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| Thread: Ufos and Aliens |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted October 13, 2016 05:36 PM |
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artu said:
But even if such a civilization exists and they did visit us, it would then be something grand...
So you dismiss "they would know the impact on us "live for shopping-earthlings" 
If they exist and came here I think that higher-intelligence would do a quick survey.
1. They kill themselves
2. They kill their water
3. They kill their soil
4. They kill fresh air
5. And they kill each other.
I doubt they would "park and mingle."
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 13, 2016 05:43 PM |
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I'm not saying they would love us and we'd have a party right away. It would be something completely different than the existing stories, though.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted October 13, 2016 06:41 PM |
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I am of the Stephen Hawking view that they would conquer us. No alien that could cross light years that fast would waste their time abducting rednecks, or just randomly buzzing around this unimportant planet.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted October 13, 2016 07:27 PM |
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Well would we conquer them if the roles were reversed?
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 13, 2016 08:23 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 20:26, 13 Oct 2016.
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Stanislaw Lem has some genius thoughts on the matter of human-alien relationships which I like to remind to people when they start saying what aliens mind is, what will it do and how will we treat it (and I strongly recommend to everyone to read Solaris):
Quote:
We take off into the cosmos, ready for anything: for solitude, for hardship, for exhaustion, death. Modesty forbids us to say so, but there are times when we think pretty well of ourselves. And yet, if we examine it more closely, our enthusiasm turns out to be all a sham. We don't want to conquer the cosmos, we simply want to extend the boundaries of Earth to the frontiers of the cosmos. For us, such and such a planet is as arid as the Sahara, another as frozen as the North Pole, yet another as lush as the Amazon basin. We are humanitarian and chivalrous; we don't want to enslave other races, we simply want to bequeath them our values and take over their heritage in exchange. We think of ourselves as the Knights of the Holy Contact. This is another lie. We are only seeking Man. We have no need of other worlds. A single world, our own, suffices us; but we can't accept it for what it is. We are searching for an ideal image of our own world: we go in quest of a planet, a civilization superior to our own but developed on the basis of a prototype of our primeval past. At the same time, there is something inside us which we don't like to face up to, from which we try to protect ourselves, but which nevertheless remains, since we don't leave Earth in a state of primal innocence.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted October 13, 2016 10:20 PM |
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OhforfSake said:
Well would we conquer them if the roles were reversed?
I have no doubt at some point we would try.
Zenofex said:
Stanislaw Lem has some genius thoughts on the matter of human-alien relationships which I like to remind to people when they start saying what aliens mind is, what will it do and how will we treat it (and I strongly recommend to everyone to read Solaris):
Quote:
We take off into the cosmos, ready for anything: for solitude, for hardship, for exhaustion, death. Modesty forbids us to say so, but there are times when we think pretty well of ourselves. And yet, if we examine it more closely, our enthusiasm turns out to be all a sham. We don't want to conquer the cosmos, we simply want to extend the boundaries of Earth to the frontiers of the cosmos. For us, such and such a planet is as arid as the Sahara, another as frozen as the North Pole, yet another as lush as the Amazon basin. We are humanitarian and chivalrous; we don't want to enslave other races, we simply want to bequeath them our values and take over their heritage in exchange. We think of ourselves as the Knights of the Holy Contact. This is another lie. We are only seeking Man. We have no need of other worlds. A single world, our own, suffices us; but we can't accept it for what it is. We are searching for an ideal image of our own world: we go in quest of a planet, a civilization superior to our own but developed on the basis of a prototype of our primeval past. At the same time, there is something inside us which we don't like to face up to, from which we try to protect ourselves, but which nevertheless remains, since we don't leave Earth in a state of primal innocence.
True enough I cannot know how a differently evolved species would think. I can, however, take an educated guess that the minute "human" becomes a solid enough in-group and, post alien life, it would. We will project our natural out-group shunning tendencies onto the aliens. Also, he talks about humans as if we have some kind of collective reason for expansion which is not true and likely never will be.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 13, 2016 11:35 PM |
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Gryphs said:
Also, he talks about humans as if we have some kind of collective reason for expansion which is not true and likely never will be.
All species are driven by a desire for expansion. Expansion means a higher chance of survival of the species as a whole, as it brings more resources within reach to do so. Resources on the planet are limited; as soon as efficient opportunities present themselves to harvest or gather those limited resources from another location, mankind will look into taking those opportunities. Just take a look at how some third world countries have been (and still are, in a number of cases) exploited for valuable minerals and oil, at the expense of the local population.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted October 13, 2016 11:45 PM |
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What you just mentioned are personal motives not a species wide desire. Not everyone will want to push the frontier, and those who do will certainly not have the same view of it as each other. How we act in regards to meeting aliens will likely be context dependent and will also depend on the personal goals of those who will be "leading the charge".
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 13, 2016 11:50 PM |
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Last thing I'm going to say on the archives I found.. Ive even traced some of these entities to date 1988 which is like
Close to the pioneering times of the Internet ...
Is when I first found that link thanks to the quote that came to mind, the page was a lot longer, and they had profound names. Beautifully profound names.
Well that's that then.
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What are you up to
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blizzardman
Known Hero
Gay as an Easter Basket
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posted October 14, 2016 12:42 AM |
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Hawkings opinion is that "we should keep our heads low" (when it comes to communicating with alien life) because he assumes aliens would be a bunch of dicks like he is. Not in that they would conquer us the way that white people conquered less advanced civilizations, but that they would see how savage and evil we are, and they would either raze us or police us. In other words: really, really, really smug extraterrestrials.
It's borderline misanthropy. Any alien life out there would presumably experience the same social upheavals & injustices that we do, and that doesn't mean the 1st thought that would pop up in their head is "Conquer", and even if they did decide to police us, that may or may not be a bad thing. If an alien government has a better record of respecting & managing the welfare of its citizen than a less far along human government, and if they put forward the offer, I would render them my civil consent of rule. That's just me. If they just want me for my body, then I guess I'm doomed either way.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 14, 2016 01:30 AM |
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blizzardman said:
If they just want me for my body, then I guess I'm doomed either way.
Don't worry, I'm sure any alien would be proud and more than happy to put the ring on your finger.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted October 14, 2016 10:27 PM |
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I heard a brief bit recently about a new book where we make it to some planet and it's we Earthlings that are the scary Aliens. Anyone read the book or know the title?
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Sumsum
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 15, 2016 12:37 AM |
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@markurr
Is it the alien guide's to planet earth ?
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Also, I have SEEN a spaceship. I was in Romania, I was like 9 years old by then. And yet obsessed with aliens and such. I didn't really believe in them, but I do know that there are yet a lot of things we have not yet discovered. But we have a lot of theories on these such as aliens. We have found bacteria on meteors, planets like Mars or such, not multi-cellular life. Yet there must be some somewhere.
At least, I believe that.
So, how did it happen. I lived not in an apartment but in a one-room apartment (not including the kitchen, the bathroom and the balcony).
So, usually, when it was summer and I got bored of doing the things I usually do, watch the things I usually watch, or play the things I usually play, I would just roam around the house.
I noticed 2 strange lights: a green and a red one out of my balcony. Of course, I sometimes watched the stars, and I knew all of them, and their specific names. Though, I never heard of a red or green star. Or both. So I took my pair of binoculars I found on my table. I zoomed in on whatever thing that was, and I noticed that it was some kind of floating machinery. Ok, first of all, how in the world could that happen in Romania. The politicians are stealing millions of dollars every day, so funding for military and such makes no sense. Anyway, the machinery had clear glass around it, it was black, and it had some kinds of visible circuits.
That night I had a nightmare, where I dreamt that aliens attacked us, and they used the same types of spaceships but on bigger scales. Aaaand I also jumped out of my balcony's window in my dream. And survived. So yeah, really logic dream
Anyway, it got stuck in my head, everyone thinks I am joking but I SWEAR, it IS true. People gave me all kinds of explanations such as:
,,You was tired''
,,You was small''
,,You saw that because you WANTED to see it''
,,It might just be a weather baloon''
But I listened to none. I hope that at least one of you will take me seriously, I mean, WHY would I invent a story about a spaceship since I am not related to the government or such.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 15, 2016 01:08 AM |
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Sumsum said:
We have found bacteria on meteors, planets like Mars or such, not multi-cellular life.
Actually, we haven't yet found any extra-terrestrial life, even single cellular life. We only have strong hints that they might exist there, given the conditions.
Quote:
I noticed 2 strange lights: a green and a red one out of my balcony. Of course, I sometimes watched the stars, and I knew all of them, and their specific names. Though, I never heard of a red or green star. Or both. So I took my pair of binoculars I found on my table. I zoomed in on whatever thing that was, and I noticed that it was some kind of floating machinery.
Couldn't it simply have been a plane or helicopter or somesuch? They feature green and red lights so you can tell they're there as well as which part is front and which is rear.
Since you mentioned stars, I assume you mean it was at night, after sunset?
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Sumsum
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 15, 2016 01:25 AM |
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@maurice
Yes we might've not found them, but we have strong evidence. Anyway, you get my point.
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And, yes it happened at night.
It was 100% NOT a plane or helicopter.
It was there for like 40-45 minutes.
Then I simply left, since I could not confirm, because my mother was too busy that night, so I couldn't convince her.
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted October 15, 2016 10:58 AM |
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Edited by frostysh at 12:52, 15 Oct 2016.
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A very interesting topic about Aliens - I like it.
This is my versions of the spotted UFOs.
1) the Aliens that is capable to reach the Earth from the a far of human's Solar System:
--- They need an enormous amount of energy.
--- They need advanced understanding of the Space-time, and Quantum Magic.
--- They need a knowledge in the Fundamentals of this Universe, the Matter, the Fundamentals in the Structure of the Reality, and so on.
Conclusion:
-the aliens like this, cannot be detected in the any possible way, if they do not want to, by Earth humans, due to the alien's advanced technologies in the Quantum Physics. Any EM passive/active detectors (such as human eyes, or a radar) will be totally useless.
-Their space ships that is equipped with a source of Energy that is capable to provide such amount of power for traveling in space-time, can easily hold a weapon that can evaporate the whole Earth to the molecules.
-The Earth human is totally harmless in the military cases before this type of the aliens. This is obviously.
-It is a very unlikely that the UFO objects that has been catch by a photographs, can be such type of the aliens.
A danger to the entire human population: The danger of this type of Aliens can be characterized by a name of the mythological creatures from human culture - The Gods, or the God.
This type of aliens can do anything that they want, without fear of the any resistance from the Earth humans side, or even a detection...
2) the Aliens that is capable to reach the Earth from the inside or a near of human's Solar System:
--- they is not need for an enormous source of Energy.
--- they is not need for Quantum Magic, Fundamental understanding of the structure of the Matter, Reality and so on.
--- They may spent a very long time for the travel to the Earth.
--- they may have some Stealth Technologies that can protect them from the active EM sensors.
--- They may have Advanced Technologies in the other branches such as Nanotechnologies, Robotics, and so on.
Conclusions:
-the possibility of the detection of this type of aliens by a humans of the Earth is depends on how many or how often the aliens space-ships will be in the range of the detectors. The possibility can be characterized as large.
-If the spaceship is successful detected, the humans can try to intercept it. The possibility of the interception can be characterized as low.
-This type of aliens can have advanced Spy technologies, such as Nano-Spy Devices, Remote Mind Control and so on.
-More likely they have Matter/Antimatter based weapon technologies.
-If their attack is unexpected and successful, can destroy something near 80% of the Human Civilization on the Earth, and almost totally destroy the Mars based humans, in a very short time.
A danger to the entire human population: Regardless of the medium possibility of the defeating of such threat, the dangerous of this type of aliens can be characterized as a Huge.
The key to victory in this case, is a detection of the any threats as soon as possible, and making a preventive strike.
3) The Earth based "Aliens"  .
--- The very remarkable - the events of the spotting UFO is become a MUCH more often in the SAME time when the Humanity have obtain the access to the Advanced Flight technologies.
--- A very remarkable - the events of UFO spotting become a rarely in the SAME time when the Humanity have obtain a Stealth Technologies, Advanced Navigation, and Stratosphere Flight devices.
--- If we are looking on the photos like this one
Quote:
Photograph of an alleged UFO in New Jersey, taken on July 31, 1952
Unidentified flying object
This flying junk is looks like it is created on the Earth! But not like the advanced alien technologies... It is a very likely that inside of this saucer, some Johny suffering from the close place of Engine to the Pilot chamber - whahhaha
--- it is a very remarkable that high density of the UFO spotted is near the possible places of the "non-public" Military Reasearch Centers in the Uncle Sam for an example.
Quote:
A data visualisation expert has created a map of the US showing almost 90 years of UFO sightings, including information such as they time of day they are typically noticed in different months. This map shows sightings per capita
Mapping 90 years of UFO sightings: Fireballs are most commonly seen, while egg-shaped craft are rarer - and Maine is a hotspot
I mean this UFOs have a limited amount of the fuel or the batteries charge, and obvious they must be in the controlled Air Space areas to avoid the intercepting, and/or non-public data exploring by another powerful state, the other risks .
Conclusion:
-combining the all of above mentioned factors, we have a huge probability of the almost of the all spotted UFOs for today is not a aliens of type 1), it is not an aliens of type 2), but the aliens of type 3) .
P.S. the danger to the human population on the Earth, from the aliens of type 3) perhaps is far more than the previous two types altogether .
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted October 15, 2016 11:28 AM |
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Edited by frostysh at 12:07, 15 Oct 2016.
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Gryphs -
Quote:
I am of the Stephen Hawking view that they would conquer us. No alien that could cross light years that fast would waste their time abducting rednecks, or just randomly buzzing around this unimportant planet.
I like the Stephen Hawking views too! He is my favorite mega-smart guy . But in this case Stephen Hawking have a poor fantasy. . .
I) The aliens of type 1), that I have mentioned, can place a Detectors that is based on Quantum Entanglement and the Advanced Space Time detecting systems, that can for a relativity short time scan a millions of the Solar Systems in the Galaxy for the Life there.
II) The Aliens can cross a 11 billions of the light years for just 1 second of the Earth time. If they can manipulate of a space-time. In theory it is possible.
III) Yep, if the Alies have such technologies - the Earth for them it is just a dirty ball of a , of a dirt . Nothin' more
Zenofex
Quote:
Stanislaw Lem has some genius thoughts on the matter of human-alien relationships which I like to remind to people when they start saying what aliens mind is, what will it do and how will we treat it (and I strongly recommend to everyone to read Solaris):
- this Stanislaw Lem have a genius thoughts that sux by default. And perhaps his "Solaris" sux too, but I have not saw/read it for myself, yet.
Stanislaw Lem never hear of the international declarations, such as this one. - Nuclear disarmament.
I mean if there advanced civilizaions exist, they can make an agreement to DO NOT touch a pity, low skilled, low Science , civilizations like the Earth Humanity . If someone will deny this agreement, the other ones can easily transform this outlaw to the space void .
And of course if the Humanity try to mess with the civilization that is weaker than a humans, the result may be the same .
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted November 11, 2016 07:15 PM |
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honestly, great posts tSar-Ivor, i wish frosty hadnt nuked the thread.
*practicing resurrection spell
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yogi - class: monk | status: healthy
"Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!" ~Ghost
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted December 18, 2017 05:40 PM |
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