Thread: Artifact wishlist/create (Open for everyone!)
NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 23, 2016 07:52 PM
Artifact wishlist/create (Open for everyone!)
This thread is made so that everyone may make their own artifact concepts, and see the ones of others to consider.
Artifacts may be made into the game, and if I make a mod I will surely see this as a good resource thread with people's suggestions, although any mod can adapt any written here.
I will start with three examples of my own:
- Pendant of Sacrifice:
(Relic) The hero gets the Sacrifice spell costing no spell points and with double his normal power. Any own creature can be sacrificed or resurrected with it. This pendant was crafted in the Heavenly Forges with the fierest white fire. It is said that whomever uses it will gain victory, but loses all that is dear to them to pursue it.
- Iron Heels
(Major) Cannot be taken off. Halves hero movement over land, but gives +3 attack, +6 def. These boots are so heavy that make a hero extremely slow, to the point his army can barely move... however, their magical properties allow to stomp over the enemy.
(if these could be taken off, players would just put them in before a battle and take them off later : P - hence that catch)
- Crown of the Storm
(Relic) At the start of each combat round, Crown of the Storm hits a random target, friend or foe, with expert Chain Lightning. The power of this Chain Lightning is equal to half your hero's power. Legends tell of a crown made by Titans to defeat the gods, but they were discovered and their unholy artifact sealed within the highest clouds...
Anyone else has ideas? I'm sure you do! Add them here! ____________
in wog we have 200 w vars for each hero, thus we can have dynamic artifacts properties, based on hero achievements. Like one shield casting a new protection for every x battles won by that hero, for example. Much more interesting and realistic than one constant effect artifacts.
Example of synergy between hero level, his artifacts and his skills.Summoning mod. Each additional magic school allows summoning creatures of higher level. Each orb increase the number of summoned creatures.
Its a nice addition but it's not strictly necessary to make useful artifacts, two of the three artifacts I have made have a constant effect which is not static but actually scales up with hero power - The spell remains the same, but the power of it depends on the hero. Having very widely extended effect synergy everywhere makes the game much unpredictable if you take into account many of those artifacts + complex skills + commanders.
Of course you are right in a sense:
There are also many common artifacts which are too dull for my liking as well in the original games. Such are as the ones that only give +some luck/morale always, or the ones that just do +x atk/+x def with no other effects.
Also artifacts which give you just immunity to one spell are dull and mostly useless (only against heroes with that specific spell and that want to use it!)
To me a good artifact must have the next properties:
- Useful (always under normal circumstances)
- Iconic (not as in ubisoft )
- Memorable
Too complicated artifacts may be very useful, but defeat the Iconic and Memorable prerequisites part, which is what makes WOG skills and artifacts not memorable/iconic as compared to vainilla H3 ones.
Who would remember the Sword of Armageddon if it was called "Sword of Fire Spells" and gave you the ability to cast a different fire spell and get different bonuses according to your skills and battles won? While probably this would be funny to play, hardly anyone would have a seared memory of such a chimerical object.
Another artifact of the "Simple yet effective" kind I would invent would be this:
- Book of the Elementals
(Combination artifact, misc. slot)
You get the four Elemental Summoning spells, they summon Upgraded Elementals, and you can use them all in the same combat with no restriction.
It would be made from the "Champter of Wind", "Chapter of Earth", "Chapter of Water" and "Chapter of Fire", each a minor artifact giving one of the corresponding common Summon Elemental spells.
Lore: This book is made from many chapters found all over the Elemental Realms - it was separated so no Elemental Lord could win the battle against the others.
The power of these spells scale as normal with Magic secondary skills and Magic Power of the hero - yet, the artifact function doesn't have to be different, changing, or complicated for this to happen, making it effective according to the situation nonetheless, while also iconic and memorable because of a single, unforgettable effect.
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NimoStar said:
Who would remember the Sword of Armageddon if it was called "Sword of Fire Spells" and gave you the ability to cast a different fire spell and get different bonuses according to your skills and battles won? While probably this would be funny to play, hardly anyone would have a seared memory of such a chimerical object.
keep in mind that Heroes 2-3-4 are rather very old games and most of recent games have runes/artifacts/skills (was playing the other day Titan's Quest then its sequel, Grim Dawn) or even creatures which often have increased effects/actions, depending on difficulty level, or/and hero class or level and so on. Personally I would love to see objects with properties that we can unlock during the game (at infinite, why not), I prefer that to 150 crap artifacts who do nothing good but charge the memory.
In my opinion, the constant flaw those TBS games have is that the progression gets slower after middle game and nothing can compete with a correctly build hero with a powerful army (not mentioning the invincible H4 potential hero). So for me at least, the only way to have a next "fantastic" Heroes game is to allow everything in the game to scale, to be modified and acquire additional properties dependent on your actions. Open the door to player driven customization, so every game becomes unique. But not too many neither, because as we observed, games offering a vast variation are often those where we find the best pattern and synergies rather fast, then stick to only one build because is clearly the best.
I would prefer an Heroes game with 12 real useful skills and pick 8 from, than 54 where we we still have only 12 useful and all the others crap.
I only remember something like that in H4, "necromancy ward" spell (but Life Magic could still resurrect).
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Well, the problem there is that the skills aren't correctly balanced, not the number of functions.
If Mysticism gave you +1 mana per day per point of Knowledge, it would be a useful skill. As it doesn't scale, it is not. But Offense and Armorer DO scale, for example, as do creature specialties.
So the concept of scaling was there, it just wasn't implemented properly.
It is best that each skill has one defining function, than to have three or four unrelated, seemingly random functions, as they often do in WOG, which I think is a flaw. You go walking and out of nothing, popups for found resources with Scouting! All the time.
I think the way this was handled in h4 was best: They recognized Scouting was a sort of weak skill, so they added extra *related* functions such as be able to see the size of the enemy army precisely, get more info from the adventure map, and see stealth creatures and heroes. Not randomly get resources while walking trough the map, which stutters gameplay and adds unnecesary complexity and randomness, which is more often than not bad design (what if the map creator didn't even intend you to have those resources?).
So, good game design strives for depth, not "width", of gameplay. Depth creates infinite combinations, width gives you infinite stuff. Excessive wogification creates ultra-width features, but they don't have depth - everything becomes inconsistent, fickle, capricious, and unpredictable. H3 was popular because of it's simplicity, yet depth. There's only 32 pieces and 64 squares in a game of chess, and very simple rules but the combinations and strategies are endless, so many not even supercomputers have calculated them all yet. But Chess is a popular, professional game. As well as H3 tournaments were/are popular. Why can't WOG tournaments be played competitively in a regular basis? Too much randomness, not streamlined, inconsistent features.
Don't get me wrong: For custom builds, script support and all the potential extra features are great! But its just that, a mod of infinite mods. Not a finished game on itself.
So, to com back to the original point, artifacts can easily be scaled on a single function, such as level or primary skill, and not lose depth by it (for example, a sword could give +15% melee damage, rather than +3 attack, and as such remain useful forever). While if they have multiple, seemingly unrelated independent variables (why would a shield get extra abilities the more you use it?), gauging strenght and results becomes unpredictable and the game is too muddled to play as anything other than a show of endless fireworks with random bonuses and unlimited, impossible to remember abilities in everything.
With that being said, I think most or all "+X primary skill" artifacts should probably be reworked to become a better scalable effect (although a single one, not many, variable-depend effects for each one!). The same is true for the +morale/luck artifacts (but not giving stuff such as random uncontrolable auto-spell bonuses and the like as WOG does, as much as I like wog anyways as a "Mod of mods").
Also, many effects don't need really to scale, as they aren't "force bonuses" but rather tactical bonuses.
And as that goes: Helm of the Nightwatch:
(Treasure) Gives you the ability to see exact opponent army strenght within line of sight of the hero. (like "Visions" spell)
Cloak of the architect (relic): Gives catapult and balista an extra shot, and doubles the HP healed from first aid tent. In addition, towers while defending a town shoot double as well.
Ring of the dragonslayer (minor): Casts 'slayer' on advanced level on your creatures at the begin of battle.
Forcebreaking mace (major): Gives your hero + 5 attack and allows him to move trough the mirror force spell
Necklace of heroism (major): Whenever a stack of you creatures finish off a stack of the opponents creatures, your stack may act another turn.
Boots of the bandit (treasure): Picking up resources does not cost any movement.
NimoStar said:Why can't WOG tournaments be played competitively in a regular basis? Too much randomness, not streamlined, inconsistent features.
No one worked on multiplayer codes, so it doesn't transfer properly, that's the only reason. There are no inconsistent features, WoG is a tool, you do with it what you want and consequently what you can.
____________ Era II mods and utilities
NimoStar said: Helm of the Nightwatch:
(Treasure) Gives you the ability to see exact opponent army strenght within line of sight of the hero. (like "Visions" spell)
NimoStar said:- Book of the Elementals
(Combination artifact, misc. slot)
You get the four Elemental Summoning spells, they summon Upgraded Elementals, and you can use them all in the same combat with no restriction.
I'd like that... simple, not too powerful, nice to have.
Some stuff I wrote in other post... based on HotA stuff/balance
A new category for relic -> relic (weaker ones) and legendaries (strong relics)
New Artifacts:
Lucky Rabbit's Foot (HoMM2, treasure) - Luck +1
Lighting Rod (HoMM2, relic) - gain expert "Air Magic"
Everhot Lava Rock (HoMM2, major) - gain expert "Fire Magic" (also an item in M&M4: Clouds of Xeen)
Evercold Icicle (HoMM2, major) - gain expert "Water Magic"
Regrowing Obsidian Crystal (relic) - gain expert "Earth Magic" (Obsidian is the most powerful Material for Weapons/Armors in M&M3-5)
Charm of Shattering (major) - neither you, nor your opponent is able to cast any spells on expert level. All "expert" magic -> downgraded to "advanced"
Flask of Eternal Elements (Relic) - 25-50% [see below] of Elementals summoned by (Summon Air-Elemental, Summon Earth-Elemental,
Summon Fire-Elemtanl, Summon Water-Elemental) stay alive after battle. Percentage of Elementals staying alive are dependant on heroes Air-, Earth-, Fire- and Water-Magic Level (25% without, 33% with Basic, 42% Advanced, 50% Expert Magic). Example: Luna on lvl 5 with advanced "Fire-Magic" may keep 42% of Fire-Elementals while casting "Summon Fire-Elementals". But she has no Water-Magic, so when she casts "Summon Water-Elementals" she would only keep 25% Water-Elementals
Set Artifacts:
All-seeing eye (Bird of Perception, Stoic Watchman, Emblem of Cognizance) - for some reworked eagle eye stuff (rework the whole skill first)
Seven-League Cape (Necklace of Swiftness, Ring of the Wayfarer, Cape of Velocity) - casts expert "Haste" at the start of each battle, fastest of your units (even if its just dwarfs and dendondroids) in army always acts first in battle
Sextant of Navigation (Spyglass + Speculum) - for another +2 radius
Imperial Orb (Glyph of Gallantry, Crest of Valor, Badge of Courage) - your Moral can't sink below +3, expert "Mirth" is cast before battle (50 rounds)
Lucky Beans (Clover of Fortune, Ladybird of Luck, Cards of Prophecy) - your Luck can't sink below +3, expert "Fortune" is cast before battle (50 rounds)
Dwarfen King's Shield (Centaur's Axe, Shield of the Dwarven Lords, Helm of the Alabaster Unicorn, Breastplate of Petrified Wood) - grants "Resistance +20%" (Dwarf) and "Damage resistance 50%" (Stone Golem) to all units
Impervious Hydra Scale (Greater Gnoll's Flail, Buckler of the Gnoll King, Toxic Wyvern Helmet, Scales of the Greater Basilisk) - +10 more defense, all your towers can't be destroyed in a siege and deal +500% more damage, grants expert pathfinding on swamp terrain and makes swamp terrain native to all creatures on this hero.
New Cove Set (Trident Of Dominion, Shield Of Naval Glory, Crown Of The Five Seas, Royal Armor Of Nix) - no clue... but it's HotA Teams stuff, I guess they could find something
Orb of Elemental Supremacy (Orb of Rain, Orb of Fire, Orb of Silt, Orb of Firmament) - adds another additional 25-50% damage and lowers all enemy resistances by additional -10%
Tome of ultimate Wisdom (Tome of Air, Tome of Earth, Tome of Fire, Tome of Water) - saves 25% of all Manapoints when you cast a spell, also grants +3 Spellpower and +3 Wisdom
Reworked/Replaced Artifacts:
Orb of Rain, Orb of Fire, Orb of Silt, Orb of Firmament - lowers enemy resistance by -10% for that element (this also makes immune creatures vulnurable to spelldamage and deals much more damage to already vulnurable creatures [see conflux])
Spiked Orc Helmet (Spiked Helmet) - replaces "Crown of the Supreme Magi" -> a new missing helmet for the "Stronghold Set" since "Titan's Thunder" already is a Tower set the "Crown of the Supreme Magi" is absolete in the "Ironfist of the Ogre" (HotA) set imho.
Toxic Wyvern Helmet(Wyvern winged helmet) - replaces "Helm of Chaos" and fits better to Fortress set
Crown of the Supreme Magi (Relic) - now grants all lvl 1+2 Spells.
Helm of Chaos - grants the "Inferno" Spell +250% more damage to that spell
Armageddon's Blade - is now created by (Sword of Hellfire, Shield of the Damned, Hellstorm Helmet, Breastplate of Brimstone)
NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 31, 2016 04:51 AM
I mostly like all those... very good creativity, yet not overdone.
Only two things worry me:
Rabbit's foot:
We already have like three identical "+1 luck misc slot artifacts" cards, horseshoe, clover... it can't be good unless the four make a combination artifact to have luck on every attack :-P
Otherwise I would stick to give it a somewhat different effect, if only give it +2 luck and make it a left-hand artifact (you have to hold it to work).
"lowers enemy resistance by -10% for that element"
...very weak for such a supposedly powerful arties, don't you think? And damage spells are already weak, with this you remove the +50% damage, or not?
"(this also makes immune creatures (be) vulnerable to spelldamage and deals much more damage to already vulnurable creatures [see conflux])"
Nice effect, but still woudn't make it competitive as very few creatures have those "resist element" or "vulnerable to element traits... mostly just elementals.
And even there, people often replace conflux to make their own mod towns :v
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And how freely can those artifacts be created? I mean, if someone wants to create something more intrinsic which regards many variables in game, how far can it go?
For example, let's say this example:
Crown of the Vindictive Wind
Allows the summoning of Air Elementals in battle based on your losses. The more troops you lost, the more Air Elementals are summoned. As a probation of your fury, the use of the spell destroy fallen bodies, which cannot be raised/resurrected/fixed back.
****
Not entering the realms of numbers, would that be possible to do?
____________ "Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS Portal 2
a good number of these ideas are ones i had planned for the artifacts i was going to release in my patch. but i don't have the time to script them; and they are incomplete sets anyway. just more stuff to release in the future.
is it possible to add a "WoG Spell" to the battle?
No worry if it wouldn't be saved, it could be get from artifact, or indirectly replace some adventure spell...
NimoStar said:I mostly like all those... very good creativity, yet not overdone.
Only two things worry me:
Rabbit's foot:
We already have like three identical "+1 luck misc slot artifacts" cards, horseshoe, clover... it can't be good unless the four make a combination artifact to have luck on every attack :-P
Otherwise I would stick to give it a somewhat different effect, if only give it +2 luck and make it a left-hand artifact (you have to hold it to work).
It's just nostalgic reasons more or less. For seer huts I would add coins you may find somewhere. "Sivler Centaur Coin"... for one seerhut, "Golden Golddragon Coin" for another seer. I hate to invest artifacts there.
NimoStar said:"lowers enemy resistance by -10% for that element"
...very weak for such a supposedly powerful arties, don't you think? And damage spells are already weak, with this you remove the +50% damage, or not?
"(this also makes immune creatures (be) vulnerable to spelldamage and deals much more damage to already vulnurable creatures [see conflux])"
Nice effect, but still woudn't make it competitive as very few creatures have those "resist element" or "vulnerable to element traits... mostly just elementals.
And even there, people often replace conflux to make their own mod towns :v
I don't think it's weak, maybe to immune enemies, okay... they still have diamond golem resistances (90%) from one Orb and Element. But it's still something. You also have to calculate 50% more damage for the Orb, 30% from Expert XXX-Magic, and -10% on enemy resistance which is multiplied to the other values. I think it could be quite potent if the maths is right.
fred79 said:a good number of these ideas are ones i had planned for the artifacts i was going to release in my patch. but i don't have the time to script them; and they are incomplete sets anyway. just more stuff to release in the future.
I would go further and add some more elements like in FFTA2, the more content the better. At least dark and light magic from other HoMM would be nice. Also some new spells... maybe unique spells and elements for different towns. Death- and Blood-Magic for Necropolis and counters to that magic. Nature- and Light-Magic to Rampart, Dark-Magic to Dungeon, Holy-Magic to Castle e.g. so you may diverse the skills some more... slow could be different for each faction... "Grasping Earth" for Rampart may be stronger than "Chillblains" for Necropolis... maybe the effect is also a little different, stuff like this.
posted October 23, 2016 07:52 PM
posted October 23, 2016 08:25 PM
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cards, horseshoe, clover... it can't be good unless the four make a combination artifact to have luck on every attack :-P
