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| Thread: Can you play better than the AI if you can't reload? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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HappyPike
Known Hero
Pikeman
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posted April 14, 2002 09:10 PM |
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Poll Question:
Can you play better than the AI if you can't reload?
Lots of people say the AI in Heroes4 is crappy and not as good as the AI in Heroes 3. I don't think the AI is that bad. People should realize the AI players can't reload at all -- if their heroes got killed by a wandering stack, they have to live with it. For human players it's reload time.
I don't think many human players can play better than the AI if they can't reload at all. I have to confessed I reload somewhat often in my games...
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promenad
Hired Hero
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posted April 14, 2002 09:21 PM |
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I don't think I can. Not yet, if I'll keep playing I donät doubt that I will learn to sooner or later. Right now I'm too eager to get going in the begining of scenarios and tend to fight alot of 'very even' fights resulting in a few reloads in the first week or so.
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Juregen
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 14, 2002 10:56 PM |
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Indeed
I am still devloping the feel of what can i and what can i attack
and also when those nice Medusa kill my hero with a stupid shot
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RMS
Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
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posted April 14, 2002 11:33 PM |
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...no, I doubt I can yet...hopefully some time in the near future though.
...however, I don't use load much, except for when I come back after doing something else...except for when I make really stupid or careless mistakes...but, if I couldn't reload, those mistakes often would cost me my win, most likely.
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This space for rent.
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Vince
Hired Hero
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posted January 20, 2003 10:35 PM |
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Quote:
Lots of people say the AI in Heroes4 is crappy and not as good as the AI in Heroes 3. I don't think the AI is that bad. People should realize the AI players can't reload at all -- if their heroes got killed by a wandering stack, they have to live with it. For human players it's reload time.
I don't think many human players can play better than the AI if they can't reload at all. I have to confessed I reload somewhat often in my games...
I see your point BUT to make things fair, the AI should not be able to see the entire map and see your army composition in detail all the time which I'm sure is happening now. If everything is 'perfectly' fair to both AI and human, I can see a veteran player never having to reload.
Basically the only way a veteran would have to reload is if they genuinely made a mistake  or if by some chance they were surprised by the AI and they couldn't overcome the advantage of surprise.
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StormKnight
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 20, 2003 11:55 PM |
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Hmm...that is a tough one.
I would say 70% of my reloads are when I say "Well, I probably can't fight these...but what the heck, I can reload if I fail". If I were playing without reloads, I wouldn't have those.
Another 15% or so are because I mis-click and cause a critical blunder, like clicking a few pixels away from the target instead of on it and having my titans run out in front of the enemy instead of shooting them. If I were the computer, I wouldn't have these problems. I also don't have the computers advantage of knowing whether or not an enemy dragon can actually hit two adjacent things, or whether a certain position will really let my troops get over the castle wall.
Now, this does leave about 15% that are "nah...I didn't like how that went", so it probably would hurt to lose those, but its pretty hard to say how much.
Most of the problems I have with the computer AI doing bad are the really big blatant ones, like not picking up resources, and its stubborn refusal to budge out of castles, even when you've poisoned all the troops inside!
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My famous last words in Heroes I: "I don't know what ghosts do, but I've got a few thousand goblins, I should be able to fight them!"
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HappyPike
Known Hero
Pikeman
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posted January 21, 2003 03:58 AM |
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wow Vince, why did you resurrect an 8 month old thread? 
Quote:
Most of the problems I have with the computer AI doing bad are the really big blatant ones, like not picking up resources, and its stubborn refusal to budge out of castles, even when you've poisoned all the troops inside!
That's true. I finished playing the "X Never Marks The Spot" map yesterday (fun map, btw). My ally defeated the wandering stacks guarding the mines in their portion of the map but they didn't flag most of them! 
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EmperorSly
Known Hero
Destroyer of Liver
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posted January 21, 2003 10:07 AM |
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damn good point, pikey
would even go as far as call it point of the week...
of course I can beat AI without reloading (happens all the time in multiplayer), because AI is not WICKED. there are a few computers that are wicked -- one of them is Deep Blue, that did some really nasty stuff to... mmm... Kasparov (?), but that bugger had the whole system resources available, and thus could think tens of turns ahead. with HOMM4, most of the computing power goes to graphics and such, so the AI simply doesnt have enough brainpower available to be wicked.
nevertheless, most of us are dirty cheaters, because reloading is pretty much cheating.
*oh damn, my boss just saw me writing about computer games during worktime, and announced a salary cut. I think I must reload from yesterday...
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 21, 2003 11:38 AM |
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I think trying fights you're not so sure about, and then reloading when it goes bad, is cheating. If you don't do that, you have to put some fights off, and you will develop slower. It is like playing at a higher difficulty level. I did it that way in my last game, and it was more fun.
I do reload when clicking next to my target with a ranged attacker, so that he starts to walk. I have said before, let em make it so that shift+click = your troop never walks. But they make no more improvements, I heard. Such a shame.
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Vince
Hired Hero
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posted January 21, 2003 09:47 PM |
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Quote:
wow Vince, why did you resurrect an 8 month old thread?
Well, I like the way this message board is designed and the way it handles threads and all that jazz. The one thing that is missing is I can't run a word(s) search on the entire message board and have a list of threads that match my search. So the only alternative is to search the entire board manually for info. I started from the oldest.
I saw this thread and when I opened it, I was surprised I could still reply to this old thread.
This thread is a very common thread that someone always brings up at some point when discussing turn-based games and it caught my attention.
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StormKnight
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 22, 2003 10:19 PM |
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Reloading = Cheating?!?!
You actually start the whole campaign over when your hero gets kiled instead of going back to the last save? C'mon, be honest.
My girlfriend and I were playing Heroes IV last night, playing one of the campaigns (well, she controls things while I give lots of tactical advice which gets mostly ignored ).
In a tough fight, we neglected to blind some enemies because it looked from their movement circle like they couldn't reach our hero. They did, and killed her. She popped back on account of an immortality potion but was now in a very bad predicament, being no longer immortal and having lost the Regneration spell that was supposed to be helping her stay alive. Our first inclination was to reload, but I thought of this thread and decided we should try to win anyway. It resulted in our using some tactics we had never tried before, and pulling off a win in batle against really tough odds, which is always a bit more satisfying!
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My famous last words in Heroes I: "I don't know what ghosts do, but I've got a few thousand goblins, I should be able to fight them!"
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pepak
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 23, 2003 03:47 PM |
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Well, I know for a fact that at least the Lysander campaign can be finished without loading. On champion difficulty, of course.
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 24, 2003 03:55 PM |
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In maps where your hero has no "dead = game over" rule on himself, you can go save him, instead of reloading.
I must admit, I have reloaded once in my current game: I landed my combat thief on a small island to kill a weak AI army with a level 5 general there. But he jumped into my boat... and I had no summon boat spell.
I regret it a bit now, I could have sent another army with a boat, it was not that far away.
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EvilLoynis
Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
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posted January 25, 2003 03:50 PM |
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I tried the barbarian campaign on the highest difficulty and it is serieously hard since you have no town. You do have 2 each of sawmill and ore pit. You have 2 beserker dwellings and one centaur one and nothing else. You have to go get that cart of ore to get the town and you have a Company of Pirates and a Company of Bandits guarding the shipyard.
Keep in mind this is only the first scenario. Too win you have to be very smart and very lucky. No being one or the other is easy but being both at the same time is tough.
Plus theres like no treasure chests or altars available so you can't power up you hero at all really. Oh there is one of the camps that up your heroes speed by one and a spring that boosts your health power and defense for one fight, but thats it.
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"I am both selfish and instictive. I value nature and the world around me as means to an end as well as an end in itself; at best I ... too long to display...
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pepak
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 25, 2003 04:08 PM |
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Yep, the first map of Waerjak's campaign is hard - the hardest in Heroes 4 (including TGS), and probably in the whole Heroes series. Nonetheless, it IS possible to complete it. You just have to be lucky and/or patient (restart until you get the right artifacts - Ring of Health and Potion of Cold did it for me...).
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HappyPike
Known Hero
Pikeman
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posted January 26, 2003 09:18 AM |
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I think the first scenario of the pirate campaign is the hardest.
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 26, 2003 12:35 PM |
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Maybe they weren't meant to be played at champion difficulty.
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pepak
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 26, 2003 03:44 PM |
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Quote:
I think the first scenario of the pirate campaign is the hardest.
I wouldn't say it was easy, but in my game it never reached the difficulty of Waerjak's campaign. I could probably finish Tawni's first map no matter which artifacts I got from the beginning, simply because there were plenty of creatures and resources available, and no sizeable opposing army that needed to be beaten.
On the other hand, I honestly believe the Waerjak's first map requires a lot of luck - of course it requires a lot of skill, too, but I doubt it can be won on skill alone.
No other map came close to Waerjak's. The Dogwoggle's and Alita's starting maps in TGS weren't easy, but I would rate them at most as equal to Tawni's. In neither of them I got the impression that I have to reload until I get such a distribution of resources, artifacts and creatures that would allow me to win.
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krule
Hired Hero
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posted January 27, 2003 09:55 AM |
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AI of the computer is so weak in H4 that I could just press end turn for 3 weeks and still beat him. In H3 AI is better- I could only press end turn 2 weeks.
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Slu¹aj mater!
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 27, 2003 08:07 PM |
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What difficulty level were you playing?
And you didn't reload in that game, when something went wrong?
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