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| Thread: Heroes 5.5 Impossible Strategies |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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caracal
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 19, 2019 05:39 PM |
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Edited by caracal at 18:20, 19 Jan 2019.
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Hmm I understand what you guys are saying. I understand the blockers concept but why would I want to lose even blockers when with 9 hydras I cleared starting zone without losing a single unit. Considering dungeon has the lowest growth of units why would I want to sacrifice any for blocking. Also can you reliably break through 50 Tier7 without any losses as a might hero on week 3/4? You sure as hell can as warlock which allows you to save army for your might hero.
Regarding 2 heroes for dungeon: 28lvl on my might to 33 on my warlock, I wouldn't call it considerably weaker. Investing in warlock though allowed me to not take ANY losses until I got to the final battle. I kind of thought that if opponent is losing army on tough fights during creeping, I will be at advantage if I will not lose a single unit during my creeping.
Regarding Savage Treants over dragons: my thinking was first treants are cheaper, they have more defense than emerald dragons, even more defense with deep roots. Emerald dragons have only 40 HP more but up to 17 defense less than savage treant rooted. That defense makes them take almost no dmg. The price is another thing. How fast can you build, upgrade and buy a reliable amount of dragons compared to treants. Perhaps my mistake here is focusing on early creeping instead of a long term plan which is preparation for final battle with enemy. See the AI on hard/heroic is rather dumb even in 5.5. I managed to clear the central zone along with mine and HIS utopias every single time so I didn't care about fast town development. Only fast hero development to break out first. Kind of like multiplayer H3 I guess. I can see how lack of experience of playing against human opponents can create some bad habits since AI is predictable when you play map more than once.
Regarding building hydras day 3 as well as getting all the exp from chests perhaps I managed to pull it off only because I played that map several times and I knew it's rich and it WILL work ON THIS MAP. I guess I should not rely on tactics that are working only on maps I know and can fail me miserably on any other map. Specially RMG. I'm in desperate need of playing against other people but for now I'm switching to Impossible since heroic didn't pose enough challenge. I'll come back with my insight. Thank you for suggestions.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 19, 2019 06:19 PM |
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It's magic dungeon that causes the lack of challenge, not the lack of resources  Even necro and academy need some army to do the same thing.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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caracal
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 19, 2019 06:22 PM |
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Edited by caracal at 18:24, 19 Jan 2019.
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Hehe in other words I should practice more Might Dungeon or Might anything for that matter  . Btw Elvin I edited my previous post. What are your thoughts about my reasoning regarding treants over dragons? If you could take a look at it again.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 19, 2019 11:34 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 23:41, 19 Jan 2019.
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Not necessarily might. Magic academy/necro are also interesting to master Not as straightforward as dungeon but they can be very effective with a little imagination.
Treants are cheaper but in hard you can get dragons and castle during week 2. I don't know if it's possible to manage on harder difficulties in let's fight but I find those difficulties silly to begin with. Same with H3 impossible, there will never be a challenge because the AI is useless, you'll just make your earlygame more annoying. Ofc hard is with human opponents in mind so there is no sense in delaying the game with a slow and crappy earlygame. Also, this makes most heroes a poor choice as not just everyone can perform quickly and efficiently under those circumstances.
But why treants are not worth building before dragons: First, the amount of treants in the 'final battle' doesn't matter much, dragons on the other hands make a difference. Second, you won't always have to defend and tank, there are ranged neutrals that the treants cannot protect you from. You mention take roots but that is a lategame thing by which time the essential creeping has been dealt with. And regeneration properties as mentioned before.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Bulya
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 20, 2019 12:41 AM |
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Edited by Bulya at 00:45, 20 Jan 2019.
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Having 0 losses till the final battle is nice theoretically in first glance, but even theoretically it doesn't work. A very simple way of having 0 losses is avoiding all fights and waiting for the opponent to come to you. But this way you dont have the resources to have a decent army, as well as a good hero to fight with.
A long time ago I used to play with an approach of I'll take practically no losses which will lead me to victory. But it actually meant building the hero in a way that will make him a creep monster but nothing good for the end battle, while on top of that postponing fights and having little map control. It works great vs an AI, but it doesn't work that well vs a human opponent that may lose more then I did till our fight, but had way more opportunities during the game as he explored way more of the map, as well as way more resources, while the hero level is higher and have not only creep helping skills but also skills that are good for the final battle.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 20, 2019 10:58 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 11:12, 20 Jan 2019.
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Not necessarily true. A creeping monster of a hero that grabs middle area goodies, has a level/stat advantage and presses his advantage by rushing straight into enemy territory is a very hard opponent to fend off. And if you are a creeping machine it makes no sense that you wouldn't have better exploration or control of the map. But I may be misunderstanding since there are no hero/build/faction specifics. If you don't take risks like attacking a pack of angels/dragons on week 2 then you're missing out 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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caracal
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 20, 2019 04:25 PM |
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Edited by caracal at 20:06, 20 Jan 2019.
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Who said anything about staying in the town? I'm having zero losses AND I'm first in the middle grabbing all of the arties and utopias...STILL without losses. End result is Magic hero lvl 33 with 50 SP, Might hero lvl 28 with 40 ATT, all of the artifacts and whole army. How is that comparable to sitting in the town? I'm presenting you scenario where I can break week 3/4 without ever taking losses, doing all of the utopias without losses, getting all of the fat artifacts smashing through 100 dragons WITHOUT LOSSES and then using my whole army to fight you. Of course this kind of thing is only possible with dungeon and it can be countered like any other tactic.
Elvin you actually made me question the point of even bothering with difficulties higher than hard. AI will never be better than on hard difficulty. I only handicap myself. The thing is if we are playing vs AI there are no rules, so all I need is find cheesy tactics with a single hero for every faction that will guarantee me easy win no matter what with any town. Like the warlock tactics where I don't even build army since I don't need it to win the game. That doesn't equal mastery of the faction.
Perhaps I should really try to find some people to play against since I won't learn anything worthwhile from playing vs AI on impossible, and like you said that kind of game gravitates you only to play broken heroes with broken tactics and you are missing out on practicing some good heroes with great specializations but who have problems in handicapped scenario.
Bulya I did see you few times on H5.5 discord. We gotta play some games
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Bulya
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 20, 2019 07:45 PM |
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Let me know who are you in the discord server, or message me there.
I'd love to play a 1vs1 game.
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caracal
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 20, 2019 08:05 PM |
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Edited by caracal at 21:14, 20 Jan 2019.
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Update on Impossible playthrough.
So I just finished LET'S FIGHT on Impossible and I must say It felt a bit disappointing but as Elvin said, if it comes to warlock + stalkers creeping there is no difficulty that will make game challenging. It's the tactic alone that makes any difficulty trivial.
I started off with Raelag since I expected difficulties of some sort. Didn't bother building any army. Just built mage levels and artifact trader. Later I started developing town but that was out of sheer boredom, simply cause I had nothing to do with resources. Now if you don't know, LET'S FIGHT map has a horde of T7 to break out to get to portal which is guarded by horde of Archangels. Now Archangels are fixed and they are on both sides, mine and opponents. When you break through Archangels you have access to Utopia and underground entrance that leads to the middle of map with another utopia, spell library, pyramid and another artifact vendor also lots of stat buildings. I broke out through 40 cyclopes day4week3. Weeks 3,4,5 I cleared my utopia, my underground and everything in the middle. Week 6 day 1 I was taking his utopia while he JUST BROKE through first horde of T7 and after I took HIS utopia, the next day he broke through his Archangels and attacked me. I guess 35 stalkers looked pathetically weak on me. I finished the fight in 3 rounds. The game ended day5week6 with me capturing both of his towns.
His hero was lvl 25 shaman 16att, 17def, 10sp, 21knowl, my hero was lvl 30 something ....don't even remember with 5att, 9def, 45SP, 27know.
Summing up it seems that Heroes 5.5 made warlock + stalkers even easier than I remembered because of streamlining of the Destruction magic perks. Now I just need to get mastery of fire to get fireball and from there it's guaranteed to go for Fiery Wrath and then Ignite. In H5 3.1 you had to compete with waay more perks. Secrets of Destruction didn't guarantee you fireball spell which could mess up this tactic big time and you had to rely more on army hence Yrwanna was possibly the best Dungeon hero and Blood Furies tactic was more reliable form of creeping. It looks to me that a true challange MAAYBE would be on imabalnced maps where it would take me longer to build mage towers. There is absolutely no challenge on rich maps and if I'm correct only those are used in multiplayer. Warlock + stalkers is so OP in creeping in H5.5 thx to easy access to important perks that it is boring. I guess nothing left to do but to try different faction and train Dungeon vs human opponents who can counter warlock.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 20, 2019 11:51 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 23:56, 20 Jan 2019.
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You may also like dragon's cape, fiur had made a tote update on the map. Has a pretty hardcore early game if you want to break through the garrison and get to the rich middle ground first. Even back then we had a no dungeon rule but it's exciting to play Might heroes can perform fine too though logs and wm have a high priority.
Heritage of Deleb is similarly crazy though not very balanced There games can end as early as week 3 and every single day is nuts. Such maps are a test of not only creeping but finding optimal routes to get stronger and develop as fast as possible.
Rat race is a bigger map than the above but has the same fast pace. To keep you moving it has a script that gives a bonus to the player who captures dwellings or other locations first. Also has a stupidly powerful garrison that you can capture late week 2 or early week 3 if you are lucky and/or skilled.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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caracal
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 21, 2019 05:51 AM |
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I believe I have all of those maps except Dragon Cape. I will get to them right away.
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azalen
Responsible
Known Hero
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posted February 03, 2019 05:07 PM |
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Edited by azalen at 17:10, 03 Feb 2019.
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