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| Thread: Heroes IV vs AoW 2: strategy elements. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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CleansingFire
Hired Hero
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posted April 19, 2002 09:09 PM |
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Age Of Wonders was a fun game. I have to disagree with others here about the simultaneous turns feature. It's nice to not have to pull out a newspaper or book while you're waiting for your opponent to finish their turn.
That said, while I'm looking forward to Age Of Wonders II, I think I'll be playing Heroes IV more. It's a great game with a lot of depth. In response to the poster who said "Heroes IV is too easy", well, I'm not surprised.
There have been numerous complaints about the subpar AI Heroes IV, and NWC has promised to fix it in a future patch. The AI is an absolute joke, which is probably why you don't find the game challenging. The AI will do such things as attack when it's vastly outnumbered, run away when it's got superior forces, fail to flag mines a square or two away and simply not build up it's forces.
With that said, I don't think it affects Heroes IV too badly for people planning to play multiplayer. The AI is never as good as human competition in any game, and Heroes IV has great depth, and I think it's going to be a far better multiplayer game than Heroes III, especially considering the fact the towns are now much better balanced. (No more "I picked Castle, you picked Fortress, I win by default"). I think Age Of Wonders II will be a great game, but I doubt it will be better than Heroes IV.
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a100pieces
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 19, 2002 10:03 PM |
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HoMM 4 doesn't have good AI for certain, but so it seems to be the case with AoW 2 too. I put both computer opponents to the hardest difficulty. Emperor I think. Computer got my town conquered when I didn't have any units defending it. Nevertheless I conquered it back in few turn. The next time my town was unguarded, AI didn't even tried to conquer it but conquered some mines instead. Sigh.
The AI in the beta has been said not to be representative of the final game. They announced that it were mostly for playtesting purposes, not to show off the game.
As far as graphics go, I have to disagree, but I can respect your opinion. I find the spell effects/creatures/ and environments to be much nicer looking and lush in AoW2.
HoMM4 things look a little clumsily drawn and out of place to me.
Also, about HoMM4 multiplayer, as everyone here is banking on that being the reason they bought it, I'm upset with the game in it's current form, and if they just "add in MP options" and nothing else, that won't do much for me, and I'm guessing lots of others will not be as interested either. Like I said, I really enjoy HoMM 4, and do not mean to compare which is better on that level.
A lot of people are talking about which one is the better game. I think we should move the talk more towards the topic I intended,
the strategic elements compared between the two games. HoMM4 may be more fun, but I'm more interested in hearing about how people feel about the differences between the two games strategically.
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Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2002 01:38 AM |
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I like AOW's strategy better because it is less the "build-the-super-town-for-super-units" and more of "How can I defend my lands and race?" sort of strategy. This is not to say that Heroes is not concentrated on taking castles, but that AOW focuses more on towns as a whole group, not as individuals.
The units in AOW were a little dry, I agree. They were mostly duplicates of the main creatures of the race, and were not too detailed... I would say that Homm3 was definitely superior in this category. However, in AOW2, there is a lack of detail (no facial features) but it is highly polished, and the style of art is very fitting to the game, whereas in HommIV it looks like everything was cut and pasted. Rather than the elven archer looking as if he were living and fighting in the woods, he just looked as if he were placed there in HommIV.
I'll finish this later
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2002 06:14 AM |
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Well if they changed the names to be like homm4 im sure many people would complain and so on, however as a addict of aow1 ( great hotseat fun) and homm3 (great hotseat fun...) i beleive both games each have differences and should 14hrs of gameplay of one leave you abit tired, one switch and your happy again... anyhow my favourite part of Aow was the wide (if abit similar in some cases) rnage of high level units that you could get.. for all the races, and the different sizes of towns, it had some nice twists in it.
Why? HOMM did not invent Order, Chaos, Nature, Life, and Death. Those have been done before many times in previous games. They won't be upset because AOW2 uses those names. Otherwise they would be upset at any game that has elves, dragons, dwarves, etc..
Nothing is original anymore.
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2002 06:21 AM |
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Also, I wanted to praise Godgames for releasing a Beta Demo. This is great because it allows the devs to get feedback from players so they can make sure whatever problems they have can be addressed in the final version, and it gives everyone a taste of the game so that people who don't like it will not mistakenly buy the wrong product.
I wish more companies would release beta demos. It's good for everyone. I'm buying it for certain even if it turns out to be a totally crap game. The reason I'm buying it is because it's a MOM clone. I'm very nostalgic and will buy anything that resembles MOM's gameplay, even if it sucks and I never play it. I just do it out of principal.
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2002 02:53 PM |
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OK, after a few hours of playing AOW2.. My verdict.. I love it! I like this demo more than HOMM4, though that doesn't mean I don't like HOMM4. Admittedly I am a bit biased towards MOM, and since this game recreates MOM's gameplay almost to a T, I like it. The heroes in AOW2 are better than the ones in HOMM4. They are unique like in HOMM3, but they also have lots of abilities listed (some are passive) and some are actual combat abilities.. What I really wished HOMM4's heroes would have since they claim to have 48 heroes. And when they level up, you choose the ability you want them to learn, most of them are combat abilities.
The nodes are a nice way to get crystals (if you've played MOM you will know what I mean, but you don't need to meld a spirit to get them). The spells have excellent diversity, and simply put there are loads of them. There are FAR more adventure spells than HOMM has. And HOMM doesn't seem to have any overland enchantments that I'm aware of. Life magic in AOW2 for example can summon some magic forest which damages anyone near it (this is in the adventure map not combat). You can summon units and even a hero, and they stay with you permanently. Units you hire require upkeep, which adds another layer to strategy. You can't afford to hire too many units or you won't be able to maintain them, and they will consequently desert you.
The heroes you summon are cool, I like them a lot. In combat they are far more useful than HOMM4's +1 morale type heroes.
The graphics.. I couldn't decide which game has better graphics, but after my session I would say AOW2 looks better.. just. HOMM4 is more colorful (but that's because the map is filled with sparkling objects, locations and items), but the spell effects in AOW2 (and even effects from glowing trees and nodes) just look spectacular. The combat battlegrounds are also far more beautiful than HOMM4's, especially if a battle takes place at a node. The biggest plus is that the game runs very smoothly, even on my crappy PC. HOMM4 is not near as smooth. I was generally quite disappointed with the spell effects in HOMM4. They are too simple.
One other thing I've noticed which seems new is that in combat, you all take turns one SIDE at a time. That means everyone on one side completes their turn before passing on to the other side, and each unit can take their turn in any order. This makes battles play differently to HOMM. I haven't come to a verdict about whether this is better than HOMM yet. I will play more and get back to this one.
Archery follows some physics.. You can see the trajectories of the shots, and if one of your own units blocks the path, there's a chance you will hit your own unit instead.
Many units have abilities in combat that go beyond just attacking or casting a spell. For example, Nymphs can 'Seduce' which attempts to gain control of an enemy (male) unit. Heroes will also have learned many new combat abilities as well, such as archery, poison dagger, spellcasting, etc.. Sort of like HOMM4 but they have to learn them through primary and secondary skills.
The simultaneous turns feature saves lots of downtime. I'm not sure how it works exactly, but it doesn't seem to influence my game in any negative way, so I use it. It saves me time waiting for other people to take their turn (definately a plus in multiplayer).
Conclusion: I said I would buy this game no matter what, even if it sucked. I'm happy to say that it doesn't suck, so I'm excited now. They need to give us more maps though..
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CleansingFire
Hired Hero
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posted April 20, 2002 03:00 PM |
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Hmmmm. It sounds exactly the same as Age Of Wonders I. Are there are any significant new features in the game? Nice review, by the way.
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mtkafka
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 21, 2002 11:38 AM |
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Both are good games though I prefer the tactical combat MUCH better in HoMM IV. And the main map strategy is definitely better in AoW2 (the demo). however, as a whole, I would give HoMM IV the nod only because tactical combat has gotten MUCH deeper with heroes in a stack, casting creatures, special abilities for EVERY creature and the beefing up of castles versus a siege. (I prefered AoW over HoMM III).
Overall, the AoW games are more suited to a Warlords game than either HoMM or MOM. The only game to resemble MOM in spirit, closest, was Lords of Magic (without the RTS aspect) imo.
One thing really great about HoMM IV is how detailed and subtle the strategy is in its tactical battles. Heroes IV has really upped the bar in terms of having in depth tactical battles without being tedious. AoW otoh, still retains a good feeling of a Warlords meets MOM style overland campaign with a 'generic' feeling of tactical combat. AoW 2 (based on the demo) still suffers from a really tedious tactical engine. It feels fudgety just like the first AoW imo. But even without the tactical combat (I autobattled Warlords style in AoW), AoW2 still has a GREAT main map gameplay.
I'd say you cant go wrong with either... I'll be checking out AoW 2 when its out.
Disciples 2 otoh... didn't like that much...
etc
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted April 21, 2002 01:48 PM |
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Lords of Magic was a pitiful game. The combat was terrible, and it was so buggy I returned it. And there was only one map. And if your champion died, it's over.
AOW was much closer to MOM than LOM ever was. LOM had so much potential, but it was rushed. By the time it was fixed up, I'd already moved onto HOMM3. It did look very pleasant though, that's one point to give them. But the combat was chaos, and units were generally too weak.
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a100pieces
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 21, 2002 06:42 PM |
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One thing really great about HoMM IV is how detailed and subtle the strategy is in its tactical battles. Heroes IV has really upped the bar in terms of having in depth tactical battles without being tedious. AoW otoh, still retains a good feeling of a Warlords meets MOM style overland campaign with a 'generic' feeling of tactical combat. AoW 2 (based on the demo) still suffers from a really tedious tactical engine. It feels fudgety just like the first AoW imo
What exactly do you find about the battles that is tedious? I'm just a little confused, that's all.
I think HoMM4 has a slight edge in creature abilities, but AoW2 to me doesn't seem to have any lack of them by a long means. Also I find these two elements are pretty important to tactical battle, which you might have missed if you played it briefly.
1) You mages can only cast spells from their spell towers if you are within your domain, this adds great strategy to attacking and expanding domains. I agree this is mostly a adventure map strategy, but it does affect battles. In the same sense, summoned creatures vanish if they are not within your domain, so if someone is attacking you and you can kill their hero, then retreat, they will lose all their summoned units.
2) If you have 4 or 5 stacks of creatures, (5 groups of 8 creatures), all the groups surrounding the attacking group are brought into combat. I like this feature very much, and find it's a good way to have really large battles with tons of units.
I would say that HoMM4 has more interesting battles, because it's funny to win a battle you should lose because they block off one of their creatures  jk. I really hope they fix that.
I think as is, HoMM4 battles are impossible to enjoy for me, because of that. They do have an advantadge in having mass quantities of the same troup, which you cannot do in AoW2... which is one thing I liked a lot from HoMM.
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Columbus
Hired Hero
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posted April 22, 2002 03:00 PM |
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I certainly second the point about how perceptive it is to release a beta demo. I'll have another go at downloading it (or get ADSL or something :-)
Let's hope it helps them balance it a little better
In the first game ballistae & quick combat was a game winning strategy, unbeatable with minimal magical support until they patched it
Giants and Airships also were total game-winners
And most people did the campaigns just with the hero: a maxxed defence/life stealing hero was pretty well unbeatable(although, I'll admit I did the Homm4 Barbarian campaign with just the hero)
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phYscHo
Known Hero
[This space For Rent]
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posted April 22, 2002 04:52 PM |
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that is true, i think im gonna get the demo now before i comment, but if the combat system of aow2 is as similar 2 aow1 as it sounds, my vote goes slightly over to the homm4 side, the tactical combat seems to be better suited for enjoyable playing,
when is aow2 coming out, soon??
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I can Imagine a world without hate, a world that lives in total peace and harmony, then i can imagine us attacking them, cos the fools wouldn't expect it
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a100pieces
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 22, 2002 05:21 PM |
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It's slated for 5-31. The Demo is not meant to show off the game's AI, as it's obviously pretty poor at this point. The devs said that all that's left for them to work on now is the AI and balancing/minor patches.
Are devs from NWC would be as interested in their community, have they even registered on these boards?
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Ulfus
Hired Hero
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posted October 25, 2008 08:28 PM |
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AoW2 art is a lot nicer than H4 art.
some of the h4 art was but/unfinished like venom spawn dwelling but generally no.
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AoW2 has 12 different races.
H4 has 20+, dwarves, titans, harpys, centaurs, humans, cyclops, vampires, halflings, arab(mage), troglodytes, mermaids, trolls, angels, ogres, orcs, medusas, minotaurs etc etc
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