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| Thread: [Mod] Heroes 5: New Order |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 17, 2018 10:04 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 22:04, 17 Jul 2018.
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Good work, here are some thoughts after skimming through.
I was initially confused by the crazy stats in some of the tier 6 units but I realized they are probably meant to double as a tier 7 unit.
Some tier 7 unit damage ranges are too wide, which would make the game too random without bless or curse.
Academy
-Gremlin saboteur +67% dmg compared to master gremlin plus higher attack seems overkill.
-Battlemage crazy attack, like it.
-Djinn vizier special is better than sultan so it might be fairer to decrease their hp and resistance or improve sultans. Personally, I have set random caster to expert mastery and lowered wheel of fortune to 2 uses.
Dungeon
- I've been thinking, shouldn't minos have 10 init? Without init they are just tanks and poor ones at that. Similarly, I think that dinos and dragons could use +1 init. This is not very important if dungeon is meant to be played as a magic-only faction but its might suffers without an initiative boost.
- I love mistresses with +3 init, good way to take advantage of their invisibility special. PS it is possible to increase invisibility uses in case you haven't.
Fortress
- Berserkers are inferior to battleragers with stun. Tbh they shouldn't have that in the first place, in a faction with stun/fear bears and rune of thunderclap. Alternatively the berserker could use some passives like giant slayer and/or unlimited retaliation.
- Also, I don't see why flamekeepers should lack crossfire. It is more interesting and fits nicely with the priest theme.
- Lava dragons become more interesting with boosted liquid breath dmg AND duration. The more fires you spread, the more the battlefield changes.
Haven
- Squires and vindicators would be more fun with +1 speed/init or +2 init. Vindicators at least would feel like the classic crusaders.
- Imperial griffins 6-24? Imbaaa  With haste/bless and morale dives they can win games by themselves. Original dmg was fine, I'd even lower their init by 1.
- Thematically, inquisitors could use purge too.
- I bet that all champions die after their first charge, too low defense and too average initiative.
- Angel regeneration is a nice touch. Seraphs would also go well with immunity to curse.
Necro
- Considering skeleton warriors are so good, the archers could also get 25% magic proof and ranged protection(nod to H4).
- Archliches are no fun without a spellbook, they get blocked within 1-2 turns and then resort to half-melee attacks. Unless you gave them banshee wail to compensate? Lich masters(why didn't they name them master liches  ) could also get death cloud because, really, why not?
- Banshees without howl would be a pity. Manipulating enemy morale and banshee positioning should be a valid strategy, just improve the howl's dmg, reduction per tile and number of tiles. Is teleport assault available for necro? That would be enjoyable.
- Ghosts, vampires and wights could be faster. Up to preference really. But if wraiths are to have 9 initiative, they may be better off with vorpal blade instead of harm touch.
Stronghold
- Mauler starting hp is too little. Better to start with a higher hp and have the rage bonus be lower.
Sylvan
- Imo master hunters work better with no range penalty(and lower dmg) because otherwise they can never match sharpshooters. Sure they do more dmg from up close but it's the first couple of shots that make the most impact. Also, if someone should have a higher initiative it should be the hunters.
- Pristine unicorns should have less hp, dmg and stats than silver unicorns. NERF HARD.
- Crystal dragons with zombie initiative? Rather boring..
General
Minimum speed 2? Eh..
Spells
- Summon elementals could also become higher tier and summon elementals with tier 5-6 stats. Unless it is meant to be used for creeping and be forgotten later.
- Mass vulnerability is probably better off as a real mass instead of 4x4. Too niche otherwise.
- Bloodrage reduced points per level and rage bonus for hero attack 
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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vulcancolak
Famous Hero
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posted July 18, 2018 09:31 AM |
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First of all, thank you for your feedback.
Elvin said:
I was initially confused by the crazy stats in some of the tier 6 units but I realized they are probably meant to double as a tier 7 unit.
Yes it was the point for me. Because i always liked the "choices" and i have created my own. For example, i am planning to go Light Magic for ranger, i am thinking about Treants. Because i already gave them regeneration ability and regeneration spell and defensive light magic spells good for them. But if i want to play aggressive with Destruction Magic, i am going for the dragons or if i am playing inferno, i need to decide power (devil) or spellcaster (pit lord) etc etc. And my main objective was prevent players to get all units and their upgrades quickly.
Elvin said:
Some tier 7 unit damage ranges are too wide, which would make the game too random without bless or curse
It was another point for me. At the beginning i was equalized their damages but when i do that, bless and curse was pointless for them. Now if the player decided to strategy about bless, storm titan is better option for them (+30 damage) but if enemy using curses, he will -30 damage. Or if you do not care about light and dark magic, go for titan. 70 damage. You cannot increase, or it can be decreased by the enemy.
Elvin said:
-Gremlin saboteur +67% dmg compared to master gremlin plus higher attack seems overkill.
Hmmm yes it is and again depends.
10 vs 13 initiative makes difference. There are 2 strategies about them.
* Use saboteur for offense
* Use master for repair golems (new order mod provides 3 uses for repair) and believe me still i am asking myself to "which one"
Elvin said:
-Battlemage crazy attack, like it.
Because sometimes we can go offensive or we can find offensive items from our shop. This is why i wanted to make difference between them.
Elvin said:
-Djinn vizier special is better than sultan so it might be fairer to decrease their hp and resistance or improve sultans. Personally, I have set random caster to expert mastery and lowered wheel of fortune to 2 uses.
Hmmm i liked your idea. Let me check it. I will try because it is good idea. But the question is, let us say i made it. What will happens if we split stacks?
Elvin said:
- I've been thinking, shouldn't minos have 10 init? Without init they are just tanks and poor ones at that. Similarly, I think that dinos and dragons could use +1 init. This is not very important if dungeon is meant to be played as a magic-only faction but its might suffers without an initiative boost
You are right actually but still i don't have a good idead. They have the highest hit point for all T3 units but yes, they are poor (when we compared them with other dungeon units) but if you realize, i have decreased their requirements.
But i can make arrangement on minotaurs. Maybe i can give them initiative OR new abilities. But if i give them initiative, i will increase their cost or decrease another stats. Because Dungeon is already powerful for me.
Elvin said:
- I love mistresses with +3 init, good way to take advantage of their invisibility special. PS it is possible to increase invisibility uses in case you haven't.
Matriarchs was always better for me. This is why i have worked on Mistresses. Yes, i can use their invisibility uses but you have an idea? What's in your mind 
Elvin said:
- Berserkers are inferior to battleragers with stun. Tbh they shouldn't have that in the first place, in a faction with stun/fear bears and rune of thunderclap. Alternatively the berserker could use some passives like giant slayer and/or unlimited retaliation.
Yes i find them pretty useless this is why i have increased their stats but as i see you are requesting buff for the berserker. Actually they are good with their Berserk ability. But they have a great disadvantage. YOU CANNOT USE RUNE ON THEM and i don't know why. Actually i haven't searched why but yes, i am thinking to give them the ability or stat. Approved.
Elvin said:
- Also, I don't see why flamekeepers should lack crossfire. It is more interesting and fits nicely with the priest theme.
Hmm. I haven't worked on them actually but let me ask you something. Do you have any interesting idea about them?
Elvin said:
- Lava dragons become more interesting with boosted liquid breath dmg AND duration. The more fires you spread, the more the battlefield changes.
And i have just realized, i was forgot something. I was give them to no enemey retaliation at the cost of 60 hit points and 4 defense. Anyway, i will change them in the next version their current stats
28 def | 240 hp | 25-100 dmg
It is my bad, i was messed few data files and it is one of them.
It should be like that.
24 def | 180 hp | 25-75 dmg | no enemy retaliation
Elvin said:
- Squires and vindicators would be more fun with +1 speed/init or +2 init. Vindicators at least would feel like the classic crusaders.
Hmmm. Do you suggest "let us make one of them very defensive, and other one is offensive"
Elvin said:
- Imperial griffins 6-24? Imbaaa With haste/bless and morale dives they can win games by themselves. Original dmg was fine, I'd even lower their init by 1.
What will happens if you get curse? Personally i haven't encountered against haven player. Truth is, i am playing it against my 2 friends and none of them playing Haven. I have created balance by my own. Maybe they are imbalanced but i need to face against haven player. Or maybe you are right. Let me think about them.
Elvin said:
- Thematically, inquisitors could use purge too.
You are right. Approved. No contest.
Elvin said:
- I bet that all champions die after their first charge, too low defense and too average initiative.
New Order mod makes all of the Tier 6 units to Tier 7 but it was not possible because of the Counter Strike. And if you realize, upgrading cavaliers to paladins costs only 1 crystal (no gold) and sometimes i am going for the champions. But let me think about it. Actually tonight i will play with my friend and i will select haven and go for paladins.
Elvin said:
- Angel regeneration is a nice touch. Seraphs would also go well with immunity to curse.
If it is possible yes, i liked your idea.
Elvin said:
- Considering skeleton warriors are so good, the archers could also get 25% magic proof and ranged protection(nod to H4).
No sorry. Necropolis always was a powerful race for me. There are plenty of reasons about that and believe me it is another discuss reason and it takes too long
Elvin said:
- Archliches are no fun without a spellbook, they get blocked within 1-2 turns and then resort to half-melee attacks. Unless you gave them banshee wail to compensate? Lich masters(why didn't they name them master liches ) could also get death cloud because, really, why not?
Yes actually you are right. Ok design new Archlich for me. Tell me the spells, their masteries and mana point of the Archlich.
Elvin said:
- Banshees without howl would be a pity. Manipulating enemy morale and banshee positioning should be a valid strategy, just improve the howl's dmg, reduction per tile and number of tiles. Is teleport assault available for necro? That would be enjoyable.
Wait you mean Banshee Howl or removed ability Banshee Wail? By the way Banshees now have a life drain ability if you realize Teleport assault. I don't remember but i can adjust every ability for every hero. So the question is, yes.
Elvin said:
- Ghosts, vampires and wights could be faster. Up to preference really. But if wraiths are to have 9 initiative, they may be better off with vorpal blade instead of harm touch
I agree about vampire but ghosts are fu.......................... and Wraiths now have a double attack ability additionally
Elvin said:
- Mauler starting hp is too little. Better to start with a higher hp and have the rage bonus be lower.
In my opinion maulers should be offensive and i already gave them to +3 attack but after i decreased Bloodrage damage drain amount, i can think about them. Hmmm ok approved. I will increase their hit points because they are tier 3 but their hit points so low for tier 3 creature. Approved
Elvin said:
- Imo master hunters work better with no range penalty(and lower dmg) because otherwise they can never match sharpshooters. Sure they do more dmg from up close but it's the first couple of shots that make the most impact. Also, if someone should have a higher initiative it should be the hunters.
Depends. Warding arrows > Force arrow for me. And if i am lucky enough, i can hit 2 criticals with them. But at least their initiative should be same with Arcane Archer. Yes, i will increase their initiative or decrease Arcane Archer initiative
Elvin said:
- Pristine unicorns should have less hp, dmg and stats than silver unicorns. NERF HARD.
But they have a great disadvantage. Unicorns and Silver Unicorns have a magic resistance aura but they don't. This is why i have improved their stats actually.
Elvin said:
- Crystal dragons with zombie initiative? Rather boring..
It is one of my weird changes. But crystal dragon is the only unit with 10 speed, and he has 2x defense against emerald dragon and +33% hit point. But everything comes with costs (7 initiative) personally i am using them and 36 defense and 240 hit point so difficult to kill if your opponent don't have much attack.
Elvin said:
- Summon elementals could also become higher tier and summon elementals with tier 5-6 stats. Unless it is meant to be used for creeping and be forgotten later.
Summon Elementals was weak spell for me. I have improved it few versions before but it was powerful. This is why i have decided to decrease it's circle 4 to 3 but if you have a great idea, i even can lift it as circle 5 too but if i do that, i need to rebalance all elementals and i need to change ring of summoning (or i can lift it to relic and summon elementals spells could be very useful) you have me good idea actually
Elvin said:
- Mass vulnerability is probably better off as a real mass instead of 4x4. Too niche otherwise.
Yes you are right but i don't know how to do. Let me know if you know how can i do.
Elvin said:
- Bloodrage reduced points per level and rage bonus for hero attack
Yes i have realized there is feature but it is not using in the game.
Thank you for your review again and have a nice day dear Elvin
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 18, 2018 03:47 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 15:53, 18 Jul 2018.
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Elvin said:
-Djinn splitting
Effect duration decreases but often worth buying more artifacts, skipping a stack and splitting djinns. Or archmages.
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- Invisibility
You have probably seen how units have three brackets that say something about spell points. The middle one tends to be set at 1. If you change it to 2 or 3 they can use their special ability as many times. You can do with with demon explosion, titan storm, invisibility, wheel of luck and so on.
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- Berserkers
Sure you can use runes on them. Either you are missing something or you accidentally changed their faction in the unit file.
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- Flamekeepers
Depends. On my duel map all priests have crossfire, with one having an earth theme(stoneskin+landmine) and two a fire theme(one fireball+haste, the other firewall+bless). Since you cannot have 3 upgrades on normal maps, you could mix up a bit.
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- Lava Dragons
No retaliation is a HUGE buff. Not to be treated lightly, even if you sacrifice a lot for hp for it.
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- Squires/Vindicators
They already are defensive or offensive, just from their abilities. With +1 speed/init they can join the fray faster. Originally, it would take a while for the vindicators to reach enemy lines unless you used teleport. And more speed for squires helps them utilize their special more offensively but also follow allies to shield them easier.
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- Archliches
I kept archliches with suffering/curse/decay and gave master liches animate dead and arcane crystal(which works wonderfully with death cloud ^^). Wanted a theme of debuffer and summoning support to avoid overlapping. You could make one an ice destructive caster but I always saw necro as a faction that does things over time.
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- Banshees Wail
Yes, meant wail. Using it with teleport assault will give your friends a surprise they won't forget for years to come 
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- Mauler hp
Was not suggesting an arbitrary boost. Originally they had 12hp and lvl 1 rage gave 5hp, yes? They could start at 15 and get 2 from rage. I have set them up so that one has 25% more dmg and the other 25% more hp.
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- Master Hunters
Force arrow doesn't just displace, it reduces enemy defense. The unit's real damage is higher than shown, split a stack in two and see how much each deals against a common target. Luck or avenger is not a factor in favour of two shots, it's the same on average.
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- Pristine unicorns
When you face a non dark/destructive faction they are going to be game-breaking with those stats. Even with nerfed buffs, they will be duplicating everything the heroes or units cast on expert and in a few turns they can be carrying plenty of buffs with long durations.
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- Summon elementals
Up to preference really. Changing stats and tiers can be a creative process that you don't have time for. I have the spell at lvl 4 and it summons tier 6 elementals which is fine. Only reduced number of shots for fire elemental to 5(because of fire warriors), tweaked water elemental mana so that it can either use a frost ring or two icebolts and increased minimum initiative to 11(with air elem at 15). Meaty and fast enough to be a threat.
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- Mass vulnerability
I think the spell file says something like area of effect that you can set as yes or no. Check what mass vulnerability has and try the opposite. You can set all mass spells as 4x4 and vice versa. Only works for mass spells, not for ie vampirism, regeneration or sorrow.
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- Caster units
Something else, you can give casters some hero abilities(like banshee howl) and even mass spells. My seraphs for instance have mass bloodlust along with divine vengeance 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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vulcancolak
Famous Hero
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posted August 31, 2018 11:21 AM |
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Version 2.2 is released. Check the first post for the changelog.
Elvin i will just start to check your suggestions. Version 2.2 was almost finished before your suggestions.
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vulcancolak
Famous Hero
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posted November 21, 2018 01:33 PM |
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Version 2.3 released with major changes (Bye bye logistics) and russian language pack
Edit: Many months have been passed and still we don't have any players. We are looking for players. If we can't find, i will put this mod in my "unsuccesful modding" history and abandon project.
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vulcancolak
Famous Hero
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posted February 18, 2020 07:18 AM |
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Hello everyone after more than a year. I am wondering is anyone playing New Order mod?
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lokiseto
Hired Hero
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posted April 21, 2020 03:44 PM |
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Questions about fairness
As you mentioned, your mod changes the creep system.
Could you explain how you managed to enable that "no longer encounter range and mage creeps for random level 4 and 5" is made possible?
That would be a nice feature to add on its own.
Thanks and best regards
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