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| Thread: The Next French Revolution |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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Corribus
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posted May 09, 2017 12:31 AM |
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The Next French Revolution
On the radio today someone called Macron's recent victory "the next French revolution". I wonder what the Europeans here think about that. Particularly, it is interesting that France did not go the same nationalist and populist direction the Britain and the US has recently gone. Why is that... and what are the implications of this for the EU?
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Maurice
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posted May 09, 2017 01:06 AM |
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While Le Pen only brings up problems and no valid solutions, we've seen a swing to the right here in the Netherlands too, with the elections in march this year.
The establishment simply turns a deaf ear to the problems that the common man faces - problems that they feel are being caused by overly enthousiastic flirting with the outside world and all the problems that seems to bring.
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AlHazin
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posted May 09, 2017 01:27 AM |
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What makes me smile is how Algeria is still cited in their debates. Macron saying they committed crimes against humanity and Le Pen saying we worth nothing as we did achiebe nothing since independence. I wonder if it has any importance actually, putting aside immigration.
Says much about the true elements of politics imo, she doesn't stand because there's a little credibility, not enough. Economically, doesn't stand. International policy, lack of realism. You're no more in that world where you could close your country to everyone outside, when you are a superpower.
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verriker
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posted May 09, 2017 01:28 AM |
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speaking as a British person I can only speak for Britain, simply British culture is very arrogant and toxic,
Britain (especially England) believes it is much more significant than it actually is centuries of historical pomp and self-propagandizing, we have a very inept Labour Party which (mostly due to the way it is set up) just plain lacks charismatic leadership, which opened the door for our ****-eating conservative elite (probably the most elite and up their own bum conservatives in the world) to get into power, from where they were able to hold a schoolboy pissing contest with each other and literally have a bet like remedial schoolchildren that the population would not be so stupid to shoot itself in the foot so badly (the whole Britain Exit referendum was really to give conservative leader Cameron an ego boost so he could feel on top of the world and backfired in his face spectacularly) lol
because the Conservatives/Tories have been able to screw several generations out of a good education with their get rich quick cycle of ignorance, we have a lot of masses of aggressively stupid people who are brainwashed and will eat up whatever the propaganda tabloids or numpties like Boorish Johnson and Nigel Farage tell them, highly outmoded imperialistic nationalistic rubbish which is blatantly against their own interests mainly, thus like turkeys voting for Christmas they vote for the Tories instead of Labour or others, which leads to the dismantling and destruction of our NHS, our quality of education, our economy, our fundamental human rights and our future potential so that the Tories have more money in the pocket lol
it does not help at all that the EU is very unoptimized and does not succeed at all to paint a friendly or compelling image for itself which can sell it to the common peasant even though it has actually bent over backwards to contribute to Britain,
of course there are some who legitimately disagree with the EU philosophically for rational reasons, but believe me that for the most part it is to blame on irrational uneducated morons who do not actually know what they are voting for and are a product of our corrupt society lol
thankfully my country Scotland did not vote to leave the EU and thus we have an opportunity to get off of the sinking ship, with any luck my Celtic countrymen will be smart to dodge that bullet using the upcoming Second Independence Referendum although you obviously never know these days cheers lol
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artu
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posted May 09, 2017 01:29 AM |
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Frankly, I don't know much about Macron and haven't heard of him before these elections but I'm glad France didn't elect La Pen, following the trend of Trump, Putin, Erdogan etc.
The problem is, the left has still not revived and they have no actual alternative system since the collapse of communism, so the "new left" mostly focuses on sensitivities which are (multi)cultural and environmental, which is not bad but it doesn't relate to working and lower-middle class people and without an actual left, they feel their issues are unaddressed and channel all the rage to nationalist/conservative populism, which is crap. A gap in this is not a bad thing but I wouldn't go as far as calling it "the second French Revolution." It's historical impact would be nothing comparable to that. France itself is not a trend maker anymore, anyhow.
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Gryphs
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posted May 09, 2017 01:49 AM |
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Well now, France will not have an EU referendum and that, could, depending on the outcome been of significance. I do not really know if France had a real chance of leaving though.
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Corribus
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posted May 09, 2017 02:29 AM |
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artu said:
I wouldn't go as far as calling it "the second French Revolution." It's historical impact would be nothing comparable to that. France itself is not a trend maker anymore, anyhow.
A lot of people here in the states thought that if Le Pen had been elected, it would have been the end of the EU. This doesn't seem so far-fetched. If France leaves the EU, that would seem to be a mortal wound.
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Blizzardboy
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posted May 09, 2017 02:50 AM |
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Corribus said:
On the radio today someone called Macron's recent victory "the next French revolution". I wonder what the Europeans here think about that. Particularly, it is interesting that France did not go the same nationalist and populist direction the Britain and the US has recently gone. Why is that... and what are the implications of this for the EU?
Popularity for Brexit has sunk since the referendum took place and it has had an effect on French politics (and on the EU) It might not change the overall trend of Europe moving right but pro-EU sentiments have experienced at least a temporary bump.
I believe it will be more than a temporary bump as Britain faces negative consequences for its stupidity, but at this point I am obviously bringing my own opinions into play.
It's not a 2nd French revolution. France usually votes center left or center right. Now it elected a centrist. It's a significant event since the new republic of 1958 but it ain't no revolution. It is good news for European solidarity as a Frexit could easily have a cascade effect on other members.
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PandaTar
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posted May 09, 2017 03:04 AM |
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Also a bit lost regarding these French elections. Around here we are trying to clean up the political scene, sometimes something seems ok, sometimes something blows up completely; can't really focus too much on the outside for now. We have our own vol-au-vents to look after.
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Salamandre
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posted May 09, 2017 08:22 AM |
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How is that a "revolution" when they elect the same politics but in worse, lead by former minister which is backed by 100% of the same politicians from the last 30 years?
The election was exactly as expected, we had 1 month of intense hammering propaganda, given that medias are all centralized in Paris and they vote at 99% for EU ideology. The syndicates used the private database of all working class e-mails to bombard us with clear instruction for who to vote. Against. That means about 20 millions e-mails sent in the last week -I received two, while those syndicates legal rights is to use this database only when the actual government proposes disputable reforms which could affect us. 24H/24H we had radios, television and press whining "fascism is here" and constantly putting Macron's photos in first page of major news. One must understand that the common voter works 35 hours a week, gets up at 6AM, drive 1-2 hours to reach job place, is back at 7PM, has barely time to spend a few hours with family, goes to sleep and repeat. His only perception of the politics is what he hears on the radio during his driving journey or on television during his family nap. This is reality and they know how to manipulate it.
On the top of that, Marine Le Pen did an rather bad campaign, she didn't understand that her major problems come from its party image and history. She was aggressive, incompetent on economics while proposing risky reforms, then obsessive about Macron; instead of federating people under the national flag, within all the secular values declining from that symbol. Because this is why people voted for her, to retrieve their country and culture. I have no idea why she was so intense about returning to old currency, the franc, and this is what had a very negative impact on the vote issue. For my part, I am happy this is over because people became literally nuts and violent over the vote. This was one of the most passionate and equally toxic elections since decades.
AlHazin said:
What[...]
You're no more in that world where you could close your country to everyone outside, when you are a superpower.
It is Macron who accused his own country, France, of committing crimes against humanity, your post somehow says he accuses the Algerians -maybe I didn't understand. Then your second statement is a lie, Marine Le Pen would never say such thing about Algerians. Show link please.
For your second paragraph: again the tantrum about closed borders, when we know that 90% of countries today control their borders. Can you understand the concept that "control" borders is not same as "close" borders?
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Ebonheart
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posted May 09, 2017 08:30 AM |
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After reading this thread I feel everyone here has forgotten something rather important.
Debt.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 09, 2017 08:42 AM |
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How often do I have to repeat the fact that France doesn't have problems with people coming in, but people already and for a long time there?
France has had an integration problem for a long, long time. I mean, Front National has been founded in 1972 (by her father), and the party (as opposed to, say, the German AfD) hasn't been founded and growing in the wake of the CURRENT refugee and immigration wave. It's basically the permanent post-colonial-empire French-First voice for over 40 years now.
The vote was indeed no revolution, but instead has been following the usual pattern.
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Salamandre
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posted May 09, 2017 08:54 AM |
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Ebonheart said:
After reading this thread I feel everyone here has forgotten something rather important.
Debt.
The debt is always the ineffective argument because in the mind of people, a country can just borrow money indefinitely. So it is always skipped in the political debate, only one of the 11 candidates (Fillon) talked about and when he did so, he was accused of being a technocrat.
The debt is now up to 44k euros/citizen so every time the state has to pull additional expenses, it must borrow the money. The whole collected taxes can not even cover the interests of the debt. Of course there is one winner in this story, the banks.
JollyJoker said:
How often do I have to repeat the fact that France doesn't have problems with people coming in, but people already and for a long time there?
There is a principle in physics which says that if you want to get water boiling, you avoid pouring fresh water every 2 seconds or so. Actually we have an 200k annually incoming immigration from Africa, the equivalent of a small town. The immigration was always a technical tool -permitting to fulfill the gaps, now it became a moral issue and this is the problem. Before, when you criticized immigration, opposition showed you economical analyses. Now when you do so, they show you "Mein Kampf".
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Minion
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posted May 09, 2017 09:33 AM |
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Well maybe it is a revolution in a sense that a) it was a complete landslide. A massive 66% of the voters rejected the far-right policies and b) Macron overturns the decades-long dominance of France's two main political parties.
I'd also like to point out even though it is not relating to topic that Putin bet on a wrong horse in this one. Macron is absolutely furious about the meddling Russia had yet again in this election - and is taking a harder stance on them. Putin is losing friends in Europe rapidly.
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Ebonheart
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posted May 09, 2017 09:39 AM |
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Minion said:
Well maybe it is a revolution in a sense that a) it was a complete landslide. A massive 66% of the voters rejected the far-right policies.
With this logic it is like asking the world to have a vote for which country in the world is best, then have all countries but the US join together as one and stomping the US in a landslide victory.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 09, 2017 09:43 AM |
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That's because the tone is changing. In Germany, the "German Le Pen", Alice Weidel (who by the way, has a 2nd residence in Switzerland, where she pays her taxes as well) said, it was high time to throw political correctness onto the ash heap of history, which a satirist commented on German TV with, "Yeah, let's do away with political correctness and be all uncorrect. That Nazi snow is completely right. Now, was that uncorrect enough?"
As a result AfD announced to sue the guy (which will of course backfire on them).
What I want to say is, that the right is always aggressive in tone and has become very aggressive in recent years, and when they get flak back they suddenly are deeply wounded.
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Galaad
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posted May 09, 2017 09:50 AM |
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Salamandre said:
The election was exactly as expected, we had 1 month of intense hammering propaganda
A month? We had a full year of this, and it was bloody effective.
Artu said:
Frankly, I don't know much about Macron and haven't heard of him before these elections but I'm glad France didn't elect La Pen, following the trend of Trump, Putin, Erdogan etc.
Like I said in the VW, that is exactly why FN rising was needed for Macron to succeed.
Minion said:
Macron overturns the decades-long dominance of France's two main political parties.
Sadly not at all, Macron is the exact continuation of the two main political parties that despite appearances agree on everything. We would have been screwed with LePen, but don't think we aren't with Macron.
Gryphs said:
Well now, France will not have an EU referendum and that, could, depending on the outcome been of significance. I do not really know if France had a real chance of leaving though.
Frexit is possible with Article 50 of EU treaty.
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Kipshasz
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posted May 09, 2017 10:02 AM |
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Macron is the ultimate establishment toy in France, groomed and prepared for this position.
Some actually compared him to Obama in some instances.
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Neraus
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posted May 09, 2017 10:12 AM |
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Yeah, the French revolution was ultimately done to restore the king's power.
You may have whatever opinion of Le Pen, but her election would have been a revolution, just as Brexit and the election of Trump were, the sudden change in direction would certainly qualify as a revolution.
If there's something that scares me is when a politician is more prone to wave a EU flag than his own national flag, as if the EU's interests go first.
As I joked lately, the problems with the EU need to be solved with more EU!
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Ebonheart
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posted May 09, 2017 10:19 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
What I want to say is, that the right is always aggressive in tone and has become very aggressive in recent years, and when they get flak back they suddenly are deeply wounded.
All I got to say is, that the left have always been aggressive in tone and physical violence, and have always been very aggressive.
Trolling aside, both left and right take things too far.
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