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| Thread: What's people's beef with mixing sci-fi with fantasy? | |
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Fallout
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 20, 2002 02:18 AM |
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What's people's beef with mixing sci-fi with fantasy?
the following are just my opinions
Always fascinated why people are so worked up when mixing sci-fi elements with fantasy. I remember the rumor of a mechanical town for the expansion pack for HOMM3, some fans went were so worked up over it. Why are some people so keen on separating them? Is it because they feel it will 'taint' it, making the fantasy setting not pure?
To me, sci-fi is just another imaginary element to add to a setting. I love the Might and Magic series when they discover some of the enemies are from another world. Or even Wizardry series, there's magic and sci-fi elements. Even Star Wars with the 'Force' powers resembles 'magic' in a world of technology.
The Dragon Golem looks ugly, but like other posters said, it's just another type of metal golem. Then the silly thread about it breathing fire, this fantasy after all. They could've put wings on it and make it fly. And the golem is not remote control like one poster said, it's manually controlled by the red dwarves.
Maybe NWC should have an option in the game that says "enable Sci Fi" settings, that should make everyone happy 
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2002 05:25 AM |
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Quote:
Why are some people so keen on separating them? Is it because they feel it will 'taint' it, making the fantasy setting not pure?
Yes. Exactly.
Sci fi sounds too futuristic. They don't want their fantasy settings to look futuristic. When people hear the word fantasy, they usually think Wizards with long white beards and pointy hats, dragons breathing fire, elves, dwarves, humans, knights in armor, that kind of thing. They don't think about tanks and robots and other mechanical things. Those things should be best left to the sci fi or modern setting. It's fantasy because it's different, because it's not those mechanical things. To bring them together would make it less fantasy.
That's just the way I see it. I know if HOMM4 had a 'forge' town, it would get shot down and boycotted by its fans.
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Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2002 06:17 AM |
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Well said Jenova. I feel the same way. The forge town had some drastically sci-fi separation elements that would have made it an entirely different game. The units were zombies with chain-saws for hands, minotaurs with jetpacks, goblins with laser guns, ogres with stinger missile packs (like bazookas) and naga-cyborg tanks. However interesting this might sound, I would have vehemently been disgusted by it, and I would have not bought it by my own choice.
The dragon golem is rather not a shadow of the forge town as I thought, but just a bad design idea. The dragon golem on paper and in concept sounds like a great unit, but when created with the stupid dwarf and springs and all futuristic looking, it was a bad design.
Sci-fi is fascinating when combined properly, such as in final fantasy or starcraft. However, you are wrong when you say you can easily combine sci-fi and fantasy seamlessly. If you include sci-fi elements, it is pretty much a given you will have to explain the fantasy magic elements. This can be explained by scientific analysis and so on. So, what someone calls telekinesis is another person's force field, and what I call fireball might be another person's energy blast. Generally, sci-fi is less fascinating for me because it loses the mystique and rustic look of the fantasy. However, most of the time you have to either include most of one or the other, and only a slight bit of the small one. I.E. not everyone is a jedi, and the powers are of mysterious origin rather than directly explained as magic, and there are only a few creatures from another planet in M&M.
So that's the dirt on what I feel on sci-fi. In some settings and games it is successful, but in my opinion Heroes is not the game where it would work as an incorporated element. In order for it to be successful, it must be created as an entirely new game, not as part of the heroes series.
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2002 07:59 AM |
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I never liked the way Final Fantasy did the mix.. In 7 and 8, it seemed like the setting was a modern world, so the technology and sci fi seem to fit nicely, but they didn't do that much to explain the magic side of things. Actually they did, but I wasn't very happy with it.
Notice how the movie was 100% sci fi? There were no fantasy elements like knights, wizards, or magic. The name Final Fantasy was kind of ironic.
Thinking about it now, H3 expansion's 'Forge' idea as described by Darion is just ridiculous.. Not because of its sci fi elements, but because of the ideas themselves.
Naga tanks? Jetpacks on minotaurs? Zombies using chain saws? Whoever thought of those ideas should be shot. And it's not for the sci fi elements, but the way they are badly integrated onto fantasy units. A minotaur with a jetpack, lol! I'm glad the petition stopped the forge.. But then it gave us a hardly imaginitive Conflux, which is better than the Forge I guess..
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Shadow_Phoenix
Known Hero
Shadow Ruler
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posted April 21, 2002 12:17 AM |
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There are limits to everything. I mean, some mech in fantasy is not bad, actually it can had to it (remember, gnomes are inventors in almost all fantasy setings). But there is a line betwen fantasy and sci-fi that should not be crossed like the forge town would have done, and Final Fantasy does. The only reason why ff series such success was because of great plots not because of the seting.
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted April 21, 2002 05:42 PM |
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Fantasy has clear links to the past. The origin of fantasy was really imagining what it would be like if misconceptions and superstitions from the medieval times were true (like dragons, wizards, magic, witches, leprechauns, trolls, vampires etc.).
Tolkien's works were by himself stated as an attempt to give Great Brittain it's own mythology, since much was lost and neglected. And it would be stupid if he gave Frodo a go-cart so he could make it to Mordor a little bit sooner. Or if he gave Aragorn a jetpack so he could get a better overview.
So in many ways I think it is correct to say that fantasy is strongly connected to mythology, and games like HOMMI-IV, who are said to have a fantasy theme, have mostly just gathered creatures from different mythologies and "set them up against eachother" in a TBS.
These are the best reasons I can come up with (for the time being, at least) against the inappropriate mixing of sci-fi and fantasy.
Of course, no one can stop anyone else from mixing the two, I just don't think it should be called fantasy then, rather sci-fi with fantasy elements or something.
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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MadJackTheBl...
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 21, 2002 11:48 PM |
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A lot of Heroes players don't play the M&M roleplaying games either. To them, the Forge and all its technology would have seemed totally out of the blue, randomly tossed in.
I don't have a problem with mixing sci-fi and fantasy, but it's always been so badly done in any NWC game that I really think they should just stick to fantasy. As they've pretty much done in the Heroes series. There are a lot of M&M fans who agree that the blasters and robots and other technological stuff are the lamest things about any M&M.
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Biff_Justice
Hired Hero
Watch out, evil!
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posted April 23, 2002 06:27 AM |
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The main reason I have a problem with it in most cases, is because it is very poorly explained how the two can exist together. After all, if technology can duplicate anything magic can, and magic is very difficult - taking a lifetime to study, while technology is readily available to the masses, why on Earth would anyone use magic?
Occasionally someone does it right. Arcanum is a computer RPG that made the mix wonderfully (technology was just beginning to really get rolling, but using it interfered with magic in the world - so the "new magic" of science is causing the "old magic" practitioners to become very upset). Star Wars is another good example of handling it well - the original trilogy, anyway. I have a harder time buying it in the second trilogy.
The Final Fantasy games and most Japanese animation that combine the two handle it horribly. Just throwing the two together for no good reason and just expecting us to buy it.
My two cents....
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted April 23, 2002 08:40 AM |
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Quote:
The Final Fantasy games and most Japanese animation that combine the two handle it horribly. Just throwing the two together for no good reason and just expecting us to buy it.
And it seemed to work too..
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Ursula
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 23, 2002 09:12 AM |
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I was just wondering....
Why walk around with a stupid metal sword,
When you can have a thermo nuclear reactor driven zap-o-killa gun thingy.
Its a bit wierd to see those two against eachother.
Doesnt mix in time, and it doesnt maken sense in some way
Its sorta like when youre real good at civilisation
it becomes possible to loose a B2 stealth bomber against indians with arrows
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Follow me said the wise man, and walked behind.
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted April 23, 2002 12:24 PM |
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As opposed to when you suck at civ, you what... can't lose?
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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Ursula
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 23, 2002 12:58 PM |
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Quote:
As opposed to when you suck at civ, you what... can't lose?
No not like that
You have to be good, to get the B2 pretty fast so there are still indians around you can bomb.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=6]Library Of Enlightenment[/url], to discuss Heroes 4, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=17]War Room Of Axeoth[/url].
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Follow me said the wise man, and walked behind.
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