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| Thread: AI's skill priorities |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 10, 2018 09:54 PM |
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There was no such a goal as to make the most advanced AI possible. Actually, AI in most games has two legs: a basic code to not look stupid and scripts to look clever, whenever the basic code looks stupid. My point is that it's not rational to make the most advanced AI, when you don't even know whether your game will be selling well.
So, if a game is selling well, then there's a little chance that developers will be busy improving their AI. Speaking of H3, there's our only hope that the current AI will be improved by fans.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 10, 2018 10:03 PM |
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Well I made AI much better in combat, by changing AI Values of spells. If we wanted we could even make it spam Armageddon and Implosion...
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 11, 2018 02:50 AM |
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I even remember to read that the first AI was too good so the marketing team forced them to rewrite it with some limitations.
If you feel you don't have a chance you will not replay the game over and over.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 12, 2018 01:48 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
the_strongest_spell_efficiency_delta() is quite a complex function which operates with the AI_Values of spells. In short, it calculates the difference between:
a) the efficiency ("power") of the strongest spell, currently known to a hero,
and
b) the potential efficiency of the strongest spell with an offered secondary skill.
In general, it may be two different spells.
This whole post is great work, +QP assigned!
I guess you found these in the source code? Can you provide memory locations for (some of) these? I'm curious to explore this myself at some moment.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 12, 2018 05:33 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 17:38, 12 Oct 2018.
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Thanks. But this work is not done yet. For example, I don't know what happens when AI has to choose from two new skills, and how to calculate Estates value. Currenty I'm parsing the function which calculates the efficiency ("power") of spells.
Quote:
Can you provide memory locations for (some of) these? I'm curious to explore this myself at some moment.
See sub_52C0B0 and sub_524B70, the switch which evaluates a secondary skill.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 12, 2018 09:01 PM |
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Thanks. Now to save that for prosperity  .
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted October 13, 2018 03:22 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 22:59, 13 Oct 2018.
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Quote:
I even remember to read that the first AI was too good so the marketing team forced them to rewrite it with some limitations.
If you feel you don't have a chance you will not replay the game over and over.
Doubt so, if such was true @good ai@ would have at least been put on King difficulty. Whereas actually all AIs have the same basic code, higher difficulty just has less restrictions.
Horse and Peon level AIs are dumb on purpose, I don't remember if Rook AI is handicapped, but King and Queen AI are the same AFAIK and still have dumbness (such as bad AI values for skills as displayed here); one of the things that changes is that they buiold town buildings whenever they can instead of having artificial delays in days.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 13, 2018 08:32 AM |
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NimoStar said:
one of the things that changes is that they buiold town buildings whenever they can instead of having artificial delays in days.
Except there are some buildings they never build, no matter the difficulty. AI would be much better if it build Mana Vortex, Portal Of Summoning, Lighthouse etc.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 13, 2018 01:39 PM |
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NimoStar said:
Whereas actually all AIs have the same basic code, higher difficulty just has less restrictions.
What I remember to read was that AI priorities and movement calculations were so perfect it would always be at your door day 7, with full army.
Now, how many times have you saw one hero picking a resource or taking a minor bank and ending the turn one or two squares away from your door?
Plus, I'm not saying it happened, I'm saying they said it happened.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted October 13, 2018 11:01 PM |
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Quote:
Except there are some buildings they never build, no matter the difficulty. AI would be much better if it build Mana Vortex, Portal Of Summoning, Lighthouse etc.
Yes, laxily they left out special buildings.
However seeing as VCMI can't even implement custom special buildings yet, can I really blame them that much?
Well, maybe cbecause they didn't even fix it for the expansions...
Quote:
Now, how many times have you saw one hero picking a resource or taking a minor bank and ending the turn one or two squares away from your door?
That's probably due to how getting the resources has more priority than attacking your castle, not because it was deliberately dumbed down :V
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 24, 2018 01:01 AM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 16:33, 24 Oct 2018.
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Well, as expected, if AI has to choose from two new secondary skills, or from two skills it already knows, it picks one with bigger value (the left skill if values are equal). Otherwise AI evaluates all allowed secondary skills and picks the right skill if it's among (8 minus number_of_already_occupied_secondary_skill_slots) of most valued skills. If not, then the left one.
Updated my post about values.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 24, 2018 08:15 AM |
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Thanks Alex.
You are a genius. 
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 24, 2018 12:12 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 12:14, 24 Oct 2018.
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For reference
----------------------------------------------------------
==================== ADVENTURE SPELLS ====================
----------------------------------------------------------
DEC HEX NAME AI VALUE FLAGS
NON BAS ADV EXP
----------------------------------------------------------
00 00 Summon Boat 10 10 20 20 100002
01 01 Scuttle Boat 1 1 1 1 000002
02 02 Visions 1 1 1 1 000002
03 03 View Earth 1 1 1 1 000002
04 04 Disguise 1 1 1 1 000002
05 05 View Air 1 1 1 1 000002
06 06 Fly 30 30 40 50 100002
07 07 Water Walk 15 15 20 25 100002
08 08 Dimension Door 30 30 40 50 100002
09 09 Town Portal 5 5 70 70 100002
----------------------------------------------------------
===================== COMBAT SPELLS ======================
----------------------------------------------------------
DEC HEX NAME AI VALUE FLAGS
NON BAS ADV EXP
----------------------------------------------------------
10 0A Quicksand 1 1 1 1 000081
11 0B Land Mine 1 1 1 1 000081
12 0C Force Field 1 1 1 1 000081
13 0D Fire Wall 1 1 1 1 000081
14 0E Earthquake 1 1 1 1 100001
15 0F Magic Arrow 10 10 10 10 008211
16 10 Ice Bolt 20 20 20 20 008211
17 11 Lightning Bolt 25 25 25 25 008211
18 12 Implosion 75 75 75 75 009211
19 13 Chain Lightning 75 75 75 75 010211
20 14 Frost Ring 12 12 12 12 008281
21 15 Fireball 15 15 15 15 008281
22 16 Inferno 20 20 20 20 010281
23 17 Meteor Shower 37 37 37 37 008281
24 18 Death Ripple 20 20 20 20 021201
25 19 Destroy Undead 40 40 40 40 020201
26 1A Armageddon 100 100 100 100 020201
27 1B Shield 10 10 20 20 044845
28 1C Air Shield 20 20 50 50 044845
29 1D Fire Shield 10 10 12 15 044815
30 1E Protection from Air 2 2 4 4 044845
31 1F Protection from Fire 2 2 4 4 044845
32 20 Prot. from Water 2 2 4 4 044845
33 21 Prot. from Earth 2 2 4 4 044845
34 22 Anti-Magic 10 10 15 20 044815
35 23 Dispel 3 3 3 3 040041
36 24 Magic Mirror 12 12 18 24 044815
37 25 Cure 4 4 4 4 040841
38 26 Resurrection 50 50 60 120 081011
39 27 Animate Dead 60 60 60 120 081011
40 28 Sacrifice 1 1 1 1 001011
41 29 Bless 10 10 11 11 040845
42 2A Curse 10 10 11 11 040045
43 2B Bloodlust 7 7 15 15 041845
44 2C Precision 7 7 15 15 040845
45 2D Weakness 7 7 15 15 040045
46 2E Stone Skin 7 7 15 15 044845
47 2F Disrupting Ray 7 7 15 15 040011
48 30 Prayer 8 8 16 16 040845
49 31 Mirth 1 1 2 2 040C45
50 32 Sorrow 1 1 2 2 040445
51 33 Fortune 1 1 2 2 040845
52 34 Misfortune 1 1 2 2 040045
53 35 Haste 5 5 10 10 041845
54 36 Slow 5 5 15 15 041045
55 37 Slayer 1 1 1 1 040815
56 38 Frenzy 10 10 20 30 040C15
57 39 Titan's Lightning Bolt 75 75 75 75 10A211
58 3A Counterstrike 20 20 30 30 045845
59 3B Berserk 60 60 60 60 041485
60 3C Hypnotize 25 25 50 100 081415
61 3D Forgetfulness 1 1 1 1 001425
62 3E Blind 50 50 50 50 041415
63 3F Teleport 20 20 20 20 041011
64 40 Remove Obstacle 1 1 1 1 000101
65 41 Clone 20 20 40 50 041011
66 42 Fire Elemental 50 50 100 150 080001
67 43 Earth Elemental 50 50 100 150 080001
68 44 Water Elemental 50 50 100 150 080001
69 45 Air Elemental 50 50 100 150 080001
----------------------------------------------------------
=================== CREATURE ABILITIES ===================
----------------------------------------------------------
DEC HEX NAME AI VALUE FLAGS
NON BAS ADV EXP
----------------------------------------------------------
70 46 Stone Gaze 1 1 1 1 00101C
71 47 Poison 1 1 1 1 00101C
72 48 Bind 1 1 1 1 001018
73 49 Disease 1 1 1 1 00101C
74 4A Paralyze 1 1 1 1 00101C
75 4B Age 1 1 1 1 00101C
76 4C Death Cloud 1 1 1 1 000018
77 4D Thunderbolt 1 1 1 1 000218
78 4E Dispel Helpful Spells 1 1 1 1 000018
79 4F Death Stare 1 1 1 1 000018
80 50 Acid breath 1 1 1 1 000018
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 24, 2018 04:43 PM |
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You can see that it's not half as hard as it might seem to improve the way how AI picks secondary skills. All you need is to replace AI estimates with your own. In simplest value-based scenario you can even solve this with just hex-editing.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 24, 2018 04:53 PM |
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Hmm dont know if I wanna mess with that, but it is at least interesting to see how it works.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 26, 2018 04:21 PM |
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AI and University
If AI hero decides to visit University, he'll try to learn all available secondary skills there at once, as if they are offered as new skills at level-up; provided, of course, AI player has enough gold to pay for them. AI hero cannot learn, for example, just one skill of four, if all four are among his most valued skills.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 26, 2018 06:30 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
AI and University
If AI hero decides to visit University, he'll try to learn all available secondary skills there at once, as if they are offered as new skills at level-up; provided, of course, AI player has enough gold to pay for them. AI hero cannot learn, for example, just one skill of four, if all four are among his most valued skills.
This begs a few additional questions:
- What happens if the Hero is eligible for more Skills, but the faction doesn't have enough Gold to buy them all?
- Will it return to it at a later moment to get the rest, or will it not buy anything at all?
- Will it visit it just once and consequently ignore it, or keep visiting it?
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 26, 2018 07:36 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 20:48, 26 Oct 2018.
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Quote:
- What happens if the Hero is eligible for more Skills, but the faction doesn't have enough Gold to buy them all?
He learns those with highest values until he runs out of gold, provided they are among (8 minus number_of_already_occupied_secondary_skill_slots) of most valued skills.
Quote:
- Will it return to it at a later moment to get the rest, or will it not buy anything at all?
I think, he will return*, if the sum of secondary skill values at University isn't zero too low** (he calculates it before visiting, as he knows what skills are inside), and he has no other objects with higher priority to visit.
Quote:
- Will it visit it just once and consequently ignore it, or keep visiting it?
He won't visit* University again if he already knows all the skills there, or if their values are 0 too low.
* More tests are needed, as I'm not sure if the value of University itself is zero.
** Well, actually the_strongest_spell_efficiency_delta() cannot be less than 10. That means magic skill values can be greater than 0, even if a hero doesn't know any spells.
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chucktar
Hired Hero
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posted May 16, 2019 01:24 AM |
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Thanks for extra informations.
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longtry
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 26, 2019 06:37 AM |
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AlexSpl said:
This is how it's intended to be. Players should be satisfied  No one would play the game where you cannot beat the AI. Look at chess. To beat a modern professional chess AI is quite an achivement, I'd say.
It seems you're really interested in algorithms. What would you say to be some elements that, when added to board games, will pose huge obstacles to the AI? So that we humans will have better chance?
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