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| Thread: Mod Heroes 3 Plus |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted July 06, 2019 05:33 AM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 08:39, 21 Jul 2019.
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Heroes 3 Plus
The general idea of the mod is someway of extension to the direction, given by the HD mod, that is development of the game, including error fixes and increase in user-friendliness. At the same time the original game mechanics remains as unchanged as it possible.
The greatest emphasis in the mod has been placed on the random map generator (RMG) error corrections and on improvement of the algorithms, on which the computer players behaviour (AI) is based.
Currently the improvements are applied to the strategic map AI behaviour, to the AI siege tactics, and to the city development planning. So far there are not so many improvements and a great work is still has to be done.
The focus on the AI improvement is not accidental. The thing is, the game was being initially designed by NWC on the basis of balance “human player – AI player”. Over time, when millions of people went playing the game, the balance of powers had gone biased: AI players became walk-ons and each of 2 competitive people (or one human in case of single player) began to claim to too much map area – with all the consequences followed.
A number of secondary skills became too strong (e.g. Diplomacy, Necromancy), while the others turned into absolutely useless (Eagle Eye) or low useful (Resistance, Ballistics). Instead of cities development a play through bonus creatures – wyverns, angels, took a key value. The same story befell on a number of the other game elements.
I would like to clarify that this mod is intended both for a multiplayer game with the participation of 2 or more people and for a single-player game. By the way, participation of 3 and more people mostly solves the problems mentioned above, nevertheless AI improvement seems important. More than that, the game with 3 or more human participants is not always possible.
Improved AI is able to give a second life to a huge number of old favorite maps and campaigns, including the original ones (NWC-made).
Since the main purpose of the mod, in fact, is to create conditions for a return to classicity, external artificial rules like HW Rulez are unacceptable for the author of the mod. A restructuring of the Mage Guild is even more unacceptable. In general, it must be said that Online-format forces to introduce new game mechanics, different from original ones, or change the existent ones in attempt to compensate a disharmony originated from the Online-format itself. In the mod given a correct solution is supposed to be not an adaptation of mechanics of the game to its format, but, in oppose, a development of such formats which reveal the original game mechanics at their best. One can’t play this mod with HW rules cause of intentionally created technical limitations.
For an interesting game S and M sizes are suggested for 2-6 players and L for 6-8 players. The best roads are not recommended. In further versions of the mod, probably, would be suggested an alternative road-placing scheme – not from town to town but from towns to sawmills and ore pits as on many NWC-made maps of the original game. It is recommended to play on 200% difficulty, with a possible usage of gold and resource bonus for a human player up to the quantities actual at 160%.
The mod implements option-based approach, with setting all the options off a player would have the original game (pure HD mod, to be precise).
The mod could be installed (by simple copying all the files into a folder containing an original Heroes3.exe file) upon a game with already installed version 3+ HD mod, the latest and the most stable version 3.811f is recommended. The mod wouldn’t work with 4+ and 5+ versions. Links to 3.811f :
http://mmgames.ru/files/hmm/3_HDmod/HoMM3_HD_Latest_3.811_b5.exe
https://yadi.sk/d/0x3staJOPXpxEQ
The mod runs via its own EXE file (Heroes 3 h3p.exe), working on the same principles as Heroes 3 HD.exe file, – it is possible to use launcher, attach plug-ins, change options of both HD mod (via launcher or INI files of HD mod) and Heroes3Plus options (via h3p.ini file).
The mod allows you to play the “Armageddon’s Blade” version, either just with Blade’s mechanics switched on in h3p.ini, or additionally using an interface, which is maximally similar to “Blade’s” one. A special plug-in (and another one for fonts’ adaptation) and EXE file H3Blade h3p.exe are used for (if you play with the “Blade’s” mechanics only and don’t need the “Blade’s” interface, run standard EXE file – Heroes 3 h3p.exe).
The mod includes a documentation.
Download links:
Russian Complete version
Russian SoD version
English Complete version
English SoD version
Also separate links for documentation:
Russian
English
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted July 06, 2019 05:03 PM |
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Will you do same for Horn of the Abyss?
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted July 06, 2019 05:25 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 17:25, 06 Jul 2019.
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zmudziak22 said:
Will you do same for Horn of the Abyss?
Some features in Heroes 3 Plus already present in HotA - bad luck, RMG balance fixes.
I guess you would like HotA will have improved AI.
No, I will not do the same for HotA.
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AlfWithCake
Known Hero
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posted July 09, 2019 12:32 PM |
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Since it's a mod, I bet you'd like to post this in the modding forum — Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond, people usually look for mods there.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted July 09, 2019 04:07 PM |
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AlfWithCake said:
Since it's a mod, I bet you'd like to post this in the modding forum — Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond, people usually look for mods there.
Agreed and therefore, moved it here  .
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted July 09, 2019 05:21 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 18:09, 09 Jul 2019.
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Maurice said:
AlfWithCake said:
Since it's a mod, I bet you'd like to post this in the modding forum — Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond, people usually look for mods there.
Agreed and therefore, moved it here .
Actually it is as classic as HD mod or SoD_SP. I have preserved original mechanics as much as possible (again, deviations no more, than in HD mod or SoD_SP).
If HD mod is mod (it have HD+ option - turnes on some deviations from original mechanics) why you don't move it to "WoG and Beyond" ?
In fact, last versions of HD mod which have option for rebuilding of Mage Guild, are less classical than "Heroes 3 Plus".
It is one of reasons why I don't use last versions of HD mod anymore.
May be I should create post once again and name it "Patch Heroes 3 Plus" (in "Library of Enlightement", of course) ?
Though, "WoG and Beyond" may be better for promotion, I don't know...
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 09, 2019 06:28 PM |
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I don't remember reading SoD_Sp or HD mod having AI algorithms "corrected". So basically in such mods AI will play 100% same as in vanilla, am I right? In yours mod however, it is claimed such algorithms were changed, so game play changes. Not as classical as those 2 mods then, unless I misunderstood you.
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RoseKavalier
Admirable
Supreme Hero
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posted July 09, 2019 07:43 PM |
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You're bound to get some more views in here!
Good job on the mod, although I must say your dll entry is all over the place 
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted July 09, 2019 08:16 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 20:19, 09 Jul 2019.
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Salamandre said:
I don't remember reading SoD_Sp or HD mod having AI algorithms "corrected". So basically in such mods AI will play 100% same as in vanilla, am I right? In yours mod however, it is claimed such algorithms were changed, so game play changes. Not as classical as those 2 mods then, unless I misunderstood you.
AI behavior is not basic game mechanic, whereas rebuilding of Mage Guild (for example) violate basic game mechanics.
Apparently you don't see the obvious. Why ?
Salamandre, if you play against chess programm, do you play in chess or not ? But what if you play against human but with changed rules ? Do you see difference ?
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted July 09, 2019 08:28 PM |
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RoseKavalier said:
You're bound to get some more views in here!
Good job on the mod, although I must say your dll entry is all over the place
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demoixas
Hired Hero
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posted August 02, 2019 12:34 AM |
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I have tested this AI for several days and I could say for some reason strategic AI acts very strange, passive and I feel HOTA AI is much better, aggressive. Are Modest AI have the same AI radius as SoD?
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted August 02, 2019 05:58 AM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 16:50, 02 Aug 2019.
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demoixas said:
Are Modest AI have the same AI radius as SoD?
Ask it Modest AI author. This is Heroes 3 Plus mod.
demoixas said:
I have tested this AI for several days and I could say for some reason strategic AI acts very strange, passive and I feel HOTA AI is much better, aggressive. Are Modest AI have the same AI radius as SoD?
In fact only AI actions on strategic maps which was changed in Heroes 3 Plus are 1) behavior AI after lost of all towns 2) AI account for enemy forces both for visiting hero and town garrison before making decision about siege.
So - you can not be correct concerning bad AI behaviour.
Concerning HotA AI - as far as I know strategic AI in HotA was not changed at all comparing with original game.
AI agressivity is a complex function - AI hero types, AI player behaviour type (builder, warrior, explorer), strategic position AI on map, AI forces, AI environment on map and so on.
Probably, you simply is HotA fan. What I can say ? Original AI works good only for maps from S to L size and I promote such size in my mode. Whereas HotA promote maps with abnormal big sizes, bigger than XL. AI works poorly already for XL size. So, HotA promote very big maps, but did not provide corresponding support for AI. It is not competetive approach.
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demoixas
Hired Hero
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posted August 02, 2019 08:44 PM |
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Sorry, my mistake, when I did mention modest AI, I had in mind your mod heroes plus.
In fact, even original AI is not so bad, to be honest for me, as an amateur player, I play only for fun and enjoying it with gosolo console command. And I noticed that original or hota AI (as I play more hota than original) can handle very well Town scroll spells, it gather best troops in every town if it does have enough money and have earth expert skill. Also, I noticed that dimension doors also work quite nicely with AI if they have expert Air. This was noticed only with original(sod)/hota Ai and when I played Wog version it wasn't even close like that. And I think it's because of AI radius, bo wonder because wog AI radius has only 4096 while original sod/hota 32000. Of course, for best results need to use max difficulty.
So, in this case, would you be able to increase AI radius for your mod? I would be more than happy to test a new impact
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted August 02, 2019 09:17 PM |
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demoixas said:
So, in this case, would you be able to increase AI radius for your mod? I would be more than happy to test a new impact
Thanks. When I made mod I have read some forums and also read about "AI radius of thinking" (though up to now I don't understand exactly which measurements units are correct for this, may be it should be better called "AI area of thinking").
Reason why I did not change this value was simply huge amount of work and testing for mod - so, I simply did not have enough time for testing AI radius. So, actually I don't know true impact of this value on AI behaviour.
Of course, I would like eventually test it and introduce into mod, if it will make sense.
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demoixas
Hired Hero
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posted August 02, 2019 10:34 PM |
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Sure, let me know if I can help with any testing regarding this with feedback in upcoming versions
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted September 01, 2019 09:24 AM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 16:39, 22 Sep 2019.
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Plugin Battle_AI includes some improvements to the original AI for battles.
http://www.handbookhmm.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=1650
Differences from the original will be noticeable to strong players and not too noticeable to weak ones.
Improved AI monsters less successfully distracted by weak and quick stacks of the enemy than in the original game - if they can't be hit at once (the AI will attempt to determine - is it human trick, and if trick - that distracting stacks are treated as standing in 1-2 progress further than it really is).
In addition, AI always activates the mode in which he considers that loses - this leads to the fact that AI more bravely attacks strike human stacks.
UPD this mode is deactivated in last plugin versions.
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demoixas
Hired Hero
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posted September 18, 2019 03:03 PM |
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Ben80 said:
Plugin Battle_AI includes some improvements to the original AI for battles.
[url=http://www.handbookhmm.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=1647]http://www.handbookhmm.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=1647[/url]
Differences from the original will be noticeable to strong players and not too noticeable to weak ones.
Improved AI monsters less successfully distracted by weak and quick stacks of the enemy than in the original game - if they can't be hit at once (the AI will attempt to determine - is it human trick, and if trick - that distracting stacks are treated as standing in 1-2 progress further than it really is).
In addition, AI always activates the mode in which he considers that loses - this leads to the fact that AI more bravely attacks strike human stacks.
Thanks for continuing your work on AI progress Ben80. Does this plugin alerts strategic AI on map for attacking enemy with bravery in anyway?
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted September 18, 2019 04:48 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 16:53, 18 Sep 2019.
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demoixas said:
Thanks for continuing your work on AI progress Ben80. Does this plugin alerts strategic AI on map for attacking enemy with bravery in anyway?
Thank you for attention to my mod ))
No, this plugin corresponds its name - it changes a little only AI behaviour during battle.
BTW, current version of plugin is quite primitive - I'm working on more good version. Besides plugin will allow AI use wait possibility more efficiently - in original game AI always attack if possible. Frequently it is not optimal action - wait instead of attack would be much more optimal.
Concerning current version of plugin - unfortunately "brave" AI regime, which I have used, is very primitive, it will be removed from plugin.
Only benefit of that regime - it is "natural", original algorithm.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted September 18, 2019 05:14 PM |
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Concerning strategic AI on map...
To tell the truth I never noticed that original AI on map is too coward. If it have army big enough it always brave )) However there was some bug in Russian version of H3 Complete for hero classes Cleric and Beastmaster (they had zero agressivity). Bug was fixed in HD mod.
In Heroes 3 Plus one have possibility to add additional gold and resources for AI at game start - it help AI very much to speed up development. Did you have tried this possibility ?
Besides, I have fixed (already included in Heroes 3 Plus) wrong AI estimate when it can try to attack town. In original game it does not account for that army in garrision and visiting hero army will be joined (if there is no garrison hero).
Sure, it will be quite hard to refine strategic AI seriously. Still, probably I will try to do it. Probably 
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demoixas
Hired Hero
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posted September 19, 2019 01:42 PM |
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Edited by demoixas at 13:47, 19 Sep 2019.
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Ben80 said:
Concerning strategic AI on map...
To tell the truth I never noticed that original AI on map is too coward. If it have army big enough it always brave )) However there was some bug in Russian version of H3 Complete for hero classes Cleric and Beastmaster (they had zero agressivity). Bug was fixed in HD mod.
This is interesting, I never noticed that. Would be possible to do not just restore to default level but also increase value for even greater aggressiveness?
Ben80 said:
In Heroes 3 Plus one have possibility to add additional gold and resources for AI at game start - it help AI very much to speed up development. Did you have tried this possibility ?
Yes, but it's just cheating and it doesn't solve their main strategic moves and decisions. I agree this is one of the hardest parts to alert AI in any way.
Ben80 said:
Besides, I have fixed (already included in Heroes 3 Plus) wrong AI estimate when it can try to attack town. In original game it does not account for that army in garrision and visiting hero army will be joined (if there is no garrison hero).
This fix will be very handful, I have noticed many times how AI fails to capture town because of this miscalculations!
By the way, did you try to look into AI RADIUS values if it possible to increase it? Some moders from WOG team stated that it increases AI thinking radius. So as far as I understand if AI hero thinking radius is 5000 in the circle and the enemy town is in 6000 radius, then AI hero ''doesn't see it'' and won't go towards it and instead tries to capture/collects resources and/or fights monsters in 5000 radius and if randomly gets closer to the enemy tower with its 5000 radius it will see in the sight and then considers to attack if that AI hero powerful enough. Anyone please free to correct me if I'm wrong. I also think this was done intentionally by the developers to limit AI thinking radius because the game was made 20~ years ago so that time CPU's were not powerful enough but these days even to put 999999 won't have any troubles the present day made CPU's
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