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Orc
Famous Hero
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posted December 20, 2019 08:17 PM |
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Edited by Orc at 20:22, 20 Dec 2019.
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what does your neutrals script exactly do?(I read the readme file its vague)
For now, I tried the two scripts (neutral stack size and neutral stack bonuses)
I noticed that stack size was ok, but stack bonuses is too strong, that many times AI attacks them but then gets defeated.
I played one game and the neutrals are stronger than the AI (even for me)
I know you havent written the scripts yourself, but maybe you have an idea how we should go about it?
I see the problem is that the AI under estimate the neutrals. not sure if that can be solved, or maybe another script will fix this (like it buffs the AI or something)
buffing the AI army is not good enough because the neutrals will still have better stats.
also, I dont use experience in my game
anyway, does your mod takle this problem? I still havent used it (only the 2 scripts mentioned above are used)
Edit: I also noticed AI will upgrade his capitol for even more gold, even though mthril are disabled LOL xD
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted December 21, 2019 09:01 AM |
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Edited by RerryR at 09:06, 21 Dec 2019.
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How can you say the description is vauge, I wrote a half book as explanation on what each option does 
Are you refering on the AC mod or the separate neutral difficulty mod? Anyway they are pretty much the same. The later needs an update thou.
The neutrals with this mod are not to strong because they are excatly as strong as you set them. Thats the advantage of the mod.
Also you need to put your Spyglass on because the computer player does not have to fight stronger neutrals. Except for the stack size, in that case he calculates the army value correct. I did not change anything with upgrading the capitol.
For everyone interested, I updated AC mod to v 1.031 mainly to test the new era with it. New in this Version is that the map difficulty can now be selected indipendantly from AI-difficulty. So you can now play on Impossible and set the AI to easy.
Edit: sry I misread your post, you were refering to original wog scripts. In this case yes, they are insane because they pump neutrals every three days. In my mod you can set better intervals.
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Orc
Famous Hero
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posted December 21, 2019 08:01 PM |
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Edited by Orc at 20:23, 21 Dec 2019.
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but its written in your script that your script will automatically activate stack size and N-bonus.
if thats the case, the problem will remain.
that script isnt too bad for me, the only problem is that the computer kill himself while fighting neutrals.
also, I read in your script that it makes computer get more and more creatures, but that still wont solve problem, because he might attack neutrals who are still stronger than him (becuz of bonuses script) and then will still die. few hell hounds and GoGs wont solve that, will it?
also, I did read that half book.
Quote:
What exactly does the "Tougher_Karmic_Battles" options do?:
It basically doubles the number of creatures you have to fight. The progession is still the same.
so instead of 2 gnolls it will be 8? they would still die 1 hit (because only number increased and not number of stacks; on the other hand, if more stacks were present they will suck more hits to die. but there is maximum number of possible stacks that can exist in a fight i blv, so it might be good idea to just double the number but not increase the number of karmic stacks)
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Orc
Famous Hero
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posted January 03, 2020 04:40 AM |
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so I tried the neutral script size for about 2 months or so. on normal difficulty.
the Attck/def bonus seems a lot more reasonable (it has less amount about only 2 atck/def in like 1 or 2 months).
However, the fundemental problem still stands: AI would still not take it into account, and thus (I assume) will make missjudgements if it gets a little late into the game, and endure heavier losses than he expects.
As I understand, the Bonus script HAS TO BE ON right? I see two options to solve this problem
1-) make script only work vs humans
2-) make option to disable the stack bonus. we can substitute that with stack size. the good thing about stack size is that AI understands it . in fact, the script still do make sense even if the bonus is disabled (contrary to what you said in read me file  )
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted January 03, 2020 09:12 AM |
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Edited by RerryR at 09:14, 03 Jan 2020.
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Orc said:
However, the fundemental problem still stands: AI would still not take it into account, and thus (I assume) will make missjudgements if it gets a little late into the game, and endure heavier losses than he expects.
As I understand, the Bonus script HAS TO BE ON right? I see two options to solve this problem
1-) make script only work vs humans
2-) make option to disable the stack bonus. we can substitute that with stack size. the good thing about stack size is that AI understands it . in fact, the script still do make sense even if the bonus is disabled (contrary to what you said in read me file :p)
The mod automatically turns on option 57 "Neutral Units" but in the mod itself, you can select no change. So it's on but off :P
To solve the "fundamental" problem you are talking about please open the script "21. Neutral Units.erm" from AC mod folder, search for this line:
!!DO1000/21/41/1&v2=1/y50<>1000:P;
and replace with this line
!!DO1000/21/41/1&v2=1/y50<>1000/1000:P;
Problem solved.
honestly, I was not aware that there is no check for AI battle, thanks for pointing it out. Anyway I don't think that it was that big of a deal.
Orc said:
Guys, I need to see some different AI mods, prefferably one that makes AI smarter. though Id take whatever available (all the ones I saw were increase AI money or some other cheats).
so, what would you suggest?
Let me also answer this question, because I have had several requests lately from people wanting a "smarter" or "better" AI. Let me clarify, there is no such thing as a smart AI, nor is there a mod or ever will be a mod that changes that.
The AI makes decisions based on algorithms. Algorithms need input data and later there is a decision to attack the town or not, to cast the spell or not, to buy the creature or not and so on... And theres not only 1 such decisions in the game, there a thousands with thousands of input variables. So what people want when they say "better AI" they want a computer player that makes better moves, plans steps ahead and makes better decisions. So you are basically asking for someone to sit down and go through all this code and optimize EVERY decision making so that in the end the computer player plays better and preferable this mod should be compatible with ERA and has no bugs?
The best you can hope for is that someone sits down and with luck finds one little tiny piece in the code (or bug) to optimize, for example, the decision making in surrendering and release that as a mod. So what I want to say is that we can only optimize very specific situations one by one. There will never be one mod that optimizes the complete AI.
As an example, you can take my AI Artifact equipment mod. There was the problem that AI does not change artifacts in slots if he finds a better alternative. This problem was solvable with ERM code, now we have the mod and we can say the AI is "smarter".
Now the second thing people need to understand, that it is much easier to just let the AI cheat, thus simulating the effect of a better and more challenging AI. This is the reason we have AI mods (which just gives a bonus to AI) because we are able to create them with relatively little effort.
So people please stop asking for "smarter" AIs, better ask for specific problems that can be taken separately.
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Orc
Famous Hero
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posted January 03, 2020 11:00 AM |
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Though what is your response to the neutral atck/def bonus problem?
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted January 03, 2020 11:15 AM |
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Orc said:
Though what is your response to the neutral atck/def bonus problem?
I choose this option:
1-) make script only work vs humans
you can wait for new version or do the change yourself as described. Or was there anything else you wanted to know?
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Orc
Famous Hero
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posted January 03, 2020 03:43 PM |
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Edited by Orc at 15:51, 03 Jan 2020.
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RerryR said:
Orc said:
Though what is your response to the neutral atck/def bonus problem?
I choose this option:
1-) make script only work vs humans
you can wait for new version or do the change yourself as described. Or was there anything else you wanted to know?
Nah, im quite terrible at erm coding. I rather be the end consumer of your scripts.
Im in no rush.
Edit: but ur stack bonus seems a little different than the original one.
The original one had much more Atck/def bonus (3 per week) but urs ut was 2 after 1 month (i played normal)
If it was me, i rather all neutrals have expert air shield, because there can be archer abuze (archers OP vs neutral). It was said that only wraiths have this spell bonus.
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Orc
Famous Hero
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posted January 06, 2020 11:43 PM |
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Edited by Orc at 04:03, 07 Jan 2020.
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is there a way that I can save my choices instead of having to reselct same choices everygame?
manual choice is very good. it just need to be saved. I never knew about it: it gives me full control and perfect understanding.
Edit: hmmm, manual selection doesnt let me choose how much AI army grows.
the best way to improve this is prolly to: put a txt file in which settings is saved. player can directly select preferences in that txt file.
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted January 07, 2020 08:07 AM |
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Orc said:
is there a way that I can save my choices instead of having to reselct same choices everygame?
manual choice is very good. it just need to be saved. I never knew about it: it gives me full control and perfect understanding.
Edit: hmmm, manual selection doesnt let me choose how much AI army grows.
the best way to improve this is prolly to: put a txt file in which settings is saved. player can directly select preferences in that txt file.
No saving of choices, to much work. But for exact this reason I introduced the "Quick Select" which makes settings for you, just one click 
In case you didn't know, you can also make settings during game when right-clicking the system Icon menu on adventure map. but if you use this feature be aware that you have to redo all settings. This feature is great if you want to change AI-Difficulty during your game or disable/enable the Battle-Commander.
Computer player-Army (not Neutrals) growth is dependant on selected AI-difficulty, there is no seperate selection for that.
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Orc
Famous Hero
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posted January 07, 2020 11:32 AM |
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Why would it be tied to game difficulty?
Ai is best at King, and so I never want to play any less than that. But that doesnt mean I expect to fight 25 angels in first month
Also since you already have text file to change options, what makes that impossible for other options?
Well I can concede this last point as long as i control angel growths.
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted January 07, 2020 11:46 AM |
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Edited by RerryR at 12:00, 07 Jan 2020.
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Orc said:
Why would it be tied to game difficulty?
Ai is best at King, and so I never want to play any less than that. But that doesnt mean I expect to fight 25 angels in first month
Also since you already have text file to change options, what makes that impossible for other options?
Well I can concede this last point as long as i control angel growths.
I spent a lot of time and energy to untie from actual game difficulty because it was confusing. So the AI-Army bonus is dependant on the selected "AI-Difficulty" which is different from the "Map-difficulty". I assume you are using the newest version.
AI-Bonus difficulties reach from Easy to Extreme plus there is a hidden fifth difficulty level which is called "Insane", only accessible through another option.
So my recommendation would be so select something like "Easy/Normal" or "Normal/Hard". If I remember correctly at lower difficulties AI won't get level 6 or 7 creatures at all.
Or the second option to prevent early AI harassment is to use the Payday and Progressive Difficulty setting which was exactly designed for that reason.
Creating a text file with saved presets will cost me 20 hours and produces 100 bugs and I don't want to do that just because you are to lazy to do 10 clicks
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Orc
Famous Hero
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posted January 07, 2020 01:24 PM |
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Edited by Orc at 13:25, 07 Jan 2020.
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My version is 2.7
I dled it from the ggldrive link, the stand alone mod file not the one incorporated with Advanced hero mod.
Though you mentioed that this version might be slightly dif. From adv hero mod
I understand that AI growth is different when selecting normal/hard/etc, but as I stated eariler, the option I choose is (manual) and when I choose that option, it doesnt let select AI growth; it doesnt ask me
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted January 07, 2020 02:24 PM |
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Edited by RerryR at 14:24, 07 Jan 2020.
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Orc said:
My version is 2.7
I dled it from the ggldrive link, the stand alone mod file not the one incorporated with Advanced hero mod.
Though you mentioed that this version might be slightly dif. From adv hero mod
I understand that AI growth is different when selecting normal/hard/etc, but as I stated eariler, the option I choose is (manual) and when I choose that option, it doesnt let select AI growth; it doesnt ask me
okaaay sorry, I thought you are were talking about AC Mod.
The standalone mod is not updated, there you dont have a separate option to chose AI-Difficulty yet. I will update it in the evening, it is basically the same now.
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Orc
Famous Hero
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posted January 07, 2020 06:29 PM |
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Edited by Orc at 16:32, 13 Jan 2020.
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(Y)
I thought I was missing something
Edit:
Hello,
I was thinking about spell power and duration
What do you think of making spell duration instead of linear function, what do you think of making it root or Logarithmic function?
I havent looked enough at the numbers but id go for base somewhere around 1.4 if function is choosen logarithmic.
If it was power function, id take it as around 0.85 power.
Best course is to make the number rounded to closest integer (not sure if thats possible)
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted January 13, 2020 04:20 PM |
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Edited by RerryR at 16:38, 13 Jan 2020.
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Orc said:
(Y)
I thought I was missing something
Edit:
Hello,
I was thinking about spell power and duration
What do you think of making spell duration instead of linear function, what do you think of making it root or Logarithmic function?
I havent looked enough at the numbers but id go for base somewhere around 1.4
Best course is to make the number rounded to closest integer (not sure if thats possible)
Edit:
Let's say like this. Alf already wrote such a script. I am sure if he has time he will show it to you.
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AlfWithCake
Known Hero
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posted January 14, 2020 09:20 PM |
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So there is a spell furation changing mod I made when we just started doing AC a long time ago. WE didn't release it because it changes the spell system too much and I didn't like the way I implemented it, because any other mod that depends on duration of spells would be incompatible, coincidentally we have spells like Bloodlust and Stoneskin that depend on spell duration I've made a quick band aid to fix this, but it was not tested thoroughly, so you can expect bugs. Also, description for spell duration artifacts is not changed. This script will be included in the next version.
Anyway, this script changes spell duration from 1*Power to 1 + (Power + 5)/8, rounded down. So mages who have strong early spell power (3) will be able to cast spells with 2 turns duration right away, barbarians will have trouble at this. You get 2 extra spellpower for duration for each expert magic you know, thus with 4 expert magics you cast spells with 1 bonus turn duration. Artifacts that increase duration now give instead 5, 10, 15 spellpower to duration, ring of magic gives extra 100, 130 in total or ~16 bonus turns. GM Sorcery gives +10 spellpower to duration.
Link Add Spell Duration.erm and replace Advanced Classes Spells.erm at your AC/Data/s folder.
You also suggested logarithmic function or root, which I think is not appropriate. High levels of Spell Power should cast long lasting spells, it's just that original linear function is too rewarding. Also, logarithm and roots are not implemented in ERM so I would have to script themmyself, which is an interesting task tbh.
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Archer30
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 17, 2020 10:25 AM |
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Edited by Archer30 at 10:34, 17 Jan 2020.
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Hi PerryR, just one quick question - is this mod compatible with ERA Scripts Mod 1.40? Do I need to disable any options to make them work together? Thanks
Edit: My question had been answered in the FAQ already...Ouch. I'm gonna try it out
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FallenAngel
Hired Hero
Erathia Guard
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posted January 17, 2020 12:26 PM |
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Archer30 said:
Hi PerryR, just one quick question - is this mod compatible with ERA Scripts Mod 1.40? Do I need to disable any options to make them work together? Thanks
Edit: My question had been answered in the FAQ already...Ouch. I'm gonna try it out
Guys, please, don't even try to turn on multiple mods with such enormous count of scripts. In the best case you will spend 8 hours on XXL map and then just lose your progress because of some compatibility errors. That is for your sake. Consider ES and AC as different games to play.
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drakiesan
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 17, 2020 04:24 PM |
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Hi, i got problem when installed, personal wogifying options (rules, skills etc) will get back to default, when starting new scenario (or random) map, even when i set it up. I don't know why or if it's normal. It's only with this, i have newest versions of everything. No VCMI.
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