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| Thread: The Transgender Matrix: It’s Time to Choose the Red Pill |  This thread is pages long: 1 10 ... 18 19 20 21 22 ... 27 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 12, 2021 12:42 AM |
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Kind of drunk, zoo cares
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted December 12, 2021 02:10 AM |
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Salamandre said:
Just out of curiosity, what you call "opposed to trans rights and anti-trans"?
Because all I read is they "consider transgender identities invalid and say that women are defined by biology, rather than gender identity."
I think same and I don't say those calling themselves "trans" should have less constitutional rights than me, be discriminated on their sexual preferences and so. So, how am I anti-trans?
You say also "they aren't particularly feminist" but I read "they approve abortion rights, and favors action to combat violence against women and the introduction of the Nordic Model to combat prostitution."
So, what is to be particularly feminist to you? Deny biology only?
For why they are anti-trans: They have made alliances with groups that oppose anti-discrimination laws (such as the Equality act, which they joined the lawsuit over) that specifically target trans individuals. These were and still are laws that were put in place to protect trans individuals from discrimination. You might not agree with some of the statues of those laws, but Artu has argued with you for long enough on them that I'm not going to be able to convince you on anything on that front.
That, by itself, should constitute them being anti-trans. Especially since they are a self-described branch of trans-exclusionary radical feminism (or TERFs).
As for whether they're particularly feminist: Well... one, there are different kinds of feminism, divided into "waves", and much of what they espouse is pretty solidly second-wave (1960's to early 1990's feminism) and feminists today are mostly divided between Third and Fourth wave (1990's-2008 and 2008-now respectively,) making the claim that a second-wave feminist is a modern icon of the movement (which Tucker's segment claims both in the script and by the title) somewhat suspect. Especially since the second-wave was moved away from specifically over the issues of trans women.
Two: Well again, their alliances speak rather loudly here. They have worked with the Family Policy Alliance, which is a particularly extreme conservative group that stands against pretty much everything all waves of feminism have advocated for, including decriminalized prostitution, access to abortions and contraceptives, opposing discrimination against non-traditional (aka, gay) couples, etc. The Heritage Foundation is a less extreme version of this, and was the one that headed that lawsuit against the Obama-era Equality Act that assured protections for trans individuals from discrimination.
WoLF didn't need to work with either of these groups. They aren't elected representatives, they aren't forced to work with their political rivals, but they did so anyway because the lawsuit focused on the topic that they actually care about. Which is a common through-line for the group. The majority of their activity and political capital is spent in support of anti-trans movements or in opposition to trans anti-discrimination protection measures, with token support tossed for more traditional and mainstream feminist measures.
In my mind, the fact that this group is willing to work with openly anti-feminist groups specifically to oppose transexuals, and that said opposition is the vast majority of their work, makes them an anti-trans group rather than a feminist one. They are, after all, willing to set aside the feminist ideals that every wave of feminism supports in order to make "strange bedfellows" with groups that advance an anti-trans agenda. That, to me, suggests that they aren't really all too attached to feminist ideals, and are merely using feminism as a framework or smokescreen to mask anti-trans bigotry.
So yeah. Second wave feminism that excludes trans women is kinda out of date and a dying ideology, and they work with anti-feminists to oppose trans protections. Not particularly feminist.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 12, 2021 04:02 AM |
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That's a lot to process. I will not go into this development about first and second feminist waves, being differentiated because their support or not to trans, as such individuals may be one sex or another. That is gibberish, what matters is their stance toward biological women, it is in the name.
You say they worked with groups targeting trans, but you cite only one, so I went on it.
A quick read through the work with Family Policy Alliance says the following:
"they filled an amicus brief jointly with Women's Liberation Front, a trans-exclusionary radical feminist organization, to the US Supreme Court. The brief, in opposition to a lower court ruling for a transgender student, stated "pro-family Christians and radical feminists may not agree about much, but they agree that redefining "sex" to mean "gender identity" is a truly fundamental shift in American law and society."
Basically it says they agreed on ONE thing, at one moment, and that was biology (the end of my comment explains why, as the case was about the usage of bathrooms). While they say they disagree on everything else. You know, between 33 and 38, both France and UK signed pacts and agreements with Hitler, that doesn't mean they shared same goals, nor they had same values.
Obama Equality act now. Reading more through the Wikipedia article it says:
"In August 2016, WoLF filed a lawsuit against the Obama administration for its directive on Title IX permitting students to use bathrooms based on their reported gender identity"
and:
"On November 17, 2021, WoLF filed a lawsuit against the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation over their policy of transferring prisoners from male to female prisons, including sex offenders, on the basis of gender identity"
Fair enough. Let's look at, from a neutral perspective, not from the nonsensical indoctrinated angle we are used to.
There are three issues nowadays where there is increasing backlash against trans requests: bathrooms, prisons and sports.
It's interesting to observe who is complaining about, is it men? No, it is women who complain. Women and specifically young girls feel uncomfortable and unsafe to see a biological man nearby while in public bathrooms. Women also feel uncomfortable to see in prisons showers a naked man.
About trans competing in sports, who complains again, is it men? No, again women complain, and its not hard to see why. It’s a denial of science and shows complete disregard for fairness to say that a male athlete who identifies as female is just the same as the biological females.
Some will of course say "hey, there is no problem because they will have to lower their testosterone level until it matches the regular female level". Maybe, but why then trans only win in the female competition and never in male competition, if it is only a matter of hormonal dosage?
In fine, one group right to privacy and fairness is stomped in order to grant rights to another group. Those group new rights deny the first group rights, otherwise there would not be so many complaints and reports.
So, it seems to me from the above facts that WoLF defends women rights to equity and privacy, therefore it deserves to be considered truly feminist. Wikipedia proves once more it is unreliable and intoxicated, when it comes to ideologies.
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Gandalf196
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted December 14, 2021 01:18 AM |
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evildustructor
Known Hero
Pizza Man dominos pizza yummy
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posted December 14, 2021 02:05 AM |
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you guys really hate trans people huh
gandalf fuming at the thought of them existing
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 14, 2021 02:59 AM |
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what we have here, is a failure to communicate.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted December 14, 2021 05:15 AM |
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Ok I got 39 "full/maximum lexes", what I told aleady that I started to collect transsexual lexes, and yesterday I finished work. An example
acault (n/Bur.) a male who exhibits transgender behavior
Such a life! My oriental and style isn't..but I don't hate. Don't call phobia.
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Gandalf196
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted December 15, 2021 12:22 PM |
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fred79 said:
i had a conversation/argument with someone i know irl yesterday, regarding transgenderism.
first off, let me say, that this person believes literally everything the msm tells him, the same as artu, jj, and many others here do. so, i was essentially talking to someone from their group. needless to say, our conversation/argument got us both nowhere. we still get along, despite the fact we are polar opposites in almost every aspect except we're both males, like video games, and have served in the military. that's where our similarities end, and end HARD.
the whole conversation started because i made a typically flippant joke regarding something we were discussing, and i used the word "tranny"(a word i don't normally use in conversation, but it applied humorously to what we were discussing prior to this). he stopped our initial discussion, and remarked "you know that's an offensive word to transgenders". inwardly rolling my eyes and sighing(because now i know he believes THAT specific bs the msm tells him, too), i explained i only used the word flippantly, as i don't, and haven't, discussed anything in that regard, with anyone(irl).
anyway, as our new conversation on that matter carried on, he expressed to me that he had a transgender person in his family, hence the reason he was emotionally invested in the topic.
we exchanged beliefs, his being straight from the msm; mine being from logic and psychological/pharmaceutical knowledge of the illness(prior to the wokeist shift in popular "understanding" and blatant reversal of formerly held scientific and psychological knowledge). i stressed to him how much i cared for the mentally ill, and wanting to help them overcome their issue; with him focusing strictly on the msm-propaganda.
in the end, i tried getting him to understand, that if there were a medicine that actually stopped someone from suffering from gender dysphoria, then the problem was obviously chemical in nature, and thus physical. the problem resulted from a chemical imbalance in the brain, and not a belief the person had(as he believed/was told by the msm).
he disagreed, obviously irritated by simple logic.
at that point, i immediately changed the subject. obviously, trying to reach these people on literally ANYTHING regarding facts that contradict msm brainwashing, is for naught. we've had other discussions regarding topics the msm push on people, and he refuses to have any understanding of anything beyond what the msm tells him, and others like him.
it's beyond frustrating.
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Gandalf196
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted December 15, 2021 05:36 PM |
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted December 15, 2021 06:00 PM |
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Let's just skip all the injustices a transgender goes through and go straight to transgenders in the Olympics. Ah, finally a legit reason to snow at them! Feels soooo good.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 15, 2021 07:04 PM |
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In developed countries, transgenders actually complain for not getting extra rights, nobody denies them constitutional rights, the same rights you and me are entitled to.
Find me one example where a transgender suffered discrimination then didn't sue and win. Skip the extra rights as "preferred pronouns", "bathrooms at choice" and "words offend my safe space", those are not rights - until carved in the constitutional marble, but individual wishes.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted December 15, 2021 08:58 PM |
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Injustices in the sense of getting mistreated by standard people, not a lack of rights in an actual court.
Getting to an actual court isn't exactly an easy thing. It takes money, effort, time, and most importantly, proof, and proof requires an already good standing with people around you, unless you walk around with a hidden camera 24 7.
I was just saying, there's something convenient about skipping all the other issues and going straight to them being in the Olympics. There's a thinly veiled indirect admission in there, and it's that every other transgender complaint before that isn't valid.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 15, 2021 09:20 PM |
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Kayna said:
and most importantly, proof
no, it doesn't, gentle dreamer.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 15, 2021 09:39 PM |
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Kayna said:
Injustices in the sense of getting mistreated by standard people, not a lack of rights in an actual court.
Being mistreated can be said about tons of people, depending on political side, ethnicity, nationality, gender, hair color, body size, intelligence quotient and so on, too.
Conservative/right wing are commonly called racists, fascists and deluded, is that easy to handle? Go in any non moderated forum, talk about anything sensitive or controversial, you will get copiously insulted. Why transgender people should be the Chosen group, where none can act just ... normally and feel like walk on eggs? If a transgender is stupid, call him stupid, why should they be immune?
You start with saying they suffer injustice, now you admit they suffer same thing as everyone around - being judged on actions and words, is just that they can't handle it and try to skip the line. That's equality, both in bad and good.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted December 15, 2021 10:33 PM |
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Of course. But perhaps the real difference lies in the quantity of injustices, when we interpret a broader picture.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 15, 2021 10:49 PM |
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Sure. Right wing and white people suffer more injustice from medias than all other groups combined. I can show you right now tens of articles from NYT where they are treated as subhumans, the world they created as flawed and their ambitions as oppressive.
The echo such medias have is nowhere near some individual insult in reddit. Transgenders have it easy compared. Let's think one moment how the world would have reacted if Trump called them as a "Basket of deplorables", what you think?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 15, 2021 10:59 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Sure. Right wing and white people suffer more injustice from medias than all other groups combined.
Sbow me the non-white right-wing people, please. And right-wing people suffer injustice? What right wing people are we talking here?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 15, 2021 11:20 PM |
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Candace Owens, Larry Elder, Allen West, to name a few well known, which are treated as sh!t by mainstream.
JollyJoker said:
And right-wing people suffer injustice? What right wing people are we talking here?
Dunno, the basket of deplorables? Covington kids?? Kyle Rittenhouse?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 15, 2021 11:42 PM |
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Oh, come on.
The problem with "right-wing" is, that there is a violent extreme right-wing scene that's pulling the "moderate" right-wings (actually what was called conservative) down, same way as the radical violent left did in the 70s and 80s with the moderate left.
The three names you named are all Americans - happenstance? US is vastly different from Europe, since there is no "left". Democrats aren't left. They are pretty conservative, actually. Which means, the usual left-right characterization doesn't make sense for the US anyway.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted December 15, 2021 11:50 PM |
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There is no way to know the exact numbers of needless problems dumped on different groups. I did talk with a transgender once and she said she was refused entry in a hospital with the nurse telling her "we don't know how to treat your kind in here". That was in Canada by the way, a country supposed to not be backwater.
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