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| Thread: WHY PIONEER NEUROSURGEON WILDER PENFIELD SAID THE MIND IS MORE THAN THE BRAIN |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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Gandalf196
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posted May 30, 2021 04:44 PM |
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 30, 2021 06:06 PM |
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The conclusion is: “ So he had three lines of evidence: His inability to stimulate intellectual thought, the inability of seizures to cause intellectual thought, and his inability to stimulate the will. … So he concluded that the intellect and the will are not from the brain.”
Penfield (who died in 1976, btw) seems like too smart a man to directly say something such as this, so I suspect his words are oversimplified to support pseudoscientific views of the site here. But if we look at the argument itself, whether Penfield said it or not, just because you cant stimulate something artificially, isnt evidence to conclude that thing is super-natural and beyond physical phenomenon.
The second guy, Michael Egnor is a blogger for the the Discovery Institute and in case you dont know what that means:
“The Discovery Institute (DI) is a politically conservative non-profit think tank based in Seattle, Washington, that advocates the pseudoscientific concept of intelligent design (ID). It was founded in 1990 as a non-profit offshoot of the Hudson Institute. Its "Teach the Controversy" campaign aims to permit the teaching of anti-evolution, intelligent-design beliefs in United States public high school science courses in place of accepted scientific theories, positing that a scientific controversy exists over these subjects when in fact there is none.”
And of course, he is your usual charlatan in this regard:
“Egnor rejected evolutionary theory after reading Michael Denton's book Evolution: A Theory in Crisis and said "claims of evolutionary biologists go wildly beyond the evidence." In 2007 he joined the Discovery Institute's Evolution News & Views blog.
Biologist Jerry Coyne responded to Egnor's article by saying that Egnor accepted widely discredited claims (claims recanted by Denton himself in a later book) and "Egnor is decades out of date and shows no sign of knowing anything at all about evolutionary biology in the 21st century." Egnor later published a series of comprehensive articles on Discovery Institute responding to Coyne's remarks. Egnor is a signatory to the Discovery Institute intelligent design campaign A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism and Physicians and Surgeons who Dissent from Darwinism.
In March 2007, when the Alliance for Science sponsored an essay contest for high school students on the topic "Why I would want my doctor to have studied evolution," Egnor responded by posting an essay on the Discovery Institute's intelligent design blog claiming that evolution was irrelevant to medicine. Burt Humburg criticized him on the blog Panda's Thumb citing the benefits of evolution to medicine and, contrary to Egnor's claim, that doctors do study evolution.
Egnor appeared in Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. In the film, Ben Stein describes this as "Darwinists were quick to try and exterminate this new threat," and Egnor says he was shocked by the "viciousness" and "baseness" of the response. The website Expelled Exposed, created by the National Center for Science Education (NCSE), responded by saying that Egnor must never have been on the Internet before.”
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Salamandre
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posted May 30, 2021 07:31 PM |
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Funny how the myriads of "progressist" (I would have added liberal too but today it makes no longer sense - everyone is liberal) think-tanks are never called so, but when you have one conservative, it makes headers in the beyond possible "progressist" biased and infected Wikipedia, we can definitely label it so.
Didn't read the arguments, just wanted to point that anomaly.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 30, 2021 07:50 PM |
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And I want to point out that linking to an article on some website in the VW without any comment, explanation or opining STILL isn't justifying ANY response, not to mntion a serious one.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 30, 2021 08:07 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Funny how the myriads of "progressist" (I would have added liberal too but today it makes no longer sense - everyone is liberal) think-tanks are never called so, but when you have one conservative, it makes headers in the beyond possible "progressist" biased and infected Wikipedia, we can definitely label it so.
Didn't read the arguments, just wanted to point that anomaly.
Because evolution is not “a progressist” or liberal political view, it is a biological fact. Where as Intelligent Design is not science but pretends to be so as a political stance.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted May 30, 2021 08:11 PM |
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artu said:
The second guy, Michael Egnor is a blogger for the the Discovery Institute and in case you dont know what that means:
He knows. It is (at least) the second time he recommends people deeply promoting Intelligent Design.
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Salamandre
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posted May 30, 2021 08:42 PM |
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artu said:
Because evolution is not “a progressist” or liberal political view, it is a biological fact. Where as Intelligent Design is not science but pretends to be so as a political stance.
No no, I only commented the reference to conservative movement, which never mises to show on Wikipedia.
Did not comment the arguments, my IQ is same as yesterday so I feel no hope to get that stuff.
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Gandalf196
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posted May 30, 2021 09:55 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Funny how the myriads of "progressist" (I would have added liberal too but today it makes no longer sense - everyone is liberal) think-tanks are never called so, but when you have one conservative, it makes headers in the beyond possible "progressist" biased and infected Wikipedia, we can definitely label it so.
Didn't read the arguments, just wanted to point that anomaly.
Precisely! In fact, see how the usual suspects are arguing "omg, a shill from the Discovery Institute, such a loser, etc."
Also, https://evolutionnews.org/2017/10/wikipedia-erases-paleontologist-gunter-bechly/
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 30, 2021 10:03 PM |
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Once again, a link to an ID site. You can keep linking them if it makes you feel good. It’s not something anyone who is literate even on lay man level, will take seriously. It’s a pseudo-debate. It’s just ironic how Intelligent Design advocates try so desperately to pose as scientific while ignoring the actual science and the method. The whole thing is creationism in disguise.
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fred79
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posted May 30, 2021 10:12 PM |
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artu disagrees. story at 11.
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Gandalf196
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posted May 30, 2021 10:35 PM |
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artu said:
The conclusion is: “ So he had three lines of evidence: His inability to stimulate intellectual thought, the inability of seizures to cause intellectual thought, and his inability to stimulate the will. … So he concluded that the intellect and the will are not from the brain.”
Penfield (who died in 1976, btw) seems like too smart a man to directly say something such as this, so I suspect his words are oversimplified to support pseudoscientific views of the site here. But if we look at the argument itself, whether Penfield said it or not, just because you cant stimulate something artificially, isnt evidence to conclude that thing is super-natural and beyond physical phenomenon.
Curse your oponents all you want, the giant Wilder Penfield was so persuaded by the empirical evidence that he became an ardent dualist. That's the story. The current zeitgesit abhors the idea that there may be non material explanations for phenomena. The real scientists knew better and actually pursued the evidence wherever it lead.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 30, 2021 10:41 PM |
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It's plain nonsense.
To expect that "mind" can be "piqued".:: Let's call it a PROCESS, shall we, and then try to get a "mind reaction" by poking the brain...
Still:
Quote:
linking to an article on some website in the VW without any comment, explanation or opining STILL isn't justifying ANY response, not to mntion a serious one.
IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY - SAY IT!
And say it somewhere else than in the VW. Otherwise, you are just fooling around.
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fred79
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posted May 30, 2021 10:45 PM |
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jj disagrees, too. story at 11.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 30, 2021 10:46 PM |
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fred79 said:
artu disagrees. story at 11.
You keep on not disagreeing with ID.
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fred79
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posted May 30, 2021 10:52 PM |
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i'm not a part of this conversation. merely pointing out some facts. look any decent reporter. 
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted May 30, 2021 10:56 PM |
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Are you afraid of saying if you are against or for ID? Why?
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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fred79
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posted May 30, 2021 11:05 PM |
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i have no bias in this conversation. i am only a reporter. also:
minion argues with a reporter just doing their job. more at 11.
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Gandalf196
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posted May 30, 2021 11:07 PM |
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The troika is at full force today
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fred79
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posted May 30, 2021 11:11 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 23:13, 30 May 2021.
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it's always the same 3 core people.
special presentation tonight at 11.
edit: awwwww, minny deleted his post. 
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted May 30, 2021 11:14 PM |
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fred79 said:
minion argues with a reporter just doing their job. more at 11.
I laughed out loud 
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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