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| Thread: Teen who filmed George Floyd's murder given journalism award |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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blizzardboy
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posted June 12, 2021 01:09 AM |
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Teen who filmed George Floyd's murder given journalism award
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57449229
I think this was very appropriate given the impact of the video on social justice and the bravery required to do this. Spontaneous videos such as this are examples of how bystanders can provide media coverage in ways that professionals are unable to do, because you cannot predict when it might be required.
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artu
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posted June 12, 2021 07:08 AM |
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Edited by artu at 07:09, 12 Jun 2021.
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I got nothing against the award but why do you consider it a brave act? I dont think U.S. sank low enough that the cops are going to attack bystanders with cameras, especially if there are other people around.
(Our guys on the other hand, were trying to outlaw taking footage of cops arresting people or interfering during protests, just about a month ago. They even came up with an excuse as stupid as “violation of privacy.” Because filming a cop on the job is like going into his bedroom and reading his journal!)
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blizzardboy
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posted June 12, 2021 03:19 PM |
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@artu
If you consider the original police report of what happened with George Floyd: the report said that he simply died of complications. There was nothing about the fact that he had a knee on his neck for almost 10 minutes for no apparent reason. The video contradicted what was officially reported.
As far as the bravery aspect: police disproportionately arrest people of color for various reasons and he might have applied the law, shall we say, quite loosely and said she was being disruptive. It's like how a team of CNN reporters were arrested while filming demonstrations because they supposedly didn't clear the area, even though the police had failed to give instructions in the first place. In situations like that with no camera to document the truth, the testimony of the police would likely be respected.
Not all of this can be chalked up to corruption or abuse, per se. Sometimes, it might simply be incompetence and a lack of training.
Also, the bystander effect is a psychological phenomenon where people are much less likely to get involved in a public space. So it is good that she actually stopped and started recording because most people would have kept walking.
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted June 12, 2021 04:03 PM |
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Edited by Geny at 16:04, 12 Jun 2021.
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While I agree that her actions, both filming the video and distributing it, are commendable and should be awarded, say some kind of human rights award, it saddens me to see her getting a journalism award. Not because of what it says about her, but because of what it says about journalism.
It may be hard to remember nowadays, but before the internet and the need to get everything as fast as possible journalism was more than quick announcements and glorified talk shows. Investigative journalism was the kind of work that got Pulitzers. That means, fact checking, background checks, getting the reactions of several sides all to get something approximating the "truth" as closely as possible. A person filming a short video with a phone on the street will never be able to create such a story. Said video would not usually witness the beginning that caused the story, be biased because it shows only one side, miss the full extent of the damage and so on and so forth. I'd rather journalism awards were there to encourage serious journalism work, rather than opportunism, important as it may be.
P.S. Who took the picture of her filming the video while everything was going on?
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blizzardboy
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posted June 12, 2021 04:21 PM |
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It's not an either/or kind of thing though.
In this case, what would have investigative journalism have accomplished? They could have asked around with all of the people who were at the incident, if they could even be identified and contacted in the first place, which they wouldn't have been unless somebody reached out to the news first. And after collecting their testimonies, it would have been an us versus them scenario, where the police officers say one thing and the bystanders say something else. Would Derrick Chauvin have been convicted? Extremely unlikely. As I already mentioned, the official police report was vague and useless.
Instead, a teen stopped, pulled out her phone, and recorded the bull**** first hand. The result is that a murdering cop is now convicted. In most situations, cops/soldiers can kill people and get away with it unless their own call them out on it, which they rarely do.
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted June 12, 2021 04:25 PM |
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Quote:
In this case, what would have investigative journalism have accomplished?
Except you're turning things around. The question here wasn't "what kind of treatment this case should have gotten?", it was "what kind of case is worthy of a journalism award?". And I claim that this wasn't it.
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blizzardboy
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posted June 12, 2021 04:33 PM |
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Okay, you can feel that way, but the Pulitzer board is allowed to decide what criteria they want to follow for what is "worthy". They aren't bound by some kind of rule that they can only give awards to investigative journalism. If they want to also sometimes give awards for opportunistic journalism by bystanders - in this case an event that produced national and international attention - then that is their decision.
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blob2
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posted June 12, 2021 06:11 PM |
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Don't policeman in USA have bodycams?
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Salamandre
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posted June 12, 2021 06:56 PM |
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blizzardboy said:
police disproportionately arrest people of color
This is as flawed as claiming our society is sexist by disproportionately arresting men.
**********
As about award, imo is not about journalism but the deep impact the video had worldwide. Sometimes the right person at the right moment can make a difference.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 12, 2021 07:31 PM |
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Wait - what?
So you claim that the difference between men and women is the same than the difference between black and every other skin color?
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Salamandre
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posted June 12, 2021 07:41 PM |
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No, it was an example of flawed logic, where you deliberately choose to ignore facts in order to keep going a limping narrative.
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artu
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posted June 12, 2021 07:46 PM |
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blob2 said:
Don't policeman in USA have bodycams?
Yes, but as far as I know, the footage is not public unless there is an investigation and a demand for it. So hypothetically, things can still be swept under the rug.
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Gandalf196
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posted June 12, 2021 08:00 PM |
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Salamandre said:
blizzardboy said:
police disproportionately arrest people of color
This is as flawed as claiming our society is sexist by disproportionately arresting men.
**********
As about award, imo is not about journalism but the deep impact the video had worldwide. Sometimes the right person at the right moment can make a difference.
Precisely.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 12, 2021 08:19 PM |
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Salamandre said:
No, it was an example of flawed logic, where you deliberately choose to ignore facts in order to keep going a limping narrative.
No, it's comparing two completely different things. Men and women ARE biologically different and have different aggression levels, hormonally, and evolutionary - biologically. So you would EXPECT men to conflict with the law more often than women, and that's independently from the social situation of women.
That is different with skin color - or you'd have to prove it wasn't different. In short, the comparison is invalid and dishonest.
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Salamandre
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posted June 12, 2021 08:38 PM |
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Cops are not biologists. They answer to a call complaining about an ongoing crime. Blacks commit several times more crimes than any other race. The arrest situation doesn't take in account historical realities, poverty, familial situation and such, such circumstances will be discussed further, the judicial apparatus is there later for that.
Therefore blacks are arrested on a higher rate, corresponding to the rate of their crime. Is as simple as that, but you are free to continue your usual litany.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 12, 2021 10:11 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Cops are not biologists. They answer to a call complaining about an ongoing crime. Blacks commit several times more crimes than any other race. The arrest situation doesn't take in account historical realities, poverty, familial situation and such, such circumstances will be discussed further, the judicial apparatus is there later for that.
Therefore blacks are arrested on a higher rate, corresponding to the rate of their crime. Is as simple as that, but you are free to continue your usual litany.
You are now making a completely different point.
Back to your comparison: Do you admit that your comparison was flawed? Yes or no? (And you can spare yourself the crap about litanies.)
Now, your CURRENT point. The point blizz made was that people of color are disproportionately often ARRESTED(!). You say Quote:
Blacks commit several times more crimes than any other race.
But that has nothing to do with ARRESTING - as you yourself say: FIRST comes the arrest, THEN the judicial apparatus DETERMINES whether the arrested committed a crime or not. Only people who ARE arrested CAN appear in crime statistics - so if you are disproportionately arrested, there will be a disproportionate amount of CONVICTIONS as well, which actually means that what you say has absolutely no meaning or relevance.
Think about the following:
You have a muslim-ruled country with a Christian population. Statistics say, Christians are arrested (and convicted) disproportionately. Would you say that Quote:
Christians commit several more crimes than any other religion
?
Or would you suspect some kind of foul play? Mitigating circumstances? Bias?
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Salamandre
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posted June 12, 2021 10:59 PM |
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Oh boy. People get convicted because they commit crimes, not because they get arrested. Police doesn't walk down the street and pick random people based on their race, they answer to calls relating ongoing felonies then they remove the threat. And the majority are committed by blacks, that's the reality. Therefore you will have more arrests in that community, is this that hard to dig?
What you insidiously want is having the police acting racially biased, and non factually based.
JollyJoker said:
You have a muslim-ruled country with a Christian population. Statistics say, Christians are arrested (and convicted) disproportionately. Would you say that Christians commit several more crimes than any other religion
And you accuse me of flawed comparisons?
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fred79
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posted June 12, 2021 11:07 PM |
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lol. man, that is some whole other level of ignorant.
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blob2
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posted June 12, 2021 11:23 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 23:23, 12 Jun 2021.
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artu said:
blob2 said:
Don't policeman in USA have bodycams?
Yes, but as far as I know, the footage is not public unless there is an investigation and a demand for it. So hypothetically, things can still be swept under the rug.
Yeah but in this case a man died, so definately a case would follow.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 12, 2021 11:34 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Oh boy. People get convicted because they commit crimes, not because they get arrested. Police doesn't walk down the street and pick random people based on their race, they answer to calls relating ongoing felonies then they remove the threat. And the majority are committed by blacks, that's the reality. Therefore you will have more arrests in that community, is this that hard to dig?
What you insidiously want is having the police acting racially biased, and non factually based.
JollyJoker said:
You have a muslim-ruled country with a Christian population. Statistics say, Christians are arrested (and convicted) disproportionately. Would you say that Christians commit several more crimes than any other religion
And you accuse me of flawed comparisons?
I don't want anything.
And that last question shows you don't understand anything.
You just have no point whatsoever. You don't even try. You just insist on having one.
You don't answer questions.
You just regurgitate unreflected meaningless phrases.
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