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| Thread: Best Heroes IV Magic skill | |
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted March 01, 2023 08:22 AM |
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Poll Question:
Best Heroes IV Magic skill
Maybe noob's question, but..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted March 01, 2023 09:08 AM |
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Order
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted March 01, 2023 05:34 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 13:00, 03 Mar 2023.
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in vanilla game, order has the greatest versatility, plus creating illusions is OP for creeping
you can create level 4 illusions of enemies at just advanced order, while you need grandmaster nature to summon level 4 creatures
In my ULTIMATE mod, I have made all magics more versatile, rather like order, but with greater MP cost
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baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted March 02, 2023 06:14 PM |
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Edited by baronus at 19:30, 04 Mar 2023.
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baronus
Yes second is probably nature with summoning. Summon of pixies is eg. usefull to block shooters. Death is little worst because summon sceletons gives worst unit. But next lvl wampyres are very strong.
Life and chaos rather at the end.
But all system is very good! Big diversification. H3 system all hero spell in all game is very primitive. In H4 you can use haste only in one faction! The same blind slow and a lot of spells which in H3 you have all the time! It gives H4 unique strategies. And that is what keep me with this game.
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ceceron
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 03, 2023 12:30 PM |
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Order magic is OP.
Chaos is on the other end of the spectrum — equilibris tried to fix it a bit, but only a bit. Death magic is also unsatisfying compared to nature. The only redeeming feature is the overpowered vampiric touch 
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2023 04:43 AM |
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I guess the only reason you aren't voting for Death is you are thinking of Equilibris or other nerfs to Necromancy, since I never played with them and I love the Vampire's raising, I'll vote for Death. While the spells them selves aren't that OP, the special beats everything unless you don't add any living neutrals to the map.
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ceceron
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 07, 2023 05:04 PM |
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"Raise Vampires" is excellent, given the OP status of vampires in the vanilla heroes 4, but...
1) assuming, you're 20lvl necro with grandmaster demonology, it gives you max 8 vampires per dead stack (assuming the stack is strong enough)
2) you've first to kill the stack using other means
3) it costs 12 mana and requires grandmaster necromancy
Now, let's compare it with the "Phantom Image" spell:
1) assuming, you're 20lvl wizard with grandmaster Wizardry, phantom image clones 496hp, which gives you ~7 vampires and the vampires are weaker (-20% defense), but...
2) it doesn't require killing anybody
3) you may clone different units depending on the battle requirements. Vampires are OP (especially in vanilla), but are severely limited when fighting with bloodless enemies.
4) stacks with "create illusion"
5) costs 8 mana and requires master order
Long story short, in my experience, Phantom Image is superior to Raise Vampires (in fact, I believe it's the strongest "summon" spell in the game, given it's so universally applicable and the djinns can use a weaker version that stacks with it).
The fun thing is that Phantom Image is just one of the OP spells in Order...
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted March 08, 2023 07:25 AM |
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@ceceron I guess you understood me wrong. I'm not talking about Raise Vampires spell but of Grandmaster Necromancy raising "real" vampires after each won fight against living creatures. While the special is unbeatable, Death the spells are generally not the ones I use. Quite good for the Coliseums, though.
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Sammyboi123
Hired Hero
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posted May 14, 2023 05:13 AM |
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Difficult to say, personally I have had the most success with life magic and the keep buffing everyone then switch to healing/resurrecting as needed playstyle of it. Life is especially strong when you get a tome of life or Master’s spellbook and can open each fight by casting the appropriate mass ward spell. Also, the secondary skill resurrection is better than most, it protects you from slowly losing creatures here and there.and able to take harder fights with no casualties.
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Sammyboi123
Hired Hero
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posted May 14, 2023 04:11 PM |
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ceceron said:
Order magic is OP.
Chaos is on the other end of the spectrum — equilibris tried to fix it a bit, but only a bit. Death magic is also unsatisfying compared to nature. The only redeeming feature is the overpowered vampiric touch
Order Magic certainly can be OP, hypnotize comes to mind as one of the most broken spells in the game. But it does have some weaknesses. If your opponent finds a helm of mind shield, a relatively common artifact, that is a huge counter to order magic. If the enemy army has non-living creatures, that can also be a problem. Finally, order has the worst secondary skill with “charm”, which is largely unusable and the advanced classes it makes are average.
Chaos on the other hand has very powerful advanced classes, you got stuff like fire shield, more mana, some great options really can’t go wrong. The “sorcery” secondary skill is also much better than charm. Hydra health is a pre-battle staple, and mana flare is a staple during periods of heavy creeping to keep mana flowing for all heroes. In combat what you do is lead with mass misfortune, then switch to blasting or cloud of confusion, (typical if you went black dragon) or more buffs like mass speed, cat reflex, mass first strike, mass bloodlust (typical if you went hydra). Lastly, chaos magic is very good for keeping enemy heroes honest about their magic resistance; if they skimp on it, a single inferno can wipe them all out.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 30, 2023 03:56 PM |
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Ok..
Tocath teaches players then, but I don't know when the map (Elite) will be published/released..
Think about Homm3 in Homm4 yet. Ok?
A legion of Crossbowmen stopped your travel, Tocath explains to his noob Barbarian that only 1 hero vs always be 1 group, and then spell is the strongest Nature, thus Faerie Dragon casts Confusion. Other good Forgetfulness. So Crossbowmen can walk with their poor melee. Faerie Dragon is cheaper solution, when you can cast a Fatigue or Slow and/or Quicksand. Then Poison. It after Faerie Dragons cast a Lightning! Why not a Raise Vampires?
Remember Tocath has five spell classes, and noob Barbarian has Might skills, and one skill is your favorite spell class.
I like Death-Nature-Chaos, but the best spell class, I can't say. It seems town for spells. If Academy, so the best Order, but Life and Death. I like Death-Nature-Chaos. Depend on hero lvl and map.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted June 10, 2023 10:19 AM |
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Edited by Ghost at 10:20, 10 Jun 2023.
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Hmm why Elite doesn't teach in the H4E also HotA or WoG in the H3? False doctrine! When if resurrection spell, so you cast a Blind variation, and your another hero casts Armageddon, and then blind-resurrection-resurrection-blind-resurrection etc also useless Resurrection skill. It's one example. Nice H4 modders never created stronger Sorcery skill or Armageddon spell. But I agree that yourself learn H4E, etc because chess 8x8 can teach a strategy, but if 8x10, so only rule, when 8x10 or other chess broads are MOD. I don't know how to do H4 MOD. At least I create objects, when H4 has very little objects. I improve a graphics and AI too. If I know how to do MOD.
But you know now.. 
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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unknown_dark_g
Hired Hero
heroes galopping in his heart
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posted June 13, 2023 05:16 PM |
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While Order is great, I believe Death Magic is the ultimate magic skill.
You see, Death has the highest lvl1 damage spell: Poison. Being a spell, that literally lasts forever, it is unparalleled in damage when it comes to long fights (which death as a whole faction really loves)
Death also has many ways of reducing an enemy army's damageoutput, which considering how tanky the faction as a whole is, is actually kinda insane.
Also death has a lvl2 spell, that might be considered even better then the illusion spell: reanimate dead. Unlike the illusion spell, it enables spellcasting. Especially raising dead imps early on, is very powerful against magicusers.
Another great lvl 2 spell is sorrow. Maximum negative morale is a homm4 player's dream.
Also that one annoying spell on the adventure map that reduces movement can be cast so many times, till even magicresistent heroes finally break to it.
And whoa, Life drain at lvl2 is sometimes a monster of a powerspell.
Now the highlight of death is the lvl 3 spell : MAss Cancellation.
You remove ALL enemy buffs, be it lvl5 or 1, and it pierces every level of magic resistance.
Enemy heroes can cast Dragon Strenght, use immortality potions and Geenies can summon large stacks, all of it will be gone in one single turn made by 1 single hero.
And that spell ist just lvl 3.
Another powerful magebattle winner is the death Version of Mana drain. Unlike the Order Mana Drain, you actually also drain mana, thus filling your own manapool aswell and removing a view more points from the enemy.
Now you might think death has only curses, no blessings.
Wrong, death has one of the best blessings only inferior to Dragon Strenght, though sometimes it is even superior: Vampiric touch.
The only resurrection besides Sacrifice, while life can only resurrect heroes. This one works on everything. It makes an army nearly unkillable. And that is not even a lvl 5 spell.
The lvl5s are actually amazing: A spell like Hand of Death owns high level creatures and is a gigantic threat to heroes.
then there is Sacrifice, the type of spell that is never used in small battles, but in the final fight it can change the game.
And obviously raising vampires raises more hp then most other summons, because Vampires do get their hp back, thus you get a lot of hp value here.
Also death, of all magic schools has as the third, least used secondary skill, the best skill in the game: Necromancy. Even raising ghosts is already broken, but vampires... this is the homm4 equivalent of the cloak of the undead king. I'd argue it is so good, one should even have a necromancer when playing chaos and Order. Its just too good to not have it.
On top of that death has actually the best class combos.
Of all might combos, (usually pretty weak bonuses) the Assassin is actually the best, since he gets speed, thus getting a turn before the enemy heroes, and that one can be a game- winning turn.
Demonologists are obviously the best class in the game, but then there's the dark priest.
Whenever you see a hero of this class in the ultralategame, you know its over. An undispellable lifedrain? Yeah... thats very scary on lategame stats.
The Dark Lord is pretty good, not only because it is the fastest way of getting a large army (necromancy + Nobility in combo with diplo troops in undead transformer) but also because of what happens when you have a bow. Maximum negative morale per shot is pretty demoralizing.
The ninja is also pretty decent in the early game (btw the poison of the ninja depends on the damage of the hero, not his death mgic skill).
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unknown_dark_g
Hired Hero
heroes galopping in his heart
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posted June 13, 2023 05:21 PM |
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ceceron said:
"Raise Vampires" is excellent, given the OP status of vampires in the vanilla heroes 4, but...
1) assuming, you're 20lvl necro with grandmaster demonology, it gives you max 8 vampires per dead stack (assuming the stack is strong enough)
2) you've first to kill the stack using other means
3) it costs 12 mana and requires grandmaster necromancy
Now, let's compare it with the "Phantom Image" spell:
1) assuming, you're 20lvl wizard with grandmaster Wizardry, phantom image clones 496hp, which gives you ~7 vampires and the vampires are weaker (-20% defense), but...
2) it doesn't require killing anybody
3) you may clone different units depending on the battle requirements. Vampires are OP (especially in vanilla), but are severely limited when fighting with bloodless enemies.
4) stacks with "create illusion"
5) costs 8 mana and requires master order
Long story short, in my experience, Phantom Image is superior to Raise Vampires (in fact, I believe it's the strongest "summon" spell in the game, given it's so universally applicable and the djinns can use a weaker version that stacks with it).
The fun thing is that Phantom Image is just one of the OP spells in Order...
Phantom image does not stack with create illusion. It creates a second stack. Also never forget that vampires have life drain, making their hp values far higher then they seem.
On top of that, phantom image can be dispelled via mass cancellation, raised Vampires cant.
Now both spells are strong but I would argue summoning Devils, Fairy dragons and summoning Venom spawns are the 3 best summons, with the devil one by far at the top.
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