|
| Thread: What gave rise to the idea of retaliation | |
|
thecastrated
Famous Hero
|
posted September 12, 2023 09:07 AM |
|
|
What gave rise to the idea of retaliation
Who thought of the idea of retaliation? What gave rise to it? It is so unique, exquisite and identifies Homm3
____________
|
|
sirironfist
Known Hero
King of the ogres
|
|
posted September 14, 2023 06:54 PM |
|
|
"You hit me, so I hit you." This must have already been an ancient code of behaviour when we still lived on trees.
No, seriously, this seems like an odd question, but maybe it is not. Compare Homm with chess and it becomes something worth thinking about, because in chess there's no retaliation. Of course, there can't be, because in chess things don't have hp, they just die when attacked.
Without retaliation the combat would probably have gotten less tactical. There wouldn't be an immediate price to pay for attacking something. Also, as soon as there's the "wait" mechanic, it becomes a necessity, because otherwise I think it's obvious what fast units would do to slow ones, as nasty harpy hags do with poor little dwarves all the time.
It wasn't new in Heroes 3, though, Heroes 1 already had it.
What is it that made you think it was so "unique and exquisite?"
|
|
Panda_Tar
Adventuring Hero
CH mascot and right-wing
|
|
posted September 14, 2023 08:50 PM |
|
|
Probably, the question should be about H4's simultaneous retaliation, given it was the first time it deviated from the way it had always been in the series.
Regardless, both situations are logical, right? Either you are being only reactive, as in H1, 2 and 3, or preemptive, as in H4. It was a cool addition in H4, having an added mechanic of first strike as an edge upon the simultaneous reaction. It also made you not to be too casual with your units.
____________
Biology doesn't care about morality.
|
|
Groovy
Hired Hero
|
|
posted September 14, 2023 09:59 PM |
|
|
Panda_Tar said:
Probably, the question should be about H4's simultaneous retaliation, given it was the first time it deviated from the way it had always been in the series.
H4 just copied Magic The Gathering, which has simultaneous retaliation.
|
|
NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
|
|
posted September 15, 2023 06:04 AM |
|
|
Groovy said:
Panda_Tar said:
Probably, the question should be about H4's simultaneous retaliation, given it was the first time it deviated from the way it had always been in the series.
H4 just copied Magic The Gathering, which has simultaneous retaliation.
MTG is quite different however, the blocking creatures decide who to fight, and not otherwise.
However the magic was copied off MTG, in fact H4 heroes are like the later Planeswalkers as cards (that didn't exist yet  )
____________
|
|
baronus
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 15, 2023 09:21 AM |
|
|
|
I gives a lot of depth! You cant simply attack unit. You must think what you lost if you do It this way! Its wonderfull. And its hardcore of Heroes strategy. Might and Magics works another.
|
|
heymlich
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 16, 2023 07:45 AM |
|
|
|
Master of Magic has it, too.
|
|
Panda_Tar
Adventuring Hero
CH mascot and right-wing
|
|
posted September 16, 2023 09:28 AM |
|
|
I always pondered for a more varied reaction system for Heroes games, instead of pure retaliation. Some spells add a touch, but it's not the same. I think one of the most recent installments had a centaur that would move away to perform ranged retaliation. In Heroes 4, we had minotaur's ability to parry incoming attacks (at the point of becoming really annoying at times).
I liked Final Fantasy Tactics range of abilities. This is the list, for those who want to take a peek:
1. Counter Tackle: a pushing-like attack
2. Counter: regular counter attack
3. Magick Counter: same spell
4. Parry
5. First Strike
6. Vigilance: assumes a defensive stance
7. Sticky Fingers: block and acquire thrown items to own inventory
8. Shiharadori: raises physical non ranged attacks
9. Archer's Bane: dodges arrows and bolts
10. Reflexes: raises evasion, physical and some magical
11. Bonecrusher: when in critical state, inflicts damage equal to one's max HP
12. Critical: Quick: when wounded critically, gains immediate turn
13. Critical: Recover HP: chance to fully restore HP when critically wounded
14. Critical: Recover MP: chance to fully restore MP when critically wounded
15. Vanish: becomes transparent
16. Soulbind: split damage with the attacker (like Pain Reflection spell)
17. Cup of Life: exceeding healing is distributed to allies
18. Regenerator: self-casts Regen
19. Auto-Potion: chance to use a healing potion available in inventory (prioritizes weakest potions)
20. Dragonheart: self-cast Reraise/Auto-life
21. Nature's Wrath: counter attacks physical or geomancy with geomancy
22. Gil Snapper: gains gil equal to the same amount of damage taken
23. Absorb MP: gains MP equally to that consumed by enemy (it's not draining from enemy MP pool)
24. Earplug: blocks speechcraft (Mediator's ability)
25. Mana Shield: damage taken is absorbed by MP pool first
26. Adrenaline Rush: raises speed when damaged physically
27. Fury: raises physical attack power
28. Magick Boost: raises magical attack power
29. Bravery Boost: increases Bravery when damaged physically
30. Faith Boost: increases Faith when inflicted with magic
31. Reflect (unused): auto-casts Reflect
Some status skills may also inspire reaction abilities:
1. Float (immunity to earth-based spells and terrain effects)
2. Regen
3. Haste
4. Protect (physical resistance)
5. Shell (magical resistance)
6. Invisible (can't be targeted by physical attacks, only magick)
7. Reraise
8. Berserk (improves attack power, but loses control)
9. Reflect (blocks spells which target each square individually)
10. Atheist (ignores magical effects of any kind, either harmful and healing, casting and absorbing)
11. Faith (boosts magical effects of any kind, damage taken, healing provided, either when casting and when being targeted)
12. Vampire (it's considered an ailment: attacks the closest enemy and drains HP. All evasion values goes to O, you can't react and can't control the character. If there's no enemy at range, they attack an ally. Human units turn into vampires when attack. All allies under the vampire status causes a game over)
13. Undead (healing and killing spells have opposite roles. Raise/Arise causes 50% max-HP damage and spell Death fully heals)
And Movement skills:
1. Treasure Hunter: will procure items on certain scripted places
2. Move + 1, + 2, + 3: adds range for movement
3. Jump + 1, + 2, + 3: adds height for movement
4. Lifefont: recovers a small amount of HP after moving
5. Manafont: recovers a small amount of MP after moving
6. Teleport: can fail at great distances
7. Master Teleportation: few bosses have this. They can teleport anywhere
8. Accrue XP: gains a small amount of Experience after moving
9. Accrue JP: gains a small amount of Job Points after moving
10. Levitate: constant Float status
11. Fly: ignore height, obstacles, enemies and terrain effects between two locations
12. Waterwalking: move or even stop over water
13. Waterbreathing: move or even stop when submerged in depth 3 (specific monster ability)
14. Cannot Enter Water (most monsters ability)
15. Lavawalking
16. Ignore terrain: move unimpeded even through watery terrain
17. Ignore height: jump at any height, regardless jump value
18. Swim: swim through or even act in deep water
*Swim and waterwalking feel similar. In FFT, if you move into deep water, you are immediately halted and you cannot act/react. Also, as the game has a weather system, Lightning spells inflict higher damage.
____________
Biology doesn't care about morality.
|
|
NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
|
|
posted September 17, 2023 06:27 PM |
|
|
In H4 we have Magic Mirror that returns spells at 50% strenght. There is also Fire Wall which returns 33% of melee damage as fire damage. And there is also Mirror of Revenge that returns 50% ranged or melee damage for three turns.
As for me I would like "Magic retaliation": If a creature or hero is the target of a magic spell, they use a spell of their own to retaliate (even if the spells do no damage/are curses).
____________
|
|
baronus
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 18, 2023 12:12 PM |
|
|
|
Its little unnatural shooters retalitation because in fight face to face unit must doing something if enemy attack to not die. But shooting?! Its no must. Rather retreat form danger area. Taking place and try to retalitate under fire is stupid solution. But its game. Magic retalitation is harder because only some unit can. Mages Genies Eyes and Witches only. Maybe cross retalitation? Mages vs shooters and reverse. So simply adding magic units to shooters. The same melee!!! If its face to face and mages casting logical is physical counterattack. Now its nothing. Simply unit has counterattack always if its possible. Like blocked shooters. Retalitation is melee even though its shooter.
|
| |
|
|
