Gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted February 02, 2025 12:53 PM
Galaad said:
Hmmm… Something I noticed on the Temple of the Four Scholars is that it increases the level of a visiting hero’s spells. That implies a few different potential spell mechanics:
1) It could just be that it improves a visiting hero’s magic skills, which is the boring but probably safeway to do this.
2) It could imply that heroes have a “magic talent” stat that’s separate from skills and attributes, and which determines the maximum level of spell that they can cast. I’ll call this the “weird” option, since that’s traditionally been covered by skills (Wisdom in H3, and the elemental/ spell school of the associated skill in 4/5), so I don’t expect that’s what this is.
3) It could imply that the hero’s spells level up with them, potentially adding another form of scaling other than just skills and spell power to them. For example, a hero with the Arcane Arrow [Level 1] spell reaches level 3 or visits a Temple of the Four Scholars, and their Arcane Arrow becomes [level 2], allowing them to select a second stack to target when they cast it, or increasing its scaling from (hypothetically), 10+4*Spell Power to 20+5*Spell Power. Similarly, level 1 Slow could be single target and apply -2 Initiative and -1 movement, and level 2 Slow could make it affect all hostile creatures adjacent to the target, or it could increase the penalty to -3 initiative and -1/2 movement. The levels would definitely have to be limited, probably to 3 per spell.
I’d call 3 the “interesting but complicated method, since that would require making scaling effects for every spell, and being careful to keep levels from providing redundant levels to spells that get modified by skills or skill specializations. Still, could be neat to have “basic” versions of spells, “advanced” (like or expert) versions, and “master” (or signature) spells.
It's been confirmed that spells have levels on top of tiers. I hope it's not just a hero stat, but something more meaningful that changes how spells work. If done properly, it should be something like 3.
Likeliest scenario to me:
- knowledge and spellpower are the magic stats like in Heroes 3.
- tier is the unlock condition also hinting at how impactful the spell is compared to others.
- level is what changes/expands how the spell works.
My concern is that level will somehow turn out to be another variety of knowledge and spellpower, or have significant overlap. Basically more damage and cost reduction. That would be a letdown.
____________ Guide to a Great Heroes Game The Young Traveler
My guess is that spell level is replacing magic school skills. Rather than having Expert Earth Magic giving you all Earth spells at Expert power, you need to level up your spells individually from Basic to Advanced to Expert.
Gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted February 02, 2025 04:40 PM
Stevie said:My concern is that level will somehow turn out to be another variety of knowledge and spellpower, or have significant overlap. Basically more damage and cost reduction. That would be a letdown.
This is why my ideas were extra targets for the missile and making a single-target spell into an AoE, because a "Spell mastery" system should be interesting, not just "Big number get bigger." Cost reduction might be all some spells, like your traditional insanely expensive but powerful Implosion, needs, though, or a reduction in the team-killing potential of certain spells (Say, Fireball and Armageddon reduce damage to the spellcaster's army by 33% per mastery level).
As long as the lower tier spell masteries (1-3) do unique and still useful things that helps low-tier spells scale into the later game via increased utility, that would be enough for me. The higher tier spells won't need to be as flashy when mastered, they should already be ridiculous at a baseline.
Syth1984 said:Is there a way to join the close beta without having discord?
Some idiot court banned discord in my country :/. Thanks for the answers.
even with discord you can t! I apllied since beggining and no invitation; They are saying soon that s all we got but without Discord I doubt it is possible! Good luck!
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
Quote: - There will be options in Classic mode to have Remote Footholds (optional) that let you garrison armies and items for another hero to pick from any other Remote Foothold and for both Classic and Outcast mode a spell called "Assemble!" that lets you transfer items and armies between the caster and a hero for mana.
It's worrisome that this is their answer to chaining because it tells me they do not understand the problem. It's as if they think the chaining problem is about sending troops from town the heroes, or worse, that something like Assemble helps the problem instead of making it worse
Quote: - There will be options in Classic mode to have Remote Footholds (optional) that let you garrison armies and items for another hero to pick from any other Remote Foothold and for both Classic and Outcast mode a spell called "Assemble!" that lets you transfer items and armies between the caster and a hero for mana.
It's worrisome that this is their answer to chaining because it tells me they do not understand the problem. It's as if they think the chaining problem is about sending troops from town the heroes, or worse, that something like Assemble helps the problem instead of making it worse
What do you believe to be the problem?
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Quote: - There will be options in Classic mode to have Remote Footholds (optional) that let you garrison armies and items for another hero to pick from any other Remote Foothold and for both Classic and Outcast mode a spell called "Assemble!" that lets you transfer items and armies between the caster and a hero for mana.
It's worrisome that this is their answer to chaining because it tells me they do not understand the problem. It's as if they think the chaining problem is about sending troops from town the heroes, or worse, that something like Assemble helps the problem instead of making it worse
What do you believe to be the problem?
The thing about chaining is it basically lets one army teleport all over the map. Instead of having separate heroes each with their own army, you end up with a single mega army that's passed around between heroes like they're playing catch. It feels super weird and doesn't make sense thematically. It also breaks the game movement limits because your units can move way more than they're supposed to. Plus, you're forced into buying heroes not because you need more leaders with unique armies, but just to boost how much your one big army can move. This meas the main army can pop up anywhere a hero is. In multiplayer is frustrating because you can't target weak heroes or towns. They all share the same force, there aren't weak spots. Your army is everywhere at once, which just isn't good gameplay.
Quote: - There will be options in Classic mode to have Remote Footholds (optional) that let you garrison armies and items for another hero to pick from any other Remote Foothold and for both Classic and Outcast mode a spell called "Assemble!" that lets you transfer items and armies between the caster and a hero for mana.
It's worrisome that this is their answer to chaining because it tells me they do not understand the problem. It's as if they think the chaining problem is about sending troops from town the heroes, or worse, that something like Assemble helps the problem instead of making it worse
What do you believe to be the problem?
The thing about chaining is it basically lets one army teleport all over the map. Instead of having separate heroes each with their own army, you end up with a single mega army that's passed around between heroes like they're playing catch. It feels super weird and doesn't make sense thematically. It also breaks the game movement limits because your units can move way more than they're supposed to. Plus, you're forced into buying heroes not because you need more leaders with unique armies, but just to boost how much your one big army can move. This meas the main army can pop up anywhere a hero is. In multiplayer is frustrating because you can't target weak heroes or towns. They all share the same force, there aren't weak spots. Your army is everywhere at once, which just isn't good gameplay.
I see - your presumption here, as I understand it, is that we want to get rid of chaining in Classic mode. We don't - instead we're offering tools to people who want to be less reliant on it. Does it have the potential to backfire? Yes, like any other feature that's new, but that's exactly why it's something that will be verified once we have significant, live feedback about it.
Besides, there's always the Outcast mode that you can play if you want to avoid chaining altogether. ____________
The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
channeling capybara energy
posted March 12, 2025 12:34 AM
Yep, most interested in the duel mode And the soundtrack, which should kick major butt and which should be available for purchase either bundled with the game, or sold separately.
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Friend-shaped
Quote: - There will be options in Classic mode to have Remote Footholds (optional) that let you garrison armies and items for another hero to pick from any other Remote Foothold and for both Classic and Outcast mode a spell called "Assemble!" that lets you transfer items and armies between the caster and a hero for mana.
It's worrisome that this is their answer to chaining because it tells me they do not understand the problem. It's as if they think the chaining problem is about sending troops from town the heroes, or worse, that something like Assemble helps the problem instead of making it worse
What do you believe to be the problem?
The thing about chaining is it basically lets one army teleport all over the map. Instead of having separate heroes each with their own army, you end up with a single mega army that's passed around between heroes like they're playing catch. It feels super weird and doesn't make sense thematically. It also breaks the game movement limits because your units can move way more than they're supposed to. Plus, you're forced into buying heroes not because you need more leaders with unique armies, but just to boost how much your one big army can move. This meas the main army can pop up anywhere a hero is. In multiplayer is frustrating because you can't target weak heroes or towns. They all share the same force, there aren't weak spots. Your army is everywhere at once, which just isn't good gameplay.
I see - your presumption here, as I understand it, is that we want to get rid of chaining in Classic mode. We don't - instead we're offering tools to people who want to be less reliant on it. Does it have the potential to backfire? Yes, like any other feature that's new, but that's exactly why it's something that will be verified once we have significant, live feedback about it.
Besides, there's always the Outcast mode that you can play if you want to avoid chaining altogether.
I never said you wanted to remove chaining.
But from your reply, it just seems like you might not fully get how chaining actually impacts gameplay. Why do I think that? Because someone (Syth1984) brought up chaining as an issue, and your response wasn’t something like, "We don't see chaining as a problem, it’s actually a core mechanic we love." That would've made sense, end of story.
Instead, you responded by saying there are alternative modes and mentioned stuff in classic mode that actually makes chaining worse. If someone brings up a concern and the response is basically highlighting things that either amplify the problem or don't address it at all, then yeah, it does feel like maybe you don’t fully get how chaining affects things. That makes me wonder if chaining’s inclusion isn’t because you genuinely believe it makes the game better, but simply because it existed in other Heroes.
And if features are included just because "that's how Heroes did it," rather than because the devs genuinely understand their effects, it worries me about the overall design, personal preferences aside.
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Well.. In H5 chaining wasn't much of a problem. It depends on the game's features like how cheap heroes are, how many you can hire, how tight the economy is.. and what map you are even playing.
Most H5 maps played online you had the goal of castle/capitol/t7 during week 2 so overindulging in heroes could make one of those non feasible. The maps also did not tend to have a lot of free goodies lying around unprotected nor could you freely explore most of the map without clearing neutrals. It also had caravans so you could have the units from dwellings arrive at your town without heroes coming and going. You'd still want a chain of 3-4 heroes towards your main before the final fight around week 3-4 but still.
My point is, I don't think that chaining is the real issue. It is the maps or templates that can allow it to get out of hand. I obviously don't like to see a chain of several heroes but nor do I want H4 mechanics where each unit had their own adventure map movement.
So what would concern me is..
- Will heroes really be restricted by the slowest unit's movement? (Extra shenanigants of leaving slow units in towns or mines)
- Can you hire too many heroes cheaply? H5 also had escalating prices so for every hero the cost went up.
- Are there caravans?
- Are the main maps or RMG templates having a lot of free stuff?
- How accessible are the hero abilities that let you assemble units? I remember there will be footholds that can send units between them but what about the hero spell/abilities? Will they be in specific skills that you may or not get? Will they be unlocked in town? Etc. If ie town portal is tied to a specific magic school, this is bad. If the new abilities are specifically tied to ie leadership or logistics, this is also bad. Either you'll be forced to pick one of those or all of them will get similar abilities like divinity original sin 2 put a teleport move in basically every class.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
LordCameron
Famous Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
posted March 12, 2025 04:42 PM
My own homebrew solution is that once heroes have traded, no heroes may move for the rest of the turn. Heroes with a useless skill (I was using First Aid) may continue to move, ignoring this restriction.
I could see a Logistic skill or something be dedicated to allowing chaining, but otherwise the heroes run out of movement.
In this video, we would like to cover one of the most critical features of the game necessary for both PvP and PvE scenes to work: Templates! Join us as we showcase some examples of what you will be able to play in Olden Era, presented by none other than Ana from "Heroes Take Turns", who'll be our Guest Speaker for the next few videos!
Much more to come soon, as this is just the first of many videos we have planned! Don't forget to follow us on our socials so you don't miss the updates!
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This thread is pages long: 
posted February 02, 2025 12:53 PM
Desperate times desperate measures I guess 
