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| Thread: NWC/3DO developers!!! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted July 06, 2002 11:54 AM |
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Edited By: Djive on 6 Jul 2002
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Adding levels to creatures would complicate game-play a lot, while adding little to strategy. Stacks sizes of bigger than one and creature XP just don’t go along well. (Problems with merging and rearranging armies. Often this leads to a form of micro-management that becomes time-consuming.)
The best is to view the creatures as fully trained when you purchase them.
For similar reasons I would like new creatures instead of upgrades which are almost copies of earlier creatures. The decision to remove the upgrade system was a good one. I only wish they had added MORE “standalone” creatures when they did so. Similarly, I wish that they had kept the number of towns, and had kept the door open for more towns. The symmetry between the magic towns makes it a lot more difficult to add new towns, so the logical effect is that we won’t see any new towns in the expansions.
This doesn’t mean that creatures cannot become fighters in combat, but it means that a creature XP/upgrades is best hidden with things that hare singular. The two most straight-forward ways to implement an easy XP or Upgrade system is through Heroes or Artifacts.
For Heroes it can be done by introducing a Creature Speciality for the Hero. This speciality can increase attack, defence, speed, morale etcetera when the Hero and creature are present on the battlefield. The Hero could also grant the creature a new special ability.
The speciality could either be purchased with the hero or be trained at special Map locations. A hero would only be able to specialise in creatures of the same alignment as the hero. The bonus that the hero bestows may or may not depend on the Hero’s level.
For Artifacts they can work in several ways. One way is to have the Artifact accumulate XP (whenever there are fighting creatures of the appropriate sort on the battlefield) rather than the creature stack. This would remove the problems you get when you want to add or remove creatures from the stack, since the XP no longer is associated to the stack. The benefit the Artifacts gives would only depend on the XP it has accumulated. Not on the amount of creatures it is to affect.
Another is to have an Artifact give a bonus to a certain creature’s combat values, or it could give a certain creature a special ability. Relics could even give every creature a certain ability like First Strike or could give creatures with Spellcasting ability access to a new spell. These effects are best as additional effects to another existing effect, as the Artifact would be useless otherwise. (And useless Artifacts is something I don’t like.)
Both Heroes and Artifacts could be made to upgrade certain creatures, the same way as Dracon or Gelu works. In heroes 4 there are very few creatures which can be upgraded like this so each upgrade of this type would likely result in a new creature altogether.
One thing, which is good with this approach is that the creature’s appearance doesn’t have to change. It’s still the same creature.
I've created a new thread to discuss alterantive ways of making creatures storonger. So please post your replies there.
If you want to discuss creature XP there is an old thread which you can continue on or read the discussion in. Creature Experience (just another wish, eh...)
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted July 08, 2002 10:36 AM |
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You may be right about the increased complexity of units levelling up. Differently experienced stacks create problems, that's true. I agree on the similarity of the towns, they're a bit tied to the 'Magic the Gathering'-way of opposite and friendly alignments. This makes it very hard to add new towns in future expansions. I definitely don't like the idea about the specialty, it would be dangerous for the delicate game-balance. I don't quite like the idea of the artifacts too. Artifacts gaining experience? How would that work, would the hero carry those artifacts or would the creatures do so? Seems rather complicated to me too. Nah, maybe no upgrades after all. Though the idea of veteran units still sounds nice to me.
Eh, Djive, in your new thread I read that this one would be off topic? If you read the first few posts, you'll see it isn't. This creature upgrade thingy is just one of the proposals for changes that have been made here. I've yet thought of another idea to increase the number of creatures/towns and add an additional level of stragegy to the game. The fact that the towns are aligned in a five-pointed star makes it tough to add new towns. Also, many people are complaining about the mixing of the towns. This solution covers both of these problems and fixes them. As an example I'll take the current necropolis. Early in the building of the town, you'll have to decide which direction you'll take. Proceed with undead, or proceed with demons (ex-inferno troops). This is a one way choice, there's no way to ever construct buildings producing undead units once you've chosen to build out the demon-side of the necropolis. 8 new creatures would be needed in each town, for example zombie, mummy, lich, dread knight for the necro part, and demon, pit lord, succubus, balrog for the demon part. Several buildings such as the necromancy amplifier would only be constructible if the necro-choice would've been made. I think this would add a huge amount of depth in the game and it would almost double the amount of creatures.
BTW, is that a dark templar Dark Maniac?
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~Vegetables don't spam~
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nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted July 10, 2002 04:26 PM |
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Ideas so far:
- Level 5 units: Chaos Hydra, Rust Dragon, ...
- Combinable creatures: Trolls mounted on nightmares, ...
- Heroes have special features according to the town they belong to: necromancers being skeletal or undead, ...
- Experience upgrades/veteran units: Eternal Phoenix, ...
- Day and night turns, with specific advantages/disadvantages for certain alignments: undead have more speed at night, ...
- Seasons in maps: increase of desert/snow areas in particular months, ...
- Creatures gaining appropriate combat skills upon levelling up: magic school for spellcasters, ...
- Create a real life asylum for heroes players with dented heads on a remote island in the pacific ...
- No stacking of differently experienced stacks/stacking as an army is showed on the adventure map ...
- Creature stats improving upon levelling up: defense rating, health points, ...
- Heroes having creature specialties: granting the creature stack a new special ability, ...
- Artifacts giving creatures certain bonuses: first strike, new spell, ...
- Two different creature paths in each town: undead and demon path in the necropolis, ...
New idea: Why not add siege spells to the game. There are several adventuring spells, many combat spells, but no spells directly affecting siege combat. I'm thinking about things like barricade to reïnforce or repair the town gate. Or a spell that allows you to pour burning oil into the moat, scorching anyone bold enough to approach the walls. Maybe a spell directly damaging the town gate, now this is not possible and you have to sacrifice a stack of creatures to open the gate. I think that'd be cool.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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~Vegetables don't spam~
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