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| Thread: Your and my favourite aligment and the ones you don't like in heroes 3. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted June 21, 2016 07:56 PM |
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No, they are just faster, can teleport and got no retaliation. It makes them able to win fights the dragons can't.
Pit Lords - It has been said so many times that I have lost count, they are powerful because they can create a huge demon stack (like Necromancy creates skeletons), not their health. And despite their weak nature their offense is potent.
Demons may not have a special ability, but their numbers makes one tremble. Besides, what you find boring have nothing to do with how the creatures perform.
Once again, please try to play like multiplayer is played vs the map on your own using the tools and guides I gave you. It will help you improve and reduce the amounts of ??? in your head regarding the answers you get here on the forums.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted June 21, 2016 07:56 PM |
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I understand the town is not for you, but please remember what is expensive to you may not be expensive for us, it depends a lot on playstyle.
I don't remember having problems affording the units I needed, or building up the town.
Another thing, most towns do indeed have overall (when looking on all levels) preferable units to the Inferno, because the low tier Inferno units aren't very impressive. You are correct that Cerberus is actually a good unit for its level, but it also have better uses than what is typical for most units of different towns. So if you compare the Inferno lineup to most other towns and you see Familiars, Magogs and Cerberi aren't very impressive, neither are Demons, if you ignore Demon Farming, you've 50% of the total amount of units being not very impressive. No wonder you don't like the town when you then go ahead and compare the units one by one.. but it just doesn't have anything to do with the game.
The value of the town lineup will depend on the best units, not on the average strength of all the units with every tier looked at as equal important. The best example in my opinion is to compare e.g. the skeletons and the zombies of Necropolis. A legion of skeletons and 80 zombies still defeats 110 Halberdiers and 80 Marksmen, but if you just say Skeletons > Halberdiers, Marksmen > Zombies, it's a tie, it gets a little ridiculous in my opinion. The zombies won't matter, and the Skeletons would win this fight alone.
Inferno gets more out of taking enemy towns, because from most towns the low level units can be converted to Demons, this gives a final lineup with:
Demons (unimpressive if not for the numbers, therefore very powerful stack), Pit Lords (nothing special for the end battle), Efreeti Sultans (powerful 6th level unit, strong stack, fastest not-level-7 unit), Archdevils (powerful 7th level unit, strong stack, second fastest 7th level unit (3rd with Conflux)).
You are also correct that e.g. Archdevils do not have the same potential as other units when it comes to the main battle, because of their low damage, but it doesn't make them as bad as you make them out to be, in my opinion they're probably the second best 7th level unit.
But since you seem to like to compare units to one another, why don't you take a stack of 100 archdevils and put them up against other lvl 7 dragons at a stack of 100 and see who wins?
Also you're underestimating how much speed 14 does for the Efreeti Sultans.
Finally you don't have to use Inferno heroes. See if there won't pop up a Barbarian in your tavern. Since you spend 5 weeks to build up your town anyway, you ought to have plenty of time to find something better.
Ebonheart said:
And how in the world does Dungeon's Portal of summoning aid the town's cause unless there is a flagged dwelling on the map?
I'm sure he flags the level 7 dwelling just outside his town on day 1 and gets +2 Dragons from week 1. 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 21, 2016 08:01 PM |
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Well, you both may be wrong on this. Years ago, WCL tournament kept saves from online championats and maretti will for ever remember how he lost to one russian guy.
Ivan selected dungeon and shakti, then flagged 2 dragon dwellings on day 2-3 (thats a lot of luck I agree, to find them so early). Then portal gave +2 until day 8, +2 from map dwels and game was over day 9. I studied that game. So yes portal can win or at least help to win games, proof 
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Era II mods and utilities
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted June 21, 2016 08:15 PM |
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I have seen it aswell, and luck is part of the game. However the portal does not reduce gold costs, it only requires less chaining (which can ofc bring in more gold). But since you can't control it, it is a gamble with several dwells present.
Alas, there will always be exceptions, but this applies to every town and if we are to list all exceptions that can make certain buildings better, then we will be stuck for months Sal.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 21, 2016 08:19 PM |
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Ebonheart said:
But since you can't control it, it is a gamble with several dwells present.
And this is where smart planning comes into. Once you scouted your area, you will know which dwells to flag and which not. You wouldn't risk losing 2-3 dragons for 36 additional trogs.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted June 21, 2016 08:34 PM |
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Certainly, but that can work against the player aswell if you get e.g. one 7th dwell and 2x lv 5 dwells. It is a handy building at certain times, but it takes away one day of building.
However, preferences differ. I for one avoid Dungeon like the plague and stick to Tower, Inferno and Stronghold.
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Anil
Known Hero
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posted June 21, 2016 11:06 PM |
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Sorry but I am completely disagree. I think demon farming is useles without diplomacy and without marius. This is just trade hp by hp.
I don t like barbarians because they cannot learn water magic.
Efreet and archdevil aren t powerful. Efreet is easily weaker than dread knight naga queen and magic ele. And war unicorn and champion are following to the rank togethet efreet.
Archdevil is only better than ghost dragon. Yes archdevil can beat behemoths but behemonts are more cheap and have plenty of hp.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted June 21, 2016 11:18 PM |
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Go ahead and make 2 equal heroes one with 100 Archdevils and one with 100 Black Dragons or 100 Gold Dragons and let them face off then.
You're likely to be surprised, not that it'll change much, it's just very annoying how you keep on persisting on your guesses and methods to be true when we know you are a little slow with the in-game development.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 21, 2016 11:21 PM |
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I think is pretty clear this discussion is leading nowhere.
We are back to Jolly Joker guides, where, after reading the manual twice and playing vs computer on 60% once, he teaches what to do, using compared values and probabilities while ignoring all map and gameplay diversity and aspects. Or that was 15 years ago. Its just a waste of time today, to have so stubborn ideas, when backed by so little gameplay experience.
Get some good maps, there are plenty on maps4heroes, if you don't have time for MP. They will teach you million more things than mathematical worthless comparisons.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 22, 2016 03:58 AM |
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Anil said:
Sorry but I am completely disagree. I think demon farming is useles without diplomacy and without marius. This is just trade hp by hp.
I don t like barbarians because they cannot learn water magic.
Efreet and archdevil aren t powerful. Efreet is easily weaker than dread knight naga queen and magic ele. And war unicorn and champion are following to the rank togethet efreet.
Archdevil is only better than ghost dragon. Yes archdevil can beat behemoths but behemonts are more cheap and have plenty of hp.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted June 22, 2016 08:16 AM |
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Anil said:
Sorry but I am completely disagree. I think demon farming is useles without diplomacy and without marius. This is just trade hp by hp.
I don t like barbarians because they cannot learn water magic.
Efreet and archdevil aren t powerful. Efreet is easily weaker than dread knight naga queen and magic ele. And war unicorn and champion are following to the rank togethet efreet.
Archdevil is only better than ghost dragon. Yes archdevil can beat behemoths but behemonts are more cheap and have plenty of hp.
Ohforfsake - If I have told you once I have told you a thousand times, less talk, more stinging.
And as for you Galaad, make sure that Ogre swings the club real good, make the coot scoot.
Jokes aside, you think demons are useless Anil? As it so happens I finished a game with one of my friends an hour ago that we have been playing over time due to time zone differences, it lasted to M1W3D3. I made one of my best plays with Inferno this time and was fortunate enough to gain the vial of lifeblood M1W1D7 and my secondary small towns were Castle/Rampart. Only losing 3 Pit Lords and 1 Efreet Sultan vs the map. Both of us had 2nd dwell pre built. My main was Marius as no Barberian showed up in the tavern. Syztem's main was Gurnisson.
The end battle consisted of the following:
Ebonheart - Inferno (Marius - 23): 10x Arch Devils, 17x Efreet Sultans, 64x Wyverns, 23x Pit Lords, 173x Demons, 5x Angels, 1x Familiar.
Vs
Syztemqt - Dungeon (Gurnisson - 24): 9 Black Dragons, 1x Scorpicore, 23 Minotaur Kings, 43 Wyverns, 6 Angels, 42 Medusa Queens, 15x Scorpicores.
Why not expirement a bit Anil? Take the numbers from our end battle above and see how you perform with each of the sides with these odds.
Edit: Just remember that Inferno is a very hard town Anil, do not select it and hope to get the gigantic demon stack in the first try, practise is the key here.
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Anil
Known Hero
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posted June 22, 2016 10:11 PM |
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Yes, Demon farming is useless. Only a bit useful with Marius and with diplomacy. Because;
1) This is trade hp by hp. Necromancy is better than demon farming because this is free. Skeleton is average foot soldier (maybe slighly above-average) demon is worst lvl 4 unit.
2) You should protect pit lords. Pit lords can't to join war until demon farming, because that's vulnerable.
3) If your enemy kill to your 1 unit stacks %90. You cannot rise demons. Because all stacks should be die for demon farming.
Demoniac
Skills 1 2–9 >10
Attack: 2 35% 20%
Defense: 2 35% 20%
Power: 1 15% 30%
Knowledge: 1 15% 30%
Also why demoniacs are inclined Power and Knowledge than attack and defense after lvl 10? I pick might hero but this is looks like a magic hero?
I have never seen video about effective demon farming.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted June 22, 2016 10:29 PM |
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You have never even tried demon farming at this level so what makes you think you can actually proclaim it sucks? It's like saying that an icecream tastes like snow without trying it first.
Necromancy is B A N N E D ! / Diplomacy is B A N N E D ! - Get this on your "Understand list" ASAP.
Protect the Pit Lords? Yes obviously you guard their asses, what makes you think otherwise? They have great melee potential but it does not mean a suicide assault is in order.
As for the 90% mumbo jumbo part - to avoid this, you use something called stratagems - aka raise demons where losses ARE expected, eg Naga Banks, Gryphon Conservatories etc.
Demoniacs are not the best mains but Marius stands out due to the demon power stack. I mean hello Anil, in the end battle from early morning 173 demons alone would have swooped the floor with him, and you call it useless?
Besides, do you actually need a video on how to actually demon farm?
Cause I think what you need, is to A) Read and understand or B) Stop trolling. C) Practise.
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Anil
Known Hero
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posted June 22, 2016 10:53 PM |
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I have tried demon farming and I decided. I prefer 200 gold per pit Lord than Demon Farming ability.
Pit Lords are only better than Master Genie, Zealot and Magma Ele.
So where is trolling? These are fact.
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ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted June 22, 2016 11:10 PM |
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Anil said:
I have tried demon farming and I decided. I prefer 200 gold per pit Lord than Demon Farming ability.
Pit Lords are only better than Master Genie, Zealot and Magma Ele.
So where is trolling? These are fact.
I shall swallow my incredible lust to slam you down with facts and instead ask - how exactly do you measure this? Do you take all attack, hp, defense values, combine them and then tell which unit is best based on which number is highest or what?
If that's the logic, I can proclaim "A automatic gun is more "accurate" than a sniper rifle because "It can fire more rounds than the sniper rifle and so the chance of hitting my target is greater!", without taking in the fact that the sniper rifle is meant to be used for long shots.
Sorry to be so blunt Anil but this is exactly what your reasoning sounds like. You sit and say "Oh this gun is very bad despite its extreme caliber, because there is a rocket launcher available". "That tank is not really good, because there is a aircraft carrier available!".
Perhaps you can understand why you get so many snide answers? = /
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted June 23, 2016 12:15 AM |
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Sometimes you sound a lot like a troll Anil because you claim stuff that you yourself could easily test to be incorrect. Also because you seem to disregard the replies you get, even though they're generally informative, and then you restate what you already wrote once.
You've said again and again that trading equal hp from low tier units to demons doesn't improve, so why don't you just create 7 stacks of low tier units with equal hit point to one demon power stack and see what is better, ignoring that you can't take more than 7 units to battle anyway?
In my opinion it's not automatically wrong to use math on unit stats and the mechanics of the game and determine what is good and what is bad.. but there are 2 issue with your method.
1) First is that you're not applying the game mechanics correctly, which you ought to know since you were told getting your level 7 units week 5 is rather slow when it comes to development. You are telling others what is good, what is bad, that they're wrong, while you yourself haven't mastered the game yet.
2) You don't seem to really test out your claims. E.g. you say AD's are worse than Dragons, but I doubt you've actually tested this out in any way apart from looking at unit stats.
Edit: And I don't start stinging before my victims beg it of me, btw.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted June 23, 2016 07:54 AM |
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OhforfSake said:
I don't start stinging before my victims beg it of me, btw.
How about a tiny sting just to ensure it is still operational?
Anyhow I am now resting my case with this. I have explained this so many times and frankly, the end battle I had yesterday should at least show that the Inferno is a force to be reckoned with if played correctly with a little bit of luck.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted June 23, 2016 09:41 AM |
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I'm afraid he/she just won't bother to start up the editor and test things out, sadly. A lot of the claims is something he/she could have tested for himself/herself before hand.
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Anil
Known Hero
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posted June 23, 2016 09:49 PM |
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I tested 100 Archdevil and other 100 lvl 7 unit. Archdevil suprisingly can beats dragons. But cannot beat Phoenix,Archangel and Ancient Behemonth. I am sorry I was wrong.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted June 23, 2016 11:40 PM |
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Every long journey starts with one single step.
Now try a battle between 2 heroes using the end fight lineup I stated in one of my previous posts and see what you think of the 173 demons. It might open up your eyes and make you realise that numbers matter sometimes, but that the ingame experience can be very different.
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