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Regimantas
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 20, 2004 12:29 AM |
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ok u have to fight against it, i agree
but please explain me, why iraq and is it the only reason?
as i said earlier, i dont understand why to attack  only to free iraqiis from saddam - nah i dont think so
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 20, 2004 01:07 AM |
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Quote:
When people are being slaughtered for no apparent reason, it's not an internal matter, it's a global matter.
Yeah, just as conquering world markets, oil reserves and achieving geostrategical goals is a global matter for USA, rather than internal.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
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posted April 20, 2004 02:14 AM |
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Does it matter what our reasons were? The US along with others routed a maniacal dictator. Therefore, making the world a better place in the long run. Show some respect.
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"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted April 20, 2004 02:31 AM |
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"The end justifies the means"
However, just imagine if Chamberlain or other leaders in the 1930's chose to stop Hitler. I would be willing to bet, conversations like this would be going on, and people would be bad mouthing the leaders who took him out before he killed 12 million people.
People are supposed to learn from history, not repeat it.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 20, 2004 02:31 AM |
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Respect, fellow. Both for getting rid of the dictator and messing up a whole country (or more) in the process.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
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posted April 20, 2004 02:49 AM |
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Don't try that. It's just a matter of time. Wait till June 1, then you'll see.
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"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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redhawk
Known Hero
Gaurdian Supreme
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posted April 20, 2004 03:03 AM |
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Aquaman, Explain june 1 for me ?
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It's better to burn out, Than fade away !!!!!!!!
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Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
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posted April 20, 2004 03:14 AM |
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I may be wrong, but isn't that the hand-over date?
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"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted April 20, 2004 03:18 AM |
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Quote:
"The end justifies the means"
However, just imagine if Chamberlain or other leaders in the 1930's chose to stop Hitler. I would be willing to bet, conversations like this would be going on, and people would be bad mouthing the leaders who took him out before he killed 12 million people.
People are supposed to learn from history, not repeat it.
This was an enligtening example of word compiolation.
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What are you up to
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted April 20, 2004 03:22 AM |
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Thank you...I think...?
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redhawk
Known Hero
Gaurdian Supreme
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posted April 20, 2004 03:31 AM |
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Aquaman, it is june 30th.But we are not going to just pull out and go home,it's going to take awile, maybe another year.
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It's better to burn out, Than fade away !!!!!!!!
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Regimantas
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 20, 2004 02:21 PM |
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ye u now have to stay for some time coz otherwise civil war is guaranteed. but on the other hand staying for longer time = more osamas. thats my opinion.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted April 20, 2004 10:37 PM |
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If we pull out on June 30th, we leave a war torn country (like Somalia and Afghanistan) and cause more problems later on.
If we stay until the job is done, which only makes sence, there is a democracy in the Middle East.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 21, 2004 02:05 AM |
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Quote:
If we stay until the job is done, which only makes sence, there is a democracy in the Middle East.
Time will tell about that, but if you take a lesson from experience (Kosovo), than it's more probably that you'll lead the country in civil war, and thus making it to fall apart. And this is a very likely scenario considereing the various ethnic groups in Iraq.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted April 21, 2004 02:21 AM |
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How is the US to blame for the breakup of Yugoslavia?
And the US had nothing to do with the boarders of the Middle Eastern countries, that would be Britain and France.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 21, 2004 03:25 AM |
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First, I'm not talking about the break-up of Yugoslavia (although this is also a debatable subject), but about the NATO bombing in Kosovo and the current separatist tendencies, which no doubt sooner or later will lead to independence.
Also, I didn't said USA had smth with Middle Eastern borders, but that they probably will give a contribution to this area also.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted April 21, 2004 04:09 AM |
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I Agree With Svarog
I don't necessarily agree with Svarog on a great many issues.
However this is the time I agree with him completely. This is a region of many different beliefs and cultures. If I'm not mistaken, the state was created by Brittain. I think they need a sense of their own identity. I personally believe that Iraq was already on it's way to civil war and now the U.S. has acted as a catalyst to speed up the time it would have taken for them to actually go to civil war. I believe the first and necessary step in an Iraqi civil war is to push the americans out.
I also believe that civil war is a necessary experience if a country is to grow with strength of conviction in its beliefs.
I normally avoid this thread like the plague but Svarog speaks as I feel on the matter.
Civil war will come to Iraq. It is only a short matter of time now that the U.S. has invaded.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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redhawk
Known Hero
Gaurdian Supreme
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posted May 07, 2004 09:28 AM |
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Since hc was down and we lost so much discussion, I thought I might touch on the treatment of Iraqi Prisoners of war. Let me start by saying that I am discusted and appalled by the actions of the gaurds over there, They need to be courtmartialed and sent to leavenworth prison for about a decade of hard labor and azzwoopings. My second thought for you is that those gaurds are not Infantry, they are millitary police, who in my opinion are nothing more than low grade pondscum rentacops with bad atitudes and no moral character.I never have trusted any of them. Please don't get the wrong impression of u.s soldiers we are not like that. millitary police are not soldiers as far as I am concerned. 3rd., If you look close at the pictures you may notice that some of the foul perpetratores are female. Not that that matters just goes to show that women can be just as much a piece of garbage as men can be.I hope that my fellow heroes out there will not place me in the same catogory as those people. To all of you out there I will apologise for the actions of those that commited those crimes and I assure you, they will be brought to trial and punished. Millitary courtmartials are alot tougher on criminals than the civillian ones, so they will get very harsh sentences for there crimes. All of this is my own opinion and does not reflect that of any other soldier or of the millitary as I cannot speak in there behalf.
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It's better to burn out, Than fade away !!!!!!!!
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 07, 2004 12:21 PM |
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Dear redhawk,
iīm pretty sure, that every intelligent man (and woman) wonīt think that ALL US soldiers are doing their job like this. I was pretty shocked when i saw these photos first time. But in my opinion, those treatments happened in nearly ALL wars in past times. Sure in tchechenia, in ex-yugoslavia, ruanda....and so on...
But no pictures reached us, so we hadnīt any evidence.
I think, that in the army (though the mp is not the army..), there are many different kind of characters of men, same as it is in normal business jobs.
U will always meet people with bad attitudes, and when they get a chance to show them up, the will do that.
Iīm very confident, that most of the soldiers of ALL countries know very well how to handle with prisoners and war victims.
I donīt bear a grudge against you coz of this occurrences.
And i donīt think itīs correct to blame Rumsfeld for that "scandal".
Bring these soldiers (esp. that woman!) to justice and show the rest of the world, that this is NOT america....
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted May 07, 2004 02:00 PM |
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I'd just like to mention that the recent British pictures as published in the Mirror are almost certainly fakes. Not saying we don't do that stuff, but it sure shows that people will make a profit from anything these days. Khayman's right though, prisoner torture is a common thing from both soldiers and MPs. I would add though that it might not necessarily in a lot of cases be that the person doing the torture is evil or bad. That sounds silly, but what I mean is that the pressures and problems soldiers in a country like Iraq or France in WWII for example can often drive them over the edge and force them into actions they would not rationally take. Crimes of passion if you like, which whilst not excusable completely, are understandable. I would reccomend looking into the events prior to what this woman did, and whilst I'm not saying it did happen, if say her best friend had been blown up in a bomb attack the day before... well lets say I would understand why she would do it a bit more.
There is IMO an enormous amount of difference between heated actions taken without rational thought and cold blooded war crimes. Whilst I do think this woman should be removed from the army for her involvement, if it happens to be an emotional event, I would not suggest that she be demonised.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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