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| Thread: newbie killer map? | |
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GrandElf
Hired Hero
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posted September 30, 2002 09:33 AM |
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newbie killer map?
i just downloaded new map Unknown Lands and i dont know if you can call this random.
you allways know where is your oponent and there will be allways lvl 3 creatures on the road, so with some luck and skill(maybe even map editing ) you can kill your oponent really quick
for me the main atraction in h3 randoms is that i never know where is my oponent, not just some random events
maybe im wrong, but thats just my opinion
p.s. how the hell you can check the saves if oponent refuse to give you password?
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Bad to the bone
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Psychobabble
Known Hero
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posted September 30, 2002 09:38 AM |
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Quote:
p.s. how the hell you can check the saves if oponent refuse to give you password?
You can't... that's kinda the point 
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H4TCG Review
H4 Map Reviews
Successful trades w/Teuta and doc
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GrandElf
Hired Hero
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posted September 30, 2002 09:56 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
p.s. how the hell you can check the saves if oponent refuse to give you password?
You can't... that's kinda the point
hehe, i meant after game is over, not betwen game
that way you can see if map was edited (i dont want to create panic, but you never know) or if you have time and save every turn and learn something from your oponent
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Bad to the bone
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 30, 2002 12:36 PM |
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Agree with Grandb@astard, maybe a ToH rule that says, at the end of game, pass word must be given so that game can be checked, otherwise editors will run riot.
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Myctteakyshd
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted September 30, 2002 03:32 PM |
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interesting point...
never thought of it lol altho i suppose refusal to give password is a sign of bein guilty..then again...people may "forget" them
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I will not lose.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 30, 2002 04:13 PM |
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Should be made a TOH rule that refusal to give password or forgetting password = loss of game regardless if you won or not. Also if you are guilty of losing/forgetting your password to many times on a regular basis then you get some kinda penalty etc.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 30, 2002 04:39 PM |
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Quote:
i just downloaded new map Unknown Lands and i dont know if you can call this random.
you allways know where is your oponent and there will be allways lvl 3 creatures on the road, so with some luck and skill(maybe even map editing) you can kill your oponent really quick
for me the main atraction in h3 randoms is that i never know where is my oponent, not just some random events
maybe im wrong, but thats just my opinion
I agree GrandElf. The most important aspect of a random map is not knowing where your opponent is. Also not knowing where anything is lol. Calling a Fixed map random just because it has some random fixed items is like saying a checker board game will play differently everytime just becasue the squares are a different color every time or the checkers are square instead of round lol. They still in same spot and you can play the exact same way the map just gonna look different hehe.
Any chance there is random map generator in the works???
Jinxer
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted September 30, 2002 06:05 PM |
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If you people only looked in Map Review and Submission....
Fixed random maps can be much better in some areas than the real random maps. First, fixed random maps can be balanced. Second, paths to the enemy won't ever be blocked like in real random maps. Third, some things can be random in fixed maps that could not have been random in real random maps and vice versa.
IMO, random map should be two-level XL and map maker should allow the players to decide whether that map is medium, large or extra-large and whether there are or aren't underground. You can't make this if the random map is only medium sized. And, yes, this is possible with Map Editor HoMM4 came with.
Something like 20-100 paths to enemy towns, towns which can be anywhere, could be made and more. One, some or all of those paths then could be opened by use of editor bombs.
Such a map is impossible to memorize, especially when the locations and availability of adventure map objects (towns, dwellings and mines for example) can be in various locations (but not just anywhere).
I don't know whether the Unknown Lands can be called (fixed) random map as I haven't yet looked at it. But if there are no random paths/teleporters/underground tunnels to enemy towns then it isn't random map, or not at least a type of map I had in mind. Nevertheless, it can be fun map. I'm going to check it tonight.
Check the rest from the thread I told you.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted September 30, 2002 06:40 PM |
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The key to all of this is if a map of this nature can be generated within 5 mins of game time and then load and play. It will never really be a true random map if it is posted for everyone to see and study ahead of time???? Correct?
I will admit some of these features will make playing fixed maps a little more bearable, but if the map is posted then it is never gonna be a true random.
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Oh_Smeg
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 30, 2002 08:16 PM |
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I've just finished a map called Chameleon that uses bombs to randomize most adventure objects day 1.
Portals to various areas have been randomized also...this can change the feel of a game tremendously, depending on which areas of the map are accessible via portal. Totally different strategies would be required depending on what portals are active.
I plan to modify all my maps to randomize most adventure objects, especially resource piles as the map is a lot more interesting...no more memorizing the paths that the scouts will follow. Haven't tried using bombs to randomize terrain yet but may give it a go.
It can be mindnumbingly booring work as the scripting is repetitive and tedious...I used approx 200 short scripts;
if random number between 1 and x is 1 then blow bomb1 etc.
Many players like fixed maps as they are more comfortable knowing the map. There is room for both types of map.
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Max_Apes
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 01, 2002 12:22 AM |
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Unknown Lands
Hi all!
(Sorry, my English is not good.)
There is a small readme for map Unknown Lands:
*******************************************************
Map Name: Unknown Lands
Version: 1.1
Author: Max_Apes
E-mail Address: max_apes@mail.ru
Map Type: Multiplayer ONLY, 2 Human Players
Map Size: Medium
Underground: Yes
Game version: HOMM4 v.2.0
Language: English
Special Win: Defeat all enemy towns and armies.
Special Loss: Lose all your towns and armies.
Special Other: This map is created by using "Pseudo-Random Technology".
Description:
1) Main feature: "Pseudo-Random Technology". There are more than 30 random variables, and more than 100 functions and bombs. Every group of objects depends on random variable. After starting the game, all groups of objects are deleted except for one group. There is a Random-effect, because there are a lot of random variables.
Example: with 20 random variables (1...3), the quantity of map variants is 8000.
2) Second feature: every player may have one of two starting places. And another player is unaware, where the first player is situated.
3) Map form. There are 4 starting places of a triangle form on this map. The triangles are not symmetrical on surface or underground. Each starting place has three passages to another three starting places. Towns are situated in the centers of triangles, therefore three different strategies:
a) to enemy starting town
b) to your second town
c) to enemy second town
4) Monsters in passages are also not stationary. Variants and probabilities:
a) MON3 (400 PEON) - 25%
b) MON3 (550 PEON) - 50%
c) MON4 (700 PEON) - 25%
5) Starting bonus to all players: 5000 gold. Some objects near the towns are stationary:
a) Sawmill, Ore Pit
b) Three wood, three ore
c) Gold mine, guard MON2
d) Gold mine, guard MON3
f) Five random resources, five gold
g) Trading post, guard MON2
h) Tavern, guard MON2
6) Dwellings near every town are stationary:
a) Four dwellings of the first level.
b) Two dwellings of the second level, gold, guard MON2 (100 PEON).
Random dwellings:
One dwelling of the third level.
7) Some starting bonuses are not stationary. Variants:
a) Learning stone, Dream Teacher, two treasures.
b) Two Learning stones, treasure.
c) Two Dream Teachers, two treasures.
Buildings in starting towns: tavern, city hall, both level one dwellings, caravan.
Additional buildings in neutral towns: blacksmith, citadel, mage guild levels 1-3, random level two and three dwelling.
9) Map design: 95% of terrain with no movement penalty.
10) Disabled:
Skill Seamanship, spell Summon Ship, artifacts: Boots of the Crocodile, Boots of the Explorer, Fireproof Boots, Logbook of the Master Sailor, Sandwalker Sandals, Seaman's Hat, Sextant, Snowshoes, Surefooted Boots.
Shrines of magic are not links anywhere.
**********************************************************
Good luck in playing .
I want to remind. Unknown Lands is the first in semi-random maps. It is pioneer. I hope, that the pseudo-random technology will be in HOMM4 world.
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Max_Apes
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 01, 2002 01:00 AM |
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quote:
>you allways know where is your oponent and there will be allways lvl 3 creatures on the road, so with some luck and skill(maybe even map editing) you can kill your oponent really quick
Answer:
It's not correct. Monsters in passages are random.
quote:
>for me the main atraction in h3 randoms is that i never know where is my oponent, not just some random events
maybe im wrong, but thats just my opinion
Answer:
Players may have one of two starting places. Player is unaware, where the another player is situated.
quote:
>Calling a Fixed map random just because it has some random fixed items is like saying a checker board game will play differently everytime just becasue the squares are a different color every time or the checkers are square instead of round lol.
Answer:
It's Pseudo random technology. Not random.
Quote:
>IMO, random map should be two-level XL...
Answer:
Did you thought about map dimension? Unknown Lands (Medium with Underground 150Kb).
But XL dimension??
HOMM4 multiplayer have some problems. I think, the big maps is bad.
Quote:
>I plan to modify all my maps to randomize most adventure objects, especially resource piles as the map is a lot more interesting...no more memorizing the paths that the scouts will follow. Haven't tried using bombs to randomize terrain yet but may give it a go.
Answer:
Good luck to you!
It's good that some other map makers want to create and create new semi-random maps.
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Tortoise
Known Hero
Master of Reptiles.
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posted October 08, 2002 12:22 AM |
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I think you guys just haven't quite figured out how to tackle the editor to its full potential. I mean its scripting is quite similar to Blizzards hit starcraft. and if anybody still plays that then they know that that editor knows no bounds! we've had Magic the gathering games exceptionally detailed RPGS and massive bloody battles of nonstop troups teleporting in... so i think we just gotta let those map makin thugz figure it out and then they can make some truly awesome maps...
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All living things have a history. The history of the Tortoise is long and rich.
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