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| Thread: Science Vs. Religion |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT» |
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IYY
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posted October 17, 2002 02:23 AM |
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Poll Question:
Science Vs. Religion
(mods, please delete this if you think it's against the rules)
It's a debate going on for ages, ever since modern science was discovered. Before that the two were complementary, and at certain times the same (I'm talking about the Greeks and the Alchemists). Then modern science was invented, and people like Descartes claimed that there was no god and everything could be explained by math. There were some who tried to combine the two, but those theories were never accepted. The Catholics, and most other religions were against science for a very long time.
Today there is some sort of understanding between the two, but is it really enough? My opinion is similar to Sir Isaac Newtons: there is a god, and he is a rational one that controls the world in a mathematical way. But that leaves so many questions unanswered, and they can only be explained by pure religion.
I think that maybe a day will come when science and religion will once again work together to explain the universe, and there will be one common belief based on solid facts and it might well be somewhat similar to those religious ideas of different religions of the world.
What do you think?
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Sir_Stiven
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posted October 17, 2002 02:24 AM |
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think this debate already has been brought up once?
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IYY
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Supreme Hero
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posted October 17, 2002 02:32 AM |
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I think it was brought up in the Attack Iraq thread, but that's no reason for it not to have a thread of it's own 
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privatehudson
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posted October 17, 2002 03:01 AM |
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Science Vs Religion
Hmmmmmmm normally I come down on the side of science as Religion has a terrible habit of explaining the unexplained as the workings of god and therefore not to be investigated. That's not to say that I don't think there are some things science cannot or should not explain, but then again I think it should try it's utmost to.
I'm not sure science will ever fully explain or prove god (if he exists that is) as faith is well like it says, you either believe he exists or you don't, it cannot to me be founded on facts or proof. You have either experienced god or you haven't.
On science, it all too often is criticised for being wrong. I've lost count of the number of christian books that defend the notion of a 6000 year old earth simply by saying that science cannot say exactly how old it is either. Science is not always precise and is very fluid. What we think we know now can all to often change in the future. But science has at least exploded many myths such as the age of the world. It's useful, after all someone who relies solely on religion and not science could watch their child die because they refuse a transplant or blood transfusion or operation becuase it is unholy (sounds mad, but it has happened in extreme cases)
So I geuss I would say science is VERY important and should be persued to the utmost, not stopping just because it may comprimise religious rhetoric in some way, but at some point A holy being of some sort takes over and you will never quite understand or prove that.
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Sir_Stiven
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posted October 17, 2002 03:05 AM |
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nope, i think cat has made a thread about this too...not 100% sure though so you wont get a n00b comment yet...
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IYY
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posted October 17, 2002 03:08 AM |
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Edited By: IYY on 16 Oct 2002
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Maybe you will never be able to prove something like that, but on the other hand modern quantum mechanics has some very weird unknown stuff about it: like this thing about how how nothing is there unless it's observed. And the fact that if you manage to almost reach the speed of light time will pass faster for you. And what about the fact that if you somehow manage to go faster than the speed of light, you turn into energy? Maybe the answer lies somewhere in those or other scientific mysteries...
Oh, and Stiven, I am indeed quite a n00b (I'll take that it means Newbie around here?), and only read Cat's most recent threads so I might have missed it.
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privatehudson
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posted October 17, 2002 03:12 AM |
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Stiven - Let's just for arguments sake and since Cat isn't around much use this thread for now huh?
IYY - Yes that's true, but the difference is that science will continue to work to try and figure these things out and sometime in our distant future (if we don't kill ourselves 1st) people will look back and those mysteries will seem ridiculous to them. Religion on the other hand has by and large just but mysteries down to god or the devil and not always tried to explain them.
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Aculias
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posted October 17, 2002 03:17 AM |
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It's interesting Religion can be of personal beliefs & from golden ages to modern history there has been countless religions from every country.
Can also be contradictions for personal beliefs but how do we know for sure.
Science is fact & Religion is a beliefit has nothing in common because Science is the truth & Religion is a belief that can be contradictions yes no?
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IYY
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Supreme Hero
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posted October 17, 2002 03:22 AM |
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I agree that today science and religion have nothing in common, but in the past they did, and maybe the future has some surprises for us.
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Wub
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posted October 17, 2002 03:34 AM |
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Edited By: Wub on 16 Oct 2002
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Actually I think that science and religion are not necessarily opposed to each other. Irrational and unlogical thinking is rather the enemy of science than religion is. Of course, the Inquisition has threatened or killed many persons that we today would see as scientists. However, that was more due to the fact that these scientists made statements that were perceived as a threat for the Church. Still such killing of people is despicable of course.
Isaac Newton is already mentioned; he was a scientist who actually had an immovable belief in God and therefore was never a threat to religion. So science and religion can get along. In fact, many modern scientists have an other belief than atheïsm.
I disagree with the statement that attempts to combine both science and religion in the past, have failed. Actually, Descartes deeply believed in God. In fact, the existence of a God was as natural for him as the statement: 'I think, therefore I am'. Other great philosophers such as Spinoza, Kant, Berkeley, Hume, Socrates, Plato and Aristoteles also didn't exclude science, nor religion. And personally I think that religion can never be falsified by science.
Maybe it is good to show where I am myself on this issue. I am an upcoming scientist and agnosticus. Or maybe my belief is better described as 'unitarian universalism': I tested it in the what religion you really are? thread by Nebuka.
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Sir_Stiven
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posted October 17, 2002 04:04 AM |
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point was PH that prolly lots of what you have said/will say have already been discussed and if you read old thread you might get new ideas and stuff to talk about. But i dunno who made it...damn memory lol 
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bort
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posted October 17, 2002 04:52 AM |
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this topic
and this topic
both talked about this. No reason not to talk about it again, but assume I reposted all my posts in these two threads here.
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privatehudson
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posted October 17, 2002 04:56 AM |
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That's why I've never heard of them then, I only posted once in one which ended in august and the other ended in june, before I arrived so I'm geussing they will be way back in terms of pages.
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bort
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posted October 17, 2002 05:04 AM |
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Quote:
like this thing about how how nothing is there unless it's observed.
That's not what it says. You're thinking of Zen. What you're probably referring to is that, according to quantum, 1. the state of a system is not determined until it is observed and until then it exists as a mixture of its possible states and 2. the act of observing the system changes it (this half isn't unique to quantum, but it does have certain twists)
Quote:
And the fact that if you manage to almost reach the speed of light time will pass faster for you.
That's relativity, not quantum.
Quote:
And what about the fact that if you somehow manage to go faster than the speed of light, you turn into energy?
You're energy to begin with, even when you're sitting still. (That's what E=mc^2 means) Once again, relativity, not quantum. Apparently, if you go faster than light, you'll go back in time, but you can't reach or go faster than the speed of light anyway, so it's kind of a moot point.
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2XtremeToTake
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posted October 17, 2002 06:56 AM |
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I voted science because religion has nothing to back it up execpt ancient writings and word of mouth....Science there is an immense amount of proof to back it up.
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Mad_Unicorn
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I am a mean person shame on me
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posted October 17, 2002 10:54 AM |
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Whats funny about the two is they both explain unexplainable things
R:The Universe was created by GOD
S:The Universe was created by a BANG(basically random atoms smashing into one another)
R:God created the universe from void
S:The Universe was void until the BANG
R:God created the world in seven days(didn't say how long a S:god day was did he since there was no "official" time)
The world evolved after millions of years.
R:Everybody was created in Gods own image
S:Children take on the visage of thier parents. (In scientific terms try to explain gods image... hes a hermaphrodite)
Here is a FACT Science IS Religion just at different poles.
I like linking the two for my personal belief. (GOD is not included as i dont believe in him) however i do believe there are force(S!!) in this world that nobody can fathom not even GOD.
Religion is for the people who dont wanna think about it Science is for those who like to use their minds. 
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I guess with my way thinking I would be going to hell. Good thing I dont believe in it.
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Lews_Therin
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posted October 17, 2002 03:53 PM |
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Uhm, no, there is a big difference between science and religion .
Scientists set up theories based on observations, and continually falsify them. They donīt have a meeting every sunday where they sing:"Yes, we believe that a big bang initially made us." Itīs just the most plausible theory at the moment.
Likewise, atheism isnīt a belief - that would be like calling not-playing-tennis a hobby.
Person X says that pink-striped elephants exist. I say they donīt, because Iīve never seen one, and neither is there any kind of evidence for the existence of pink-striped elephants. If X would show me one, and prove that its color has not been made with a paint-brush, then I would acknowledge that pink-striped elephants exist.
Besides, what is always being mixed and misused is the huge difference between theism and the book religions. Yes, the possibility of the existence of one or more beings that could be considered "godly" cannot be excluded - regarding that, I, like most people who call themselves atheists, have an agnostic view.
But, in my very humble opinion, an anthropocentric god from books like the bible (or the koran) is about as likely as ... pink-striped elephants.
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bjorn190
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posted October 17, 2002 05:43 PM |
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Religion wins, because science is just a modern religion based on axioms that canīt be proves and thus science fails as what it tries to be. Religion doesnt claim to be anything but religion.
Itīs all just what you believe it to be.
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bort
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posted October 17, 2002 05:57 PM |
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Hmmm. Let me try to explain here, Bjorn. Science creates models that give definite predictions which can be tested. If the prediction is wrong, the model is wrong and a new model is developed based on the evidence available.
The difference between science and religion is that science provides a method of testing the "facts" that it puts forth (ie - don't believe in gravity? Well, when you drop something [assuming you're on the earth's surface] and it doesn't fall, we'll talk.) and religion claims things as "fact" without providing any way to test those facts. (People like to go "oh yeah, well prove God doesn't exist!" Of course that's impossible. Just as impossible as proving elves don't exist, but you don't see many people worshiping elves even though it's impossible to prove they don't exist.)
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Mad_Unicorn
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posted October 17, 2002 07:15 PM |
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explain this to me then
Why does Science like all other religions have a view and an understanding how the the world was brought into being
why it is now goin to pot and then eventually will return to oblivion?
Everybody should realize that Every religion has its own beliefs about begginning of the world and the end of it. Also they include how u should go about your daily business in whatever fashion need be according to that set of beliefs.
Science does the same thing (virtually exactly the same thing) Science tells us this is how the world was created (i dont think they can prove how man evlolved yet tho) Science tells us a way we should live and the consequences of going against their objectives. Science tells us how the world will end.(Something like the sun finally going nova or something.)
If you cant see the similarities I would say your as blind as the most blind religios zealots.(Dargon,Bush).
Science is yet another reason why the world is so confused
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I guess with my way thinking I would be going to hell. Good thing I dont believe in it.
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