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| Thread: Historical Debates! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Wolfman
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posted November 02, 2002 09:58 PM |
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Historical Debates!
First the (American) Civil War.
Only because it is popping up in "Attack Iraq!"
see pg.19 in "Attack Iraq" for first arguements
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Celfious
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posted November 02, 2002 10:03 PM |
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“A house divided against itself cannot stand….Our cause must be intrusted to, and conducted by its own undoubted friends – whose hands are free, whose hearts are in the work – who do care for the result.”
Abraham Lincoln
I'm glad america's america, and not still south/north in these time's
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Wolfman
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posted November 02, 2002 10:09 PM |
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privatehudson
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posted November 02, 2002 10:10 PM |
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I repeat what I said there and that's all unless anyone wants to bring something else up?
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Wolfman
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posted November 02, 2002 10:18 PM |
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I dunno. What is another contrivercial subject?
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Celfious
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posted November 02, 2002 10:21 PM |
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Was the cival war the 2nd, and last war american political *human kings* had on eatchother? (Revolutionary war being the first)
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Juulcesaar
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posted November 02, 2002 10:25 PM |
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What do you think of some 'if' scenario's?
What if ... (hitler wasn't driven back, the Americans didn't came in the second WW, Spain left the Indians alone,...)
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Wolfman
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posted November 02, 2002 10:35 PM |
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privatehudson
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posted November 02, 2002 10:55 PM |
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*in order*
Hitler: Had he not been pushed back as in a negotiated peace? Simply millions more dead from gassing and a totalitarian controlled europe
America: Russia may or may not have halted hitler, that is debateable. Britain would have sued for peace. Germany would have held out longer than she did
Spain: Spain would have been less powerful, Britain, Holland and france would have dominated the new world
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Juulcesaar
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posted November 02, 2002 11:10 PM |
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more:
(regarding USSR)
-Kennedy and Chroetsjov pressed the 'launch' button
-Chernenko lived longer (and Gorbatsjov didn't rise to power)
-Lenin was pushed back in 1918 and the Tsar was still in power
-The Sovjet union didn't invent nukes (but the USA had some)
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privatehudson
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posted November 02, 2002 11:32 PM |
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1: We all die
2: Unrest in europe would have eventually brought the fall of communism in those countries at some time
3: Russia would have fallen in WWII
4: Unlikely given the level of spies, if not though a similar situation to prior to WWII, but with 1 main player calling all the shots and effectively ruling the world.............
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Wolfman
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posted November 02, 2002 11:37 PM |
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sounds about right
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Juulcesaar
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posted November 02, 2002 11:37 PM |
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And more...
(concerning Napoleon & the french revolution)
-Wellington was defeated in 1815
-Napoleon succeeded in capturing Russia
-Robespierre stayed in power
-the French revolution didn't take place
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Juulcesaar
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posted November 02, 2002 11:43 PM |
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regarding the first set
hitler wasn't driven back
-toatalitarian regime on european continent, a stable front with Russia, 3 main powers, and a bloody uprising in the years 1970
the Americans didn't came in the second WW
-totalitarian regime until about 1970, England isolated and besieged, bloody front line in Russia and growing economical problems in the USA
Spain left the Indians alone
-less power and wealth (reulting in a capture during the Napoleon Wars, or possibly an earlier annexation from France), and a very dangerous to travel Mexican mainland.
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privatehudson
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posted November 02, 2002 11:53 PM |
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1: The austrians, russians and surviving prussians would have caned napoleon anyway
2: Not strictly possible and certainly not what he wanted as he was after simply forcing them out of the war and into a common trade agreement
3: Dunno but that was unlikely given his lack of popularity
4: Europe would use completely different systems of government and measures. France would be less powefull.
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Juulcesaar
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posted November 03, 2002 12:09 AM |
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You know your history quite well 
machine gun in action giving out more
(regarding the first triumvirate)
-Caesar wasn't murdered
-Pompeius rose to power instead of Caesar
-Bellum gallico would have ended in a defeat for Julius
-Crassus survived the Parths
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privatehudson
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posted November 03, 2002 12:19 AM |
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Hmmmmmmm Rome would have expanded more under his reign due to his brilliant strategies.
Dunno as I only know about caesar, but we'd loose a lot of sayings 
Dunno
Dunno
Ancient history really isn't something I follow sorry.
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Khaelo
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posted November 03, 2002 02:44 AM |
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Edited By: Khaelo on 2 Nov 2002
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rampant speculation
If:
Quote:
-Caesar wasn't murdered
In the long run, basically the same thing that happened anyway -- Rome would move from republic to imperial rule. Caesar was murdered because he wasn't subtle enough about this change. Augustus was smarter about it and pulled it off. Since Augustus was Caesar's adopted heir, he probably would have ended up with the throne eventually, anyway. On the other hand, a bunch of civil wars would have been avoided. We would be deprived of some nice plays from Shakespeare, the plots of which he ripped off from Plutarch's biographies.
Quote:
-Pompeius rose to power instead of Caesar
Hmm, I'm not sure. If I recall correctly, Pompeius was more gung-ho about preserving the republic than Caesar, so it may have lasted longer. There were still major systematic problems plaguing the republic, though, so I'm not sure how much difference it would have made.
Quote:
-Bellum gallico would have ended in a defeat for Julius
Roman expansion into Gaul would have slowed, if not ceased completely. Emperors went back and forth on whether to continue to try to expand and trying to defend land already taken -- more emperors would have taken the defensive route, I suspect, if the Celts defeated Caesar. Gaul wouldn't have served as a buffer zone between the hostile tribes and Italy and would probably have posed a danger. Caesar himself wouldn't have become dictator for life, and the shift to imperialism would have been much different, probably much slower, and possibly nonexistant. If Rome never got into Gaul at all, the Christian missionaries would have had a much harder time of it in Europe without the Roman infastructure. Going into really far out speculation (medieval history is not my strong suit), the great monastaries of Europe which preserved literacy, as well as many of the great works of Classical Rome and Greece, wouldn't have been founded. Europeans would have had to rely even more on Arab scholars for intellectual culture (already a whole lot of our math and astronomy is based on their work). The Holy Roman Empire of Charlemange wouldn't have existed, which would have affected political structures in ways I can't even imagine right now.
Quote:
-Crassus survived the Parths
Crassus was the guy with the money, right? I'm blanking out on this...someone else can deal with him.
EDIT: Fixed up some spacing issues. Wow, this post turned out longer than I planned. Sorry about that. You hit my major with this one.
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Juulcesaar
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posted November 03, 2002 11:30 AM |
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Long live the speculations...
(regarding the end of the Roman Era)
-The Huns didn't ride into Europe
-Roman leadership was in Roman hands, without a single barbarian general
-Attilla took a road on the other side of the black sea
-all barbarian tribes united under roman rule and defended their homes against the huns
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privatehudson
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posted November 03, 2002 01:20 PM |
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I'll leave that to Khaelo he knows more about that period than I do.
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