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| Thread: Artifacts/ Relics - their impact on heroes and how to implement them in H5 - idea | |
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted November 15, 2002 09:42 PM |
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Artifacts/ Relics - their impact on heroes and how to implement them in H5 - idea
Arifacts:
As I said before, the main problem in Heroes 3 that all heroes ended up looking the same way is caused by the unbalanced artifacts.
A +6 power or +3 to power and +3 to knoweledge artifact can easily turn Barbarian into Magician. How can be this prevented. First the artifacts should be really balanced, +5 should be their maximum and I’ll explain why later.
The Artifacts should have requirements in order to be equiped. So let’s say there is a Sword that grants the wielder +3 attack, if hero wants to equip it he must have his combat skill to Expert (3rd) level, if there is an axe that grants +5 attack, than the combat skill of the hero must be GM in order to meet requirement to equipe this artifact. If say artifact is Cape of Knoweledge +4, the hero must have any of the secondary magic skill developed up to level 4.
There will be special artifacts that are dependant upon certain secondary skills or sub skills also. Say, the Staff of Chaos will be available only to heroes that has taken Chaos Magic as one their secondary skills, Staff of Ressurection only to the Life Magic Heroes with Ressurection Sube Skill. Or if hero want to equip the Circlet of Nobility that grants +1 6th level creature per week, hero must have his Nobility skill up to GM, Ancient Bow of the Elves will require certain level of the Archery Sub Skill, and Flag of Surrendering will require certain level of the Diplomacy Sub Skill, and so on, and so on.
So this will mean that trough artifacts Might heroes will mainly strenghten their Attack and Defense skills, while Magic heroes will strenghten their Magic skills, and Mix Heroes will fit somewhere in between.
Also heroes that specialize in one of the secondary skills and their sub skills will have access to artifacts that are dependant upon certain skills within their class that will strenghten them more in those powers and make them far different from calss to class.
I think that this way the heroes will be forced to look more distinctive one from another, and the game will be more balanced, which can be only good thing.
Relics:
Since in H4 were introduced multiple obelisks, I think that all the Relics should be available only trough digging. Just like in H1&2. If your remember, the ultimate artifact in H1&2 were the Relics (or something very similar to them) and were available only trough digging.
This is because, since they're really powerful, there should be some questing needed in order to find them.
It would be nice if each Relict have it's own type of obelisks so that you know what you're looking for.
The Relics, should grant the player not only abilities, but also special skills or spells that aren't available trough any other way. But this spells should be balanced carefully so that Relics of this type don't get powerfull as AB and this way disbalance the game, and especially the MP game.
Comments? Opinions?
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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HeyYou
Known Hero
and beloved food provider.
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posted November 15, 2002 10:16 PM |
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Excellent
I like the idea of artifacts being usable only by heroes with particular skills.
I also think that there should only ever be one of each type of artifact on a given map, i.e. only one Centaur's Axe (or whatever they are in 4). Having too many artifacts reduces their value.
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Slava14
Promising
Famous Hero
I am 16 now....
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posted November 16, 2002 10:53 AM |
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The idea of having artifacts that depend on skill is great, and realistic ( ) too...
But I disagree with the relics idea. It's the mapmaker's choice, whether or not they're available through quests. Currently (in HoMM 4, of course) the mapmaker, if he wishes to do so, can easily implement your idea, but it'll be his choice. Forcing this kind of thing will be, IMO, an unwanted step back.
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I'm always happy to help.. unless I'm helping myself.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 17, 2002 05:44 PM |
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Quote:
As I said before, the main problem in Heroes 3 that all heroes ended up looking the same way is caused by the unbalanced artifacts.
Not really. I would be inclined to blame unbalanced secondary skills. You don't start out knowing you will get a certain artifact, and especially not a certain relic. You do know which skills are good and since quite a few skills are not worth it in H3, you tend to stick with the rest.
The second thing that makes it this way is the foucs to develope a hero stronger than any other hero.
If skills were better balanced so some skills are much better for mages than for warriors, then you would get more different characters.
I'm not advocating a return of the H3 type of Attack and Defence skills, Instead i want to keep the Offence and Defence skills in H4.
I'm also against artifacts whose only function requires a skill to use, and especially if you require a high level of that skill.
A hero who doesn't have the skill will have to consider the artifact junk. In multiplayer game with fairly low level characters the chance of a character reaching Master or Grand master of a skill is slim.
Which means that all those artifacts are useless in those games. And if you get one from say an utopia wouldn't you be extremely disappointed if none of your heroes are anywhere near to fulfill the prerequisites?
This is akin to the requirement when you encounted a loose arifact and you got a message saying something like you need Wisdom, Diplomacy or Leadership to get the artifact. In another word: frustrating.
I want it this way:
All artifacts should have an ability which is useful to all Heroes, so everyone can get some use out of it. Nobody wants to walk around with a lot of junk.
Artifacts may then have a percentage increase to a skill in addition to the basic bonus of the item. This will result in a bigger bonus the higher the hero's seconadary skill is.
You may also make some artifacts more or less effective depending on the alignement (good, evil, order, chaos) or class of the hero. Say a Paladin with a Crusader's Mace could be far more effective than every other classes. Evil aligned heroes might also be unable to use certain good-aligned weapons.
To make hero classes more distinct you make artifacts which works better the more skills of a certain type a hero has.
In all installments of Heroes, Heroes will develope both magic and might skill. So talking of might hereoes or magic heroes is a bit wrong. Even the single Hero is usually both of might and magic.
I think that this way the heroes will be forced to look more distinctive one from another, and the game will be more balanced, which can be only good thing.
I'll disagree on the balance. You're likely to get an unbalanced result out of the things you suggest, and it will take a lot of effort to play-test the combinations. Sure it could be balanced, but I'd say that both the H3 and h4 system is more likely to become balanced than the one you suggested.
In H4 relics is usually no problem at least not in multiplayer. You can likely reach and squash your opponent long before you can squash the guards for a relic artifact (unless map-maker has made a big mistake).
Anyway, keep relics on the map but require the map maker to place them explicitly. (Ie. you don't get relics from a ship-wrecked or similar random locations.)
I don't think relics should give unique abilites to heroes. It's better to require heroes to have two specific skills for this (the way demon summoning works in H4). In other words, every hero can find a relic but not every hero should be able to cast every spell because they find the relic.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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