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| Thread: Necropolis Equalizers |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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EvilLoynis
Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
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posted December 07, 2002 06:35 AM |
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Necropolis Equalizers
I don't know about the rest of you but I don't like it that every game now has the no Necro town and no GM Necromancy rule. I mean I know the Necro town can be really cheap, but so can any town if you no how to play with it really well.
I was just wondering what would be some good ways to help equalize the Necro town that we can implement to get it back to being an acceptable town to use.
One of mine went like, if you were the Necro town to start then you can't have a hero with GM Necromancy. Another was if you weren't the Necro town at the start then you were allowed to get a hero with GM Necromancy. The reasoning with either of these rules that if you started with Necropolis then you weren't going to be able to make the Vampires the main part of your army, and have an overwhelming number of them. And if you were either the Academy or the Asylum then you were not really going to be able to have Vampires without haveing major Morale penalties.
Now lets here those ideas.
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"I am both selfish and instictive. I value nature and the world around me as means to an end as well as an end in itself; at best I ... too long to display...
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 07, 2002 04:39 PM |
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I would say you can still play with Necro town... But NO vampires. Which shouldnt be a big deal. There is Venom Spawns. And by stating the NO vampire rule that eliminates GM necromancy. So make it simple. Just 1 rule. No vampires and you can still play Necro town.
Jinxer
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Camelnor
Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
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posted December 07, 2002 05:11 PM |
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Ok guys, here is my idea. You know how those WoG guys edited H3... so why not have a WOG guy or someone similar make their own homemade patch for h4, which reduces vamps HP and mel att/def (or some other way of making them not as good)...??? And maybe they could change a couple other things we might want.. obviously not major things like data transfer, but small things.
Then of course, to play a TOH game it will be required that you have that patch. If no one can make this patch, which i bet someone can, we can always b i t c h to 3do and maybe theyll give us a patch... afterall, how long could it take them to simply edit the vamp's stats?
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EvilLoynis
Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
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posted December 07, 2002 06:17 PM |
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Quote:
I would say you can still play with Necro town... But NO vampires. Which shouldnt be a big deal. There is Venom Spawns. And by stating the NO vampire rule that eliminates GM necromancy. So make it simple. Just 1 rule. No vampires and you can still play Necro town.
Jinxer
Yeah I tryed playing it that way before on the map Borings Mountain. The thing is it takes a long time to build up to get out of there. Also if you think about it, same map, it is really hard to get up to GM Necromancy, not to mention that by the time you get it alot of the creatures are already dead so theres no one around too raise them from.
And I have to say that Venom Spawn suck and they slow down your army way too much. If your going to do that then you have to up there speed so that it is fair when forcing your opponent too choose them.
Also If you say no GM Necromancy then the vamps should be allowed to be built in the town. I mean you will never have enough of them too them a really big problem. I think they only grow at about 3 or 4 a week. Unless you spend some time powering up a Lord or Nobility hero, which is a waste of time kind of, then they will be no bigger threat than those damn Cyclopses with there area attack.
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"I am both selfish and instictive. I value nature and the world around me as means to an end as well as an end in itself; at best I ... too long to display...
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sos
Known Hero
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posted December 07, 2002 09:26 PM |
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I say play the game as it is. I never impose any rule when I play. If someone gets necro so be it. Try to do the best you can and enjoy the game - win or lose.
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dEth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted December 08, 2002 05:16 PM |
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holiday fears, sayeth the suessayer =)
Just as long feared, your ruling-maker is here! I'll snow and I'll gripe, I'll limit your might, I'll whine and complain, "it's not fair" I refrain.
Rather then learn, rather then yearn, I'll huff and I'll puff, I'll cuss and I'll cry "let's make us a rule, so that I don't die [*underbreat *chin down].
The strife I'll create, keeps us up late, boasting and posting, hoasting and coasting, "isn't this fun?, now I'm sure I can win."
Capitol cheers, capitol jeers, billowing and blinding, name calling and winding, joking with smoking, the haze gets so thick that the mirror never clears.
In a time for fun, in a time for glee, comraderie and friendship, it is you I'll destroy. Better yet I'll deploy, much ill sentiment to annoy.
All of this huslte, all of this bustle, all of the feelings left in a tustle. To play and have fun, the name of the game, when I don't win you know it's a sin.
The humbling I earned, for I was not learned. Twisting a twirling, bristling and burning, this pain ..must prevent .... must stop these events!
I'll spit and I'll spat, I'll tit for your tat. I'll call you cheap, while my army grows fat. You beat me once, I felt like a dunce. No more shall that happen, I've got a rules I'm a prattlin'!!!
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted December 08, 2002 06:19 PM |
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*clapclapclap*
really cute deth
still,no fun for me wacking or getting wacked by GM necromancy,
been there at both occasions,and i had no fun at all
was a waste of time
soo..
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted December 08, 2002 06:30 PM |
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Mud (hey, at least it wasn't a popup!) has Necromancy banned from the available skills, although it is still possible to gain it through altars it is also much harder. This is done because of the nature of the map.
Nice poem dEth8.
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dEth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted December 09, 2002 10:29 PM |
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Quote:
really cute deth
still,no fun for me wacking or getting wacked by GM necromancy,
been there at both occasions,and i had no fun at all
was a waste of time
soo..
Yes, a good point would be to note that you had the option to fool around with GM at your desire. Once the feeling of wacking or getting wacked and the desire for maybe a more challenging situation or the all loved "more balanced" play comes in then you are still free to play as you like.
The notion of banning, ie: rules is nothing but limitting others freedom to explore and decide what they like for themselves as well. Hence there are no rules in this game as far as ToH goes for this season unless specifically stated on the Honor Council or other ToH pages.
It will be nice to see those that come up with good strategies against the most difficult of situations as well for those are true masters of the game. As of yet, I would say it is almost impossible to have one at this time since the game and its play is evolutionary as seasons pass.
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Camelnor
Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
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posted December 10, 2002 12:01 AM |
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thunder -
you are also known as "Risto"?
Because I saw that CH posted Mud under the author name of "Risto" so i was wondering.
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Psychobabble
Known Hero
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posted December 10, 2002 01:01 AM |
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Quote:
thunder -
you are also known as "Risto"?
Because I saw that CH posted Mud under the author name of "Risto" so i was wondering.
That was a mistake I made because that was the name he included in the readme. He would prefer to be known as Thunder and I have changed the map database to reflect this.
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mklthrkngl
Known Hero
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posted December 10, 2002 09:24 AM |
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is it really so bad?
out side of a couple a maps like superheroes, or maps of the larger persuasion which are almost never used for toh game play, how often is a heroe going to be able to reach GM necro and use it to build a big vamp army anyways? The last time I checked most maps have no wher near enough xperience to build a gm necro and then have enough critters left to build an effective force. Now to be honest I usually ask if I can have a restart if I get necro because i find it the most boring of towns to play. It's not quite as bad as homm3's necro but it's close. I don't really care if my OP wants to play it though.
Don't get me wrong, on a larger map with multitudes of critters necro definitly seems almost impossible to beat. But then again, not to often will anybody bother to invest the time to play a toh game on anything other than a medium map.
So what's the big deal really? If anything, in most med. maps i think necro's at a disadvantage because it really is geared towardfs building yer vamp army and most times any OP worth his salt won't let ya get that far anyways 
It's like " Yeah!! I finally got my GM necro!! now i'm gonna build my masive unstoppable vamp army and decimate my OP. Hey? What's this?! 2 Barbie heroes and some T-Birds? RUN AWAY!!! RUN AWAY!!! DOH! gotta drop this damn slow necro force and leave it to get wacked by the barbies just so I can get to my town and shack up......... and etc."
I not against makin rules, sometimes they add to the game in certain ways. I'd never ask anybody to play by any though. I would never play necro by choice but I would play it if I got stuck with it.
In the end, all i gotta say is, " You got vamps? Well I got Hydra's with vampiric touch spell BBLLRR BBLLRR
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OK!! So i cann't spell well! So shoot me!!
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WhenPimpsAtt...
Tavern Dweller
Drinker of Immortality potions
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posted December 10, 2002 01:26 PM |
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The thing that pisses me off the most about death is that they dont have to build any extra buildings to get level 3 and 4 creatures structures. Most other towns ( the haven, the stronghold, the whatever ) have to build other usually pointless buildings to be able to build level 2/3/4 creatures. But day 3 with death you can get vampires, the most powerfull level 3 unit in the game! Thats a big advantage.
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted December 10, 2002 07:40 PM |
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Quote:
..they dont have to build any extra buildings
what kind of a cheat then necro would be..! if they had to build extras!?noo,not necropolis
..giving it a techincal look,each game has a 'better-easier to win with' tribe-race..that is done on purpose,,they know,beleive me,they know what they're doing
..but,we dont have to take for granted anything offered..
soo..i suggest to play "NO GM Necromancy" rule(+2 vamps per fight is.. uncommentated) ,uppon agreement only ofcourse,to reassure you a more even and tougher fight...
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Tortoise
Known Hero
Master of Reptiles.
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posted December 10, 2002 07:54 PM |
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well this just sux, i've always been a huge fan of necros in hmm3 and the first thing i did when i played 4 is pick necro!!! I thought vamps were snowin kick ass, i didn't even know about the gm necromancy thing until i had a huge # of vamps for some reason, but i still don't think its that cheap.... lets say in a random battle fighting 3 stacks of 10 crusaders? i don't care how many vamps i got those guys are snowin tanks Vs Vamps.... besides, you take out vampires and the bulk of necros army just went to snow, you can't honestly tell me venom spawns can take their place? and the lv 1's and 2's are just as sad.. and without vampires as a quick expansion how da faq we supposed to get the mins for build lv 4 generator? I think vamps are needed. BOOO TOO YOU ALL THINKIN VAMPS = CHEAP!
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EvilLoynis
Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
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posted December 10, 2002 11:41 PM |
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Quote:
well this just sux, i've always been a huge fan of necros in hmm3 and the first thing i did when i played 4 is pick necro!!! I thought vamps were snowin kick ass, i didn't even know about the gm necromancy thing until i had a huge # of vamps for some reason, but i still don't think its that cheap.... lets say in a random battle fighting 3 stacks of 10 crusaders? i don't care how many vamps i got those guys are snowin tanks Vs Vamps.... besides, you take out vampires and the bulk of necros army just went to snow, you can't honestly tell me venom spawns can take their place? and the lv 1's and 2's are just as sad.. and without vampires as a quick expansion how da faq we supposed to get the mins for build lv 4 generator? I think vamps are needed. BOOO TOO YOU ALL THINKIN VAMPS = CHEAP!
Tell me have you ever faced an opponent is Heroes 4 when they were Necro and you weren't?
And yes I was saying before that it was bad that they let you get them on day 3 almost always, I mean your Magic Guild is usually already built,so you only have to buy the Cerebei hut or the Borrow Mounds.
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"I am both selfish and instictive. I value nature and the world around me as means to an end as well as an end in itself; at best I ... too long to display...
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Camelnor
Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
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posted December 11, 2002 12:12 AM |
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you get one day later if you go barrow mounds.
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CraigHack
Known Hero
Have fantasies, will travel...
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posted December 11, 2002 12:55 AM |
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I personally dont like rules in my games but I dont mind if two people agree to a rule before play.
And yes.... GM Necromancers are a little too tough.
But taking GM Necro's out of the game entirely is no good.
Taking Vampires out of the game is no good either.
The problem is making 2 or even 3 at GM Necro skill level!
But the balance is not far off the mark. As I try to think of the simplest solution to the problem and just how (big) the problem is, I've come up with this...
If NWC would reduce that number to 1 maximum new Vampire raised, it would in my opinion even out the game. Vampires are not a problem, it's the numbers that are a problem.
Lets face it.... if we eliminate GM Necro's we gotta eliminate those damned Barbs too!
Wait....!!!!
Then Chaos would be too tough and we would have to eliminate them. And then Archers and Rogues and..... well it just gets out of hand.
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The Gods have brought us together... I can't imagine why.
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted December 11, 2002 01:20 AM |
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I always thought
the easiest way to 'modify' vampires would be to reduce their properties in HP, and attack defence.
Their att/def of 30 is way too high, almost like level 4, and their hp could be safely reduced to 60.
So if vamps were kept all the same but made 60hp and attdef of 20, they would be more reasonable.
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Camelnor
Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
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posted December 11, 2002 01:51 AM |
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heh, yep. I think i said something along the same lines up there ^ ^ ^. Anyone else agree?
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My Site
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