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| Thread: Should they keep heroes in battles in Homm5 or not ? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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AzureDragonTM
Known Hero
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posted March 15, 2003 07:22 PM |
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Should they keep heroes in battles in Homm5 or not ?
What do u think guys ? 3do must leave heroes on battle ground in Homm5 like is in Homm4 or just make them lazy and stupid like in Homm3 ?
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Evil Ghost Pirate LeChuck 
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japjer
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 15, 2003 08:14 PM |
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leave them there. If they HAVE to change it, change it back to 1-hero armies. Lords/thiefs can still travel with the heroes, but only 1 will show up on the battlefield...or something.
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2003 02:55 AM |
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i dunno why you bother, no one is gonna care about what we want ...
personally i want a patch now more than heroes 5 ... cause i love this game
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted March 16, 2003 06:29 AM |
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I like the idea of Heroes in the army. However!! I think the heroes should only SUPPORT your main army, not be there AS your main army.
For example. Have your hero with the defense of a GM Combat hero. But have him offer very little direct damage etc. So basically an army with only heroes couldnt do squat! They would need there army.
It really sucks that the only stratgy anymore is 4-5 Super heroes and only Level 3's and Level 4's
But 3do is to blame for that by only offering 4 creatures per town. I think there should be atleast 10 units offered and you can create which combination of 7 units. Be it 2 Heroes and 5 creatures or 3 heroes and 4 creatures or 1 Heroes and 6 creatures. Etc.
Bottom line is LEAVE heroes in but make them ALOT less strong offensively
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Targan
Known Hero
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posted March 16, 2003 07:26 AM |
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Jinxer you hit the bulls eye there i agree 100%
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted March 16, 2003 07:39 AM |
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should be cool have heroes 3 type combat but also add on some more kicks to boost up some more ambushes or traps like you can attack one hero from the front & another hero attacks the same hero on the right flank.
mayhaps heroes can be used only as mages like in heroes 3 but vulnerable.
If they die then you have no more use of magic.
Or mayhaps you can find dif types of arties for specific or any creatures to equip them to m ake them stronger.
Like minor arties for lv 1-2 creatures & higher ranking arties for a more higher lv creature.
Like if you find an ogrea club, you can have a choice to use it on your main to increase attack power or you can put it on your ogres & you get a special bebefit with higher attack power like 10 instead of 5 & say the benefit lets them ignore obstacles also so it would be more worthwild to give the club to your ogres then the main hero, or he may have a dif weapon lol.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Karim26
Known Hero
Land of Snowfall & Sunshine
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posted March 16, 2003 08:31 AM |
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I would opt for keeping the hero as a unit, actively paticipating in the battle.
However, I would add a twist to it.
Something along the line of having 2 categories of heroes:
1) category of hero that is very afforadble
2) category of hero that is very expensive
THE first category of hero would allow the hero to participate in a battle only as a 3rd person, providing minor benfits to troops. Same concept as Heroes III. This type of hero may not attack nor be killed. Suggested Retail Price: 1500-2500 gold.
THE second category of hero would allow the hero to participate on a battle as an active unit. Same concept as Heroes IV. Suggested Retail Price: 3000-5000 gold, plus a few resources.
In otherwords, a hybrid-type of hero system, combining HMM3 and HMM4 features.
RK
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted March 16, 2003 08:54 AM |
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nothing feels as great as earning your creatures building them.
Also mayhaps some added spells, you can read some books for some more ideas & some more mythylogical creatures like hmmm Chimeras  .
Also mayhaps an elemental skill for example Tower is native to snow, & Fortress Marsh.
Mayhaps a wizard can cast a snow elemental spell so the terrain will all be snow then say grass & also gives every creature +1 to thier attributes, just an idea.
To me the more creatures the & castles the better & the more dif ways you can build them the more strategies you have to use to it's advantage.
Like heroes 4 with a choice of either Titans or dragon machines.
& it reflects on what you buy in your own castle also to fend off to either a long range or a meele monster with no retaliation.
The more you can do for you castle with choices, the more your oponent has to worry about, not the he will build angels day 5 lol.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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sirpunkalot
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 16, 2003 01:49 PM |
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no heros no might
If you do away with heros in combat you might as well scrap the might castle. Without the barbarian in play on the battle field the might castle will be at a very serious disadvantage.
support our troop
bring freedom to the world
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted March 16, 2003 07:13 PM |
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Yea if orcs only had a braaaaain dododododoooo.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted March 17, 2003 03:22 AM |
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how come we don't get to spam in mah but they can in here ?!
damn veteran tossers 
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted March 17, 2003 04:35 AM |
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hehe because I have special priviledges 
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Dreaming of a Better World
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted March 17, 2003 05:26 AM |
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Welcome by the way
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted March 17, 2003 07:26 AM |
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Should they keep heroes in battles in Homm5? YES
But they arent going to for homm5. Also if you asked this in the homm3 community, there would be more votes for NO.
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splexx
Known Hero
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posted March 17, 2003 03:08 PM |
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Heroes in battle for H5...NO
RMG for H5..there had better be
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Azif..
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Marelt_Ekiran
Promising
Famous Hero
Watcher of All
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posted March 18, 2003 02:35 AM |
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To be honest Mr. Vesuvius, I have looked at the 3do community several times, and I have the feeling that everyone there hates every single aspect of HOMM4 and that their biggest dream would be if HOMM5 were an exact copy of HOMM3.
I still think that the basic ideas of HOMM4 were the best of all, but they just didn't think about them enough and had too little testing. That is why I like forums like the Altar of Wishes. Post ideas for improvements and hope that NWC takes the best of them.
I actually wrote some articles about the problem of heroes on the Round Table. Perhaps some people would like to add their own thoughts.
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AzureDragonTM
Known Hero
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posted March 18, 2003 04:30 AM |
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I was a great fan of heroes3, but I think heroes 4 it's 100% better than heroes3. Let's say it's like u compare a 1960 Porsche with a 2003 Porsche. Yes u can keep heroes3 only for collection. And I hope Heroes5 will be better than h4 not just an improved copy of h3. The only issue that must be resolved in h5 I think it must be the transfer thing. Also they can still patch h4 for better results. I think a lot of h3 players quit because transfer thing. And i greatly hope that will keep heroes on battle fields, and maybe they can make the army bigger than 7 slots. Like 9-11 slots. And in the castle more creatures and with upgrades. But make sure they remove that Hill Fort . BUT THE HEROES MUST STAY ON BATTLEFIELD !!!! I like a battle with 4-5 heroes and 5-7 different creatures. And the difference between last level and the other levels shouldn't be so big like in h4. If the last level will be 7 (like in h3) u will be able to take out 3 level 7 with 10 level 6.
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Evil Ghost Pirate LeChuck
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EvilLoynis
Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
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posted March 18, 2003 12:27 PM |
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Quote:
I would opt for keeping the hero as a unit, actively paticipating in the battle.
However, I would add a twist to it.
Something along the line of having 2 categories of heroes:
1) category of hero that is very afforadble
2) category of hero that is very expensive
THE first category of hero would allow the hero to participate in a battle only as a 3rd person, providing minor benfits to troops. Same concept as Heroes III. This type of hero may not attack nor be killed. Suggested Retail Price: 1500-2500 gold.
THE second category of hero would allow the hero to participate on a battle as an active unit. Same concept as Heroes IV. Suggested Retail Price: 3000-5000 gold, plus a few resources.
In otherwords, a hybrid-type of hero system, combining HMM3 and HMM4 features.
RK
If you added to this that you were only allowed two heroes an army it would be good.
Like you have one hero as the comander and one under him that can actually participate in battle. And give the comander a lot more def so he can't be taken out early. Also get back those Specialties!!!
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"I am both selfish and instictive. I value nature and the world around me as means to an end as well as an end in itself; at best I ... too long to display...
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jondifool
Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
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posted March 21, 2003 07:06 PM |
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greatings
(forgive me for a long post and for raising my voice in this forum )
Its not an easy subject!
Personal I find it very dificult to decide! Not because I don't have a meaning, but because of the impact it has on the game! And I don't think that a simple YES or NO gives enough idea of that, as it in most cases just point back to if we like Homm3 or Homm4 the most!
The main Cons with having Heroes on the field is mainly of balance and development!
First a single unit stack can either be to strong or to weak , especial in a game where stacks have strength in numbers! Having to big impact or to little. To get the middle road is very difficult, as (imho) Homm4 had shown!
To make up for the 1 hit kill weakness or to gain the uberstrength of being unkilleble, we have seen that the development of heroes have been locked into a few must have skills! Making all heroes to much alike! This have been a high price to pay (currency paid is in lost game quality) as hero development actual is one of the main things in the homm series!
The pros (imho) is the posibility of more strategy/tactical combat. This mainly adress the ability to take out the heroes spellcasting ability and bonuses to army as compared to homm2/3 where it stayed there until battle over (or spell points gone!)!
Its actual a really nice twist to have in the game to be able to take the enemys Hero spellcaster out! And Lets not forget how unbalanced some combos have been (the Homm2 and 3 armageddon/blacks/ efreets !). Heroes on the field makes sush combos less simple to pull and does give more options for countering (get the Hero bad ASAP)
Now I do exspect that most of the readers here know the basic of this very well already! Maybe you use some other words, adress some other flaws! But I think this describes the basic problem (do correct me if you disagree)
TO me the question of having Heroes on the field resolve around the following! Is it posible to solve the balancing and development issues ( as seen in Homm4) and still gain all the tactical/stratetical options and twists as heroes on the battlefield gives!
My stand for long was that, I couldn't see a solution to the single unit problem the hero is and therefor wanted heros off the field! Back to homm3 there and then hoped for other improved stratetical/tactical options to make up for it in Homm5!
But recently I stumbled on a solution (thx to shaowai) I think actual gives heroes a posible balanced apperance on the battlefield.
Assign Heroes to a stack of creatures! The hero simply is part of that stack! The creature stack then gives the hero hitpoints and with that survivability on the field! If killed to easy the stack was to weak. If unkilleable the stack anyway was to strong! With that the balance issue might be solved and that should free the hero to develop a lot more unrestricted!
As exsample imagine a Homm3 battle between balanced week 3 armys of Rampart and Tower! But with the twists that the heroes where assigned to a creature stack! Now what stack to choose? It needs hitpoints to have lasting power in the battle , it needs speed to be the first casting spells, it needs not to be missed to much in the fray as it needs to be protected from a gang up and might have to give up its action when the hero cast spells! Dendroids or unicorns? It of cause still depends of how it was implemented , but I hope the exsample gives the idea some form!
With this long post I simply tell the story that I am now convinced that its actual posible to keep heroes on the field gaining all the benefits to the tactical/strategic issues on the field , and NOT having to pay the price in form of poor battle balance and a spoiled/forced one way development system for the heroes.
So why not then keep heroes on the field!
with regards
Jondifool
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The Oxe is slow, but earth have patience
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted March 22, 2003 02:10 PM |
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I was a great fan of heroes3, but I think heroes 4 it's 100% better than heroes3.
...wow, i never heard of u.
One thing that makes Vets opinions counts is that they know what they are talking about ...like for example Jinxer. Another thing that shows how good a game is the activity of a vet player playing that game...best example for this is Vesuvisus himself... if u see how many time he has played H4 in the first months and how often he did play H3 in the first months, u know that H4 only sucks.
In H4 they made some innovations due to players opinions. Unfortunately some things that theoretically thought would improve that game practically made it suck (for example Heroes on Battlefield, No Chaining, Heroes classes skill different per class BUT always the same in their class). Just to state some examples, there is even more.
I really like for example the different magic schools in H4 and hope the also do it in H5 too. I dont like the less strategic "making-a-big-damage-spell" thinking in H3.
Regarding the first Pics of H5 it really let me hope that the game atmosphere is back, like there is a big lack of it in H4.
Hoping the best for H5
Xarfax1
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