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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 27, 2003 04:51 PM |
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Edited By: splat on 2 Oct 2003
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some new ideas for H4
Hi,
I've been playing Zanfas for a while now and I have some ideas that could make the game better maybe.
I think that you can give your might heroes too much magic power too easily. Giving them basic or advanced magic of some kind is not difficult, and then they can cast things like confusion, quicksand. Or worse, you find a level 3 or 4 scroll and equip it. Then you can cast powerful spells for little mana. I don't see the might heroes run out of mana often (but there are many fountains on Zanfas of course and they are buggy).
I also think single genies and other spellcasters too powerful, they have full mana and can cast spells like song of peace 8 times.
So what about this:
* defeating a single mage in an ivory tower shouldn't give you cat reflexes or vampiric touch scrolls (guess it's a bug).
* a scroll should only cause half-cost if you know the spell. If you don't, then it should be full cost. It's nice that you may cast it without the skill, anyway. This way barbs with 10 mana can cast lev3 scrolls only twice. If you have the skill but not found the spell yet, it should be normal cost minus 2, if you have the basic skill but not the required, it should be normal cost minus 1.
thus:
cost lev1 2 3 4 5
full 2 3 5 8 12
full-1 1 2 4 7 11
full-2 1 1 3 6 10
full/2 1 1 2 4 6
* variable spell casting costs: spells that are so good that they become everybody's favourite, like mass slow, confusion-like spells, unholy song, and many high-level order spells, should be more expensive. Spells like fire aura and spell shackle could be some cheaper.
* a barbarian has more trouble learning magic: his study cost at magic universities and schools should be 3000 or 4000 instead of 2000.
* chance of spell failing. To make difference greater between magic heroes and might heroes, and to make 1-creature stacks of spellcasters weaker. If you have lots of magic skills, or your stack of spellcasters has lots of creatures, it should have little chance of failure, in other cases, higher chance. It could be linked to the highest magic skill mastery (BA/AD/EX/MA/GM) for any magic school, for heroes. Sample percents:
non BA AD EX MA GM
45% 35 25 15 10 0
so barb with scroll and no magic skills would fail in 45% of cases. Mass spells would have a failure chance for each target separately. So barb with mass curse scroll would curse about half the targets. Bless spells can also fail.
To help starting magic heroes, the percents for the classes druid, necromancer, mage, priest and sorceror should be:
BA AD EX MA GM
15 12 8 4 0
so becoming an advanced class to soon is not wise then.
There could be an exception for wands. They have limited mana and don't carry over-powered spells anyway. Or those lower percents I just mentioned could apply for them.
Another idea to make smallstack spellcasters weaker is, you need a certain number of creatures to get the normal mana. If you have fewer, you will have less mana with that stack. One genie would get 3 mana for example.
Some other ideas:
* to make vampires some weaker, their life drain skill could be removed in their retaliation.
* disband: disband boat also option.
* flee problem (fleeing is too good, a riskless teleport-home). Every time you flee, there is a chance that you are captured. If you are captured, you go to prison (enemy players) or you are dead (against neutrals). The chance you are captured depends on:
-- how many creatures you sacrifice (in the dirty cases, you don't sacrifice any!)
-- whether the path to your castle is blocked by other strong armies. not if you have town gate + mana for that.
-- how much health your heroes have.
-- their speed and movement.
-- enemies' speed and movement.
And you are not back at once. If you have town gate or you are close to the castle, you are back next turn. Otherwise you travel like a caravan. You must have enough mana to cast the town gate. But after travelling 1 or 2 days, you have enough mana for town gate, of course.
Casting town gate in combat must be made impossible. Too good for a level 3 spell. For a level 5 spell also.
* Teleport spell working on friends only.
* stealth skill less powerful: it should work normally on enemy players, walking neutrals, and guarding lev1 and 2 neutrals, but for guarding lev3 creats you should require GM stealth, and guarding lev4's should be unrobbable. This way you need high stealth to get the gold mines the easy way with guards protecting them for you. And you can't take relics without doing a major battle.
* I want to see whether I have visited the library/vetguild yet, just like merc camps and training grounds. And universities could give me a message: "your army has followed a total of x courses here."
* Sometimes I didn't see what an enemy magic hero did, and I would like to see if I click him, what his last cast spell was, and what creatures he cast it on.
* AI players shouldn't caravan from dwellings every turn, this way you can't steal some creatures, and every time you take his castle, some small caravans run into the field, and you have to kill them later if you want the player to be dead.
* I have had some trouble rightclicking enemy armies on the adventure map who were behind an altar. Maybe some shift key (like: shift) which makes that you can only select armies and not objects, could help.
* I would like to have some more fun with my diplo/summon/necro skills: I want to get the right creatures. Of course there is the trick that you create only one possibility for the summon skill, but it doesn't work on diplo and necro. For diplo, it should work firstly on creatures I also have in my army. For necro, the same thing, if I chose cerberi, I don't want to get ghosts, usually, I want to keep piling skeletons.
* Can't see the unrounded creature growths anywhere (if you have nobility) in 800x600 graphics mode.
* If a player is out of towns, his armies should become visible, and you should see all their locations by clicking some button, in a slide show. This way it is easier to finish off AI players who have only some small 1-creature armies left.
* things like statesman's medal, necromancy amplifier, infernal effigy, necklace of charm, and amulet of the undertaker, should also have some XP effect, not just % effect, otherwise they do nothing in most cases.
* You shouldn't be able to cast friendly spells on hypnotized units,
* Some creatures should be immune to mana losing and receiving, like angel, phoenix and devil. So no effect of magic amplifier, no imp take or give, no power drain, magic leech, mana flare. It is not such a problem for devils maybe, they have their own imps to get it back again. If you use a lot of separate imp stacks, and you have no heroes, you can sometimes cast summon ice demon 2 or 3 times. But it's different for angels and phoenixes.
* I think first strike ability is very strong in H4, it affects both attacking and defending situations. So the mass snake/first strike spells are too effective. And the creatures who have it are very good. First strike could be split into "offensive" and "defensive" first strike. Then the mass snake strike would only give offensive first strike, and chaos mass first strike only defensive, for example. And some creatures that are good enough, should get only one of the two abilities.
Some bugs:
* mayhem staff doesn't affect fireball spell.
* if you switch heroes in the army screen, then the artifact backpack view is reset to the top, but the slider isn't. If you touch the slider one step, the view jumps back. If you switch heroes you should see the artifacts from the current position of the slider.
* chainmail +7 instead of +8.
* evil eye casts order spells, like forgetfulness, cowardice.
* I once met a AI player's barbarian, who had GM combat, but his defense ratings were below 60, and he had no negative spell effects.
Maybe I have posted some of this before. I have gathered it all in a big h4-wishes textfile.
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 09, 2003 11:47 PM |
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here is some more
* I want total xp gained report at end of battle, like in H3.
* I want to decide in fort/cita/castle defending battles, whether each stack is on the wall, or behind it. If I put a weak lowlevel hero inside a castle, I want him to cast spells like stoneskin from a safe place, where enemy archers can't hit him. But the computer puts him on the wall, so I can cast spells and shoot at enemies. I have to spend a turn walking backward, and sometimes he doesn't even live that long.
* If a hero is killed during a siege, defending or attacking, and his army wins, I think the hero shouldn't gain experience. That makes it worthwile killing enemy heroes in sieges you don't win.
* To make combat heroes less powerful, give them fewer potions: not unlimited potions for sale in the shops, for example, 1 of each per week, immortality 2 per week. And, besides the immortality, only 1 potion must be allowed to be used before the battle, from these four: strength, toughness, cold, speed. In battle it costs you your action, so unlimited use must be allowed there. Right now the barbarians make themselves extra powerful by buying lots and lots of toughness, strength and cold potions, and using them all three before every tough battle.
* mana potions shouldn't be able to give you more mana than your usual maximum.
* forgetfulness should work for 3 turns, just like blind.
* give multiple artifacts and give all artifacts options, to speed up artifact trading between your heroes and creatures.
* death magic must have line-of-sight limitations also.
* raise ghost spell is very good, I think the aging attack shouldn't have 100% success chance, it should depend on number of ghosts. With aging, you can double-slow the target, so it moves at 1 or 2 speed and movement, usually.
* mazes, mystical gardens etc. give you too much stuff after the first time. Maybe the booty counter is not reset to zero after the first time. Or it starts counting directly after it is plundered instead of when there are new inhabitants.
* gravestones can take courses at universities, shouldn't be.
* undead transformer description in some helpscreen says: level4 -> ghosts, but level4 -> vampires/bone dragons.
* holding down shift should cause your melee attacker not to move prior to attacking, this way you can force him to stay on a castle tower. And ranged attackers should never walk unless you press the shift key.
Edit by Lich: Moving to Altar of Wishes.
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 18, 2003 05:47 PM |
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Edited By: splat on 18 May 2003
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ok here is some more:
* the base mana of heroes should not always be 10. For magic heroes give some number between 6 and 10 (not random, one value always, don't know the best yet), for might heroes give about 4 or 6, and barbarians: zero. This way mana runs out more often, and barbarians have an extra magic weakness.
* Barbarians shouldn't be able to visit sacred fountains until they change class.
* Resurrection at town temple not free. Price determined in campaign editor. A different price can be set for sanctuaries.
* Finding an enemy player's grave should allow you to send him to your nearest prison.
* When sorting artifacts in the army screen, not only should the potions be sorted down, but also artifacts in order of importance. And a level 4 scroll is a powerful artifact, BTW.
* To make barbarian tactics even weaker (in some cases): no automatic healing at end of turn. Staying the night in a town should give you full health, but in the field you should gain only 10%.
* In the army screen, I want to press some button and then see a report, that tells me what mass bonuses apply to my army, split in a 'creatures' section and a 'heroes' section. For example, creatures: +70% defense, +50 offense, fire resistance, +5 morale. Heroes: fire resistance, +3 morale. It is not so urgent, however.
* I want spellpower bonuses to be multiplied and not added. Right now, GM pyro and GM sorcery gives you x3 and not x4. And the eye of chaos makes it x3.5 and not x6. The eye of chaos, the mayhem staff and the sorcery skill are not so valuable now, I think. It also applies to the other spellpower artifacts. But maybe I'm wrong and it will all become to powerful.
* idea for a new chaos level 5 spell: double firebolt. It allows you to shoot the level 2 firebolt twice, so that you can kill a hero completely if it is strong enough. The total damage is still a little less than disintegrate. To make sure it's not too good, the fire bolts could be a little weaker than the level 2 spell.
* To make the AI better without much effort, they could make the AI heroes use and reuse (in battle) immortality potions. I don't know why they don't do it now, is the game too difficult if they do?
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted May 18, 2003 08:54 PM |
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It's been said, by JVC and others, that 3DO is more or less done with Heroes IV. This forum is probably the best place for suggestions for game improvement. H4 won't get improved, but JVC is working on the H5 engine now. Let's hope some of these these ideas are taken into consideration.
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 12, 2003 04:11 PM |
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more:
* instead of "shift prevents movement before your melee attack", a better idea is, I think: "if the melee attack is going to come from a castle tower, the sword should glow yellow, if it will come from the wall, it should glow red." This way, you can see whether you click so that you stay or get onto the tower. If you make a little mistake and you put your stack next to the tower, when you meant to put him onto it, this is a devastating accident. The enemy will attack you from the tower in his turn, making him 2 times stronger instead of 2 times weaker.
* idea for a new structure, a place where you can kill a hero completely, something like 'Temple of Death', or 'Temple of the Damned'.
It is first guarded by an enormous army, then if you kill that you can take a relic that allows transporting enemy heroes. Then if you get there with an enemy hero, you have to cast certain spells (death spells for example, existing or new), and stay there for 3 or 4 turns, so that you can't do it sneakily: you can be stopped by another player. That is how long the ritual takes. The dead hero's portrait turns into a skeleton's.
* idea to resolve too strong 'raise ghost' spell: make it a level 4 spell. Put 'raise zombie' as level 2, and 'raise mummy' as level 3. A raised ghost casts aging, is always succesful at that, it steals a retaliation, it flies and has high movement, and sometimes needs to attacked again, to be destroyed. And that can cause another aging. If you build a borrow mound, you have to sacrifice the kennels, and build the undead transformer, so you pay a price. You also pay an army slot, and regular non-death creatures get minus 2 to their morale. Expert necromancy takes 3 skill upgrades, and also costs you an army slot and gives other creatures -2 morale. But the raise ghost spell doesn't have all these problems. So it should be a level 4 spell.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted July 10, 2003 03:49 PM |
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Edited By: Djive on 10 Jul 2003
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Overall, a lot of good suggestions. I've added comments on the ones where I had a different opinion.
Quote:
* variable spell casting costs: spells that are so good that they become everybody's favourite, like mass slow, confusion-like spells, unholy song, and many high-level order spells, should be more expensive. Spells like fire aura and spell shackle could be some cheaper.
Isn't this best done by assigning them to a higher level?
Quote:
Another idea to make smallstack spellcasters weaker is, you need a certain number of creatures to get the normal mana. If you have fewer, you will have less mana with that stack. One genie would get 3 mana for example.
I'd be inclined to instead share the spellpoints between stacks of the same type. This suggestion doesn't scale well.
Quote:
* to make vampires some weaker, their life drain skill could be removed in their retaliation.
This would be rather illogical, don't you think.
Quote:
* flee problem (fleeing is too good, a riskless teleport-home).
Fleeing needs to have a cost. I'd say it should take several days for the Hero to return, this would balance Fleeing. I'm not keen on sacrificing creatures or the like, or considering speed or similar. The loss of the Hero for some days is a fairly large penalty in itself.
Quote:
stealth skill less powerful: it should work normally on enemy players, walking neutrals, and guarding lev1 and 2 neutrals, but for guarding lev3 creats you should require GM stealth, and guarding lev4's should be unrobbable. This way you need high stealth to get the gold mines the easy way with guards protecting them for you. And you can't take relics without doing a major battle.
This is NOT needed. It's easy to place treasures so you have to fight the stack even if you have Stealth.
I can't say I condole this way of placing treasures since it's very unfair fore Stealth player.
If you want to place guards for a mine which must be fought, then place an Abandoned Mine on the Map.
Quote:
to see whether I have visited the library/vetguild yet, just like merc camps and training grounds. And universities could give me a message: "your army has followed a total of x courses here."
Huh? You already have this function in the game (at least for library & veteran's guilds)
Quote:
* AI players shouldn't caravan from dwellings every turn, this way you can't steal some creatures, and every time you take his castle, some small caravans run into the field, and you have to kill them later if you want the player to be dead.
My impression is that the AI doesn't caravan every turn. I've seen fairly big stacks remain unrecruited in dwellings.
And if you look at incoming caravans after having taken a town then sometimes it's much more creatures than can be generated in a day.
Quote:
* If a player is out of towns, his armies should become visible, and you should see all their locations by clicking some button, in a slide show. This way it is easier to finish off AI players who have only some small 1-creature armies left.
I don't think it would help. The problem is often not that the player has an army. It is that the game doesn't recognize that the player has been vanquished.
Quote:
* Some creatures should be immune to mana losing and receiving, like angel, phoenix and devil. So no effect of magic amplifier, no imp take or give, no power drain, magic leech, mana flare. It is not such a problem for devils maybe, they have their own imps to get it back again. If you use a lot of separate imp stacks, and you have no heroes, you can sometimes cast summon ice demon 2 or 3 times. But it's different for angels and phoenixes.
I very much prefer this the way it works now. The mana drain usually only have a noticable effect on the creatures you mentioned. If you give them immunity the ability becomes more or less useless. If the Angel and Phoenix should be able to use their abilities in combat, then the price they have to pay is that the opponent can negate their ability to do so by use of spells or Imps.
* I think first strike ability is very strong in H4, it affects both attacking and defending situations. So the mass snake/first strike spells are too effective. And the creatures who have it are very good. First strike could be split into "offensive" and "defensive" first strike. Then the mass snake strike would only give offensive first strike, and chaos mass first strike only defensive, for example. And some creatures that are good enough, should get only one of the two abilities.
Quote:
* evil eye casts order spells, like forgetfulness, cowardice.
And? The Evil Sorceress casts Chaos spells. Most spellcasters casts spells outside the own college, sometimes of an enemy college. Water Elemental casts Ice Bolts as another example.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 10, 2003 05:38 PM |
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Quote:
* variable spell casting costs: spells that are so good that they become everybody's favourite, like mass slow, confusion-like spells, unholy song, and many high-level order spells, should be more expensive. Spells like fire aura and spell shackle could be some cheaper.
Isn't this best done by assigning them to a higher level?
-> Then you also need a higher magic mastery to cast them, and the question is whether that is needed. I think the confusion-like spells are good enough to be level 3. Others should only be one point more expensive, or more.
Quote:
Another idea to make smallstack spellcasters weaker is, you need a certain number of creatures to get the normal mana. If you have fewer, you will have less mana with that stack. One genie would get 3 mana for example.
I'd be inclined to instead share the spellpoints between stacks of the same type. This suggestion doesn't scale well.
-> I had another idea, posted it somewhere else: if the casting stack is less than 25% as powerful as the target stack, then there should be a chance of spellfail, that chance increasing with the proportion. Because then you have the "single genie peace-singing 100 behemoths" case, which doesn't feel right.
Quote:
* to make vampires some weaker, their life drain skill could be removed in their retaliation.
This would be rather illogical, don't you think.
-> Maybe it is enough if GM necromancy gives a max of 1 vampire. There should be a system to select the creature type you want.
Quote:
* flee problem (fleeing is too good, a riskless teleport-home).
Fleeing needs to have a cost. I'd say it should take several days for the Hero to return, this would balance Fleeing. I'm not keen on sacrificing creatures or the like, or considering speed or similar. The loss of the Hero for some days is a fairly large penalty in itself.
-> I still like my idea more, with the chance of being captured. You should surrender if you want to be safe. Maybe neutrals should take surrender money also.
Quote:
stealth skill less powerful: it should work normally on enemy players, walking neutrals, and guarding lev1 and 2 neutrals, but for guarding lev3 creats you should require GM stealth, and guarding lev4's should be unrobbable. This way you need high stealth to get the gold mines the easy way with guards protecting them for you. And you can't take relics without doing a major battle.
This is NOT needed. It's easy to place treasures so you have to fight the stack even if you have Stealth.
I can't say I condole this way of placing treasures since it's very unfair fore Stealth player.
If you want to place guards for a mine which must be fought, then place an Abandoned Mine on the Map.
-> I don't agree. I still like my idea. But maybe you play another mapsize, I play XL.
Quote:
to see whether I have visited the library/vetguild yet, just like merc camps and training grounds. And universities could give me a message: "your army has followed a total of x courses here."
Huh? You already have this function in the game (at least for library & veteran's guilds)
-> Huh???? The libraries and vetguilds say: for a fee, you can....... visited or not visited. Don't they?
Quote:
* AI players shouldn't caravan from dwellings every turn, this way you can't steal some creatures, and every time you take his castle, some small caravans run into the field, and you have to kill them later if you want the player to be dead.
My impression is that the AI doesn't caravan every turn. I've seen fairly big stacks remain unrecruited in dwellings.
And if you look at incoming caravans after having taken a town then sometimes it's much more creatures than can be generated in a day.
-> Yes, my impression too lately... Maybe the only thing: make those fleeing small caravans easier to stop. I put some armies in front of the town to intercept them, but they still get past often. If they always start at the front door and meet anyone who is there, you can stop them easily.
Quote:
* If a player is out of towns, his armies should become visible, and you should see all their locations by clicking some button, in a slide show. This way it is easier to finish off AI players who have only some small 1-creature armies left.
I don't think it would help. The problem is often not that the player has an army. It is that the game doesn't recognize that the player has been vanquished.
-> my experience is that the player still has an army. If I find it and kill it, the player is dead. If I don't find it, it will make me wait 30 secs every turn, for one small army...
Quote:
* Some creatures should be immune to mana losing and receiving, like angel, phoenix and devil. So no effect of magic amplifier, no imp take or give, no power drain, magic leech, mana flare. It is not such a problem for devils maybe, they have their own imps to get it back again. If you use a lot of separate imp stacks, and you have no heroes, you can sometimes cast summon ice demon 2 or 3 times. But it's different for angels and phoenixes.
I very much prefer this the way it works now. The mana drain usually only have a noticable effect on the creatures you mentioned. If you give them immunity the ability becomes more or less useless. If the Angel and Phoenix should be able to use their abilities in combat, then the price they have to pay is that the opponent can negate their ability to do so by use of spells or Imps.
-> I don't agree. It is too easy now, they have exactly enough mana, one imp drain stops such an enormous ability.
Maybe because mana is too plentiful in most maps, that spell is not so good. You could use powerdrain on water elementals and genies and such. Usually the battle ends before they run out of mana, but if you cast mana leech also, they can cast only 2 spells. BTW casting powdrain on phoenixes doesn't work well: when they're dead, all spells are removed... including powerdrain.
Quote:
* evil eye casts order spells, like forgetfulness, cowardice.
And? The Evil Sorceress casts Chaos spells. Most spellcasters casts spells outside the own college, sometimes of an enemy college. Water Elemental casts Ice Bolts as another example.
-> the evil eye is supposed to cast death and chaos spells only, according to his descriptions. I think forgetfulness is very powerful, and the evil eye's spells should be annoying but not devastating. And forgetfulness is his only lev3 spell.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted July 10, 2003 06:15 PM |
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Quote:
-> Then you also need a higher magic mastery to cast them, and the question is whether that is needed. I think the confusion-like spells are good enough to be level 3. Others should only be one point more expensive, or more.
Yes, but you just stated that the spell did a lot more than other comparable spells of the same level.
Quote:
-> I had another idea, posted it somewhere else: if the casting stack is less than 25% as powerful as the target stack, then there should be a chance of spellfail, that chance increasing with the proportion. Because then you have the "single genie peace-singing 100 behemoths" case, which doesn't feel right.
Well, if the Song of Peace robs the other 300 Genies you have with you of 3 spellpoints then I'd say the cost is appropriate don't you agree? Besides, if 1 Hero can song of peace 100 Behemoths then why not 1 Genie?
Quote:
-> Maybe it is enough if GM necromancy gives a max of 1 vampire. There should be a system to select the creature type you want.
The culprit is Necromancy. I'd be inclined to believe it's unbalanced already at Expert and Master. You need some tough limitation such as "Can't create more than 1 Vampire per day". (Rather than one per battle.)
Quote:
-> I don't agree. I still like my idea. But maybe you play another mapsize, I play XL.
Perhaps I should paraphrase my point.
If the Map Maker wants you to have to fight a stack to get an artifact then he can design the map that way. (Stealth requires a "passable" path to the artifact and if none exist you have to fight.)
If the Map Maker wants you to have you to fight Mine Guards, then he makes an "Abandonded Mine", since Stealth can't by-pass those guards.
Therefore, the usefulness of Stealth in these two cases is entirely up to the Map Maker.
Perhaps, you should looks for maps made by Map Makers who shares your ideas on stealth?
Quote:
-> Huh???? The libraries and vetguilds say: for a fee, you can....... visited or not visited. Don't they?
When I have an army selected and holds the mouse over the library (hold it over library a few seconds) then I get a "visited" indication. (This indication may be a bit misleading if you have several heroes in army and some have visited and others haven't.)
This is not the same text as the one you are referring to. I believe you also get the map coordinates and perhaps something else also.
Quote:
-> I don't agree. It is too easy now, they have exactly enough mana, one imp drain stops such an enormous ability.[/quote.]
The way I see it. I hardly ever use the Angels resurrection. The Imps should number 10-100 the number of Angels in any normal battle. The likely effect is that the Imps should drain all the Angel's spellpoint in one big drain. That's the normal scenario. The compromise of taking just 2 spellpoints is to make it work the same way as for every other creature, and because you don't want to give the Hero all those spellpoints that were taken from the Angels in one go.
I don't think Angels should ressurrect at all in battle. They should instead add HP total or a % to the Hero's resurrection skill at end of combat. As for Phoexnies it would be best if it worked the same way as in H3. (Let it trigger when the creature died.) Now you not only get the Problem with the Imp, you also get the bad thing that renewing a Summon replenishes the Phoenixes spellpoints.
But if you give the Angel the advantage to select when to use the ability, it's only fair that the normal methods of shutting down spellcasters work.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 13, 2003 09:05 PM |
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Edited By: splat on 13 Jul 2003
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Quote:
Then you also need a higher magic mastery to cast them, and the question is whether that is needed. I think the confusion-like spells are good enough to be level 3. Others should only be one point more expensive, or more.
Yes, but you just stated that the spell did a lot more than other comparable spells of the same level.
-> For some good spells, you want them to be available soon (low-level) but they should be expensive to cast. They allow players to defeat strong armies in the beginning phase of the game. It feels right. If the cost of such a spell is higher, it honors the spell, and it also prevents you from casting it too often.
Quote:
I had another idea, posted it somewhere else: if the casting stack is less than 25% as powerful as the target stack, then there should be a chance of spellfail, that chance increasing with the proportion. Because then you have the "single genie peace-singing 100 behemoths" case, which doesn't feel right.
Well, if the Song of Peace robs the other 300 Genies you have with you of 3 spellpoints then I'd say the cost is appropriate don't you agree? Besides, if 1 Hero can song of peace 100 Behemoths then why not 1 Genie?
-> About the 1 hero confusing 100 behemoths: it depends what kind of hero it is, whether it feels right. A level 30 archmage has the power to stop huge stacks. He has strong magic, and he is specialized in it, so he can do it. But a level 25 general with 25 tactics/combat skills and advanced nature magic, should not be able to. It is a fighter, not a wizard, he can't stop 100 behemoths with his poor magic. In that post I mentioned I also explained about the heroes, class-related magic should never fail, and otherwise the failchance depends upon the mastery of the magic you're casting a spell from. Scroll: 50%, basic: 40%, exp: 20%, GM: 5%. About the single genie stacks: I think that mana sharing idea is not bad. But maybe because many battles are so short, you don't feel the pain of that often.
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-> Maybe it is enough if GM necromancy gives a max of 1 vampire. There should be a system to select the creature type you want.
The culprit is Necromancy. I'd be inclined to believe it's unbalanced already at Expert and Master. You need some tough limitation such as "Can't create more than 1 Vampire per day". (Rather than one per battle.)
-> maybe the solution is: no more vampires with necro, you only get skels, zombies, mummies and ghosts. Of course, there should be the selection system to choose which creatures you get.
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-> I don't agree. I still like my idea. But maybe you play another mapsize, I play XL.
Perhaps I should paraphrase my point.
If the Map Maker wants you to have to fight a stack to get an artifact then he can design the map that way. (Stealth requires a "passable" path to the artifact and if none exist you have to fight.)
If the Map Maker wants you to have you to fight Mine Guards, then he makes an "Abandonded Mine", since Stealth can't by-pass those guards.
Therefore, the usefulness of Stealth in these two cases is entirely up to the Map Maker.
Perhaps, you should looks for maps made by Map Makers who shares your ideas on stealth?
-> I already understood your point. I apply it to Zanfas Challenge (the only XL map in the original game): maybe it would just ruin the looks of the map if the mapmaker put trees or rocks around every major artifact, to block thieves. A Grandmaster thief is easy to make on this map. And abandoned mines look and feel different than the usual situation too. To satisfy other maps were the current situation feels nicer, maybe it should be a map setting, that you can set in the campaign editor "stealth: full/reduced". Another good thing is that thieves don't grow too fast anymore, because sneaking around those level fours gives them very much XP.
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-> I don't agree. It is too easy now, they have exactly enough mana, one imp drain stops such an enormous ability.
The way I see it. I hardly ever use the Angels resurrection. The Imps should number 10-100 the number of Angels in any normal battle. The likely effect is that the Imps should drain all the Angel's spellpoint in one big drain. That's the normal scenario. The compromise of taking just 2 spellpoints is to make it work the same way as for every other creature, and because you don't want to give the Hero all those spellpoints that were taken from the Angels in one go.
I don't think Angels should ressurrect at all in battle. They should instead add HP total or a % to the Hero's resurrection skill at end of combat. As for Phoexnies it would be best if it worked the same way as in H3. (Let it trigger when the creature died.) Now you not only get the Problem with the Imp, you also get the bad thing that renewing a Summon replenishes the Phoenixes spellpoints.
But if you give the Angel the advantage to select when to use the ability, it's only fair that the normal methods of shutting down spellcasters work.
-> Maybe renewing summons shouldn't fully replenish spellpoints anymore.
About adding to the resurrection skill: that could be too good also. GM resurrect gives you 50%, cardinal and ankh can make it 65% (should be 60% of course, bug). If it grows to 80% or higher because of the angels, then you lose too few creatures.
And about their great spell, they can't wait too long before they cast the spell, because if some angels die, the spell gets weaker. And they can cast it on only one stack, if all stacks lose some, then adding to the resurrect skill would be more powerful. Of course it is a superspell in the situation we are in often: you hardly lose creatures, you lose them from only one stack, and your angels wait in the back to resurrect them at the right time.
Maybe if you think it is good that the angels' spell can be stolen by imps, they should have some spare mana to survive the first leeching.
If you think the likely effect of the high number of imps is that they drain a lot of mana, you could also suggest it as a feature: the more imps, the more mana is drained. It also makes the simple imp weaker: <40: 1 point, 40-200: 2 points, 200-350: 3 points, 350-500: 4 points, etc. With a certain maximum, or else they become too good.
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soccerfeva
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted August 03, 2003 03:29 PM |
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This is my new idea-make the battlefield so big that it will become an extremely strategic game,like for example phoneixs,fastest movers in the game,will take 2 turns to reach the other side.
Then there should be further broken arrows.
Good arrows.
Broken arrows
Futher broken arrows.
I reckon perhapes we could take out archers completely in the game.Yes you heard me right,completely,and leaving the game with no archers,strategic game,fair all rounded game,huh?
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this_other_guy
Famous Hero
{0_o} heh...
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posted August 04, 2003 11:38 AM |
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Quote:
I reckon perhapes we could take out archers completely in the game.Yes you heard me right,completely,and leaving the game with no archers,strategic game,fair all rounded game,huh?
Thats the most idiotic thing i've heard yet.
Archers only makes the game MORE strategic.
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1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted August 04, 2003 08:59 PM |
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Edited By: Djive on 16 Aug 2003
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Actually, IMO removing spellcasting creatures from H4 has about the same implications as removing archers.
You drain the player of a lot of the flexibility they have in combat, making the game a lot less strategic.
A spellcaster with only damage spell is many ways the same thing as an archer.
Edited in a reply to splat's post:
Different costs for spells on the same levels sounds like a reasonable idea to me.
On splitting Genie stacks and a common spellpoints. I'd say that I'd have to drastically revise my tactics if this change was made. When using genies the 2-3 single stacks are standard. They start with casting slow and then later cast song of peace or cowardice. All this time the main stack is casign Illusion or Ice Bolt. Mana would be out in two-three rounds, and combat with genies are usually drawn out in time.
Another way to guard artifacts is to give the artifact to the stack, and add a sign-post or other trigger telling the player that the stack has this artifact. Quest Huts is yet another way of accomplishing about the same thing.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 02, 2003 11:49 AM |
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Edited By: splat on 2 Oct 2003
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If you make all mines abandoned mines to prevent theft, then skills like diplo and charm are much less useful.
And if you put all artifacts in the backpacks of creatures with a sign next to them, that looks and feels different.
I'd rather see the icon of the artifact on the map. Otherwise you have to go read that sign to see what it is, also.
So I still say, GM stealth be required for lev3 stealing, and lev4 stealing impossible, but creatures with wander attribute and enemy player armies are passable as before.
I have 2 new ideas, one of them maybe mentioned before:
1. making necromancy weaker:
Do you think necromancers can make man-sized skeletons out of dead leprechaun bodies? Dead animals are no good for that either.
So, every creature should have its own necromancy options.
From nature alignment, I think all creatures are useless except satyr, maybe. From order, only mages and perhaps titans. From life, most creatures are useful, because there are so many normal humans.
Very few creature types should have vampires as an option!
And what about black dragons yielding bone dragons, if you kill enough of them and have enough necro skill?
Only one undead type can be focused on per battle, so if you kill an enemy army with 1000 bandits and 20 black dragons, you'd have to choose between 1 bone dragon or 100 skeletons, for example.
Zombies and mummies should also be options, why not.
Of course, like I said, there should be a choice system, a dialog that shows you what you will get for each undead type. "I want nothing" must be an option too.
Like diplo isn't always useful because not all stacks give the creatures you use, then this way necro will give creatures less often.
edit:
BTW, why does the death grail structure strengthen necro, while order's doesn't improve diplo/charm, life's doesn't affect resurrection, and nature's doesn't change summoning (skill)? I think it should be all yes or all no. And if all yes, chaos should get some more damage powerup, because the others all get two things, chaos just one.
edit2: another way to make necromancy poorer, with a touch of reality: it takes some time to do all that necro work. So if you choose to use the skill on the dead enemies, your army's turn should be over, or at least some % of your movement should be gone.
edit3: all creatures have an XP value, that you get if you kill them (on normal difficulty). The necromancy skill uses this value also. But I'd say, give all undead another value, the 'necro cost', and use this instead of the XP value for necromancy. Then if you think too many ghosts or vampires or bonedrags can be made with necro, you just increase their necro cost, instead of their XP value. Increasing the latter too much is not an option for some reasons.
2. weakening the super might heroes:
this problem can be resolved by making the melee and archery skill less damaging, I think. GM skills shouldn't give a second blow. An alternative for GM archery could be: base archery rating 40, dividing defense by 2, and if first shot required less then 50% of the shots power, a second shot is fired at another target with 30% of the first shot's power, no retaliation. Nice for destroying two small stacks.
An alternative for GM melee could be 50/4, and some special effect like stunning. Or maybe just 40/4, and the previous masteries lower numbers.
And mapmakers shouldn't put too many training grounds and arena's on the map. Chaos and might towns also give you some of that.
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted October 10, 2003 01:37 PM |
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Teleport
Teleport spell should be level3 and work only on friendly units.
Teleport Other spell would be level4-5 and would work on enemy creatures.
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 11, 2003 03:35 PM |
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yes, teleport like it is now is very much overpowered for a level 3 spell. You can put enemy heroes or ranged attackers in front of your melee stacks, or cast slow and then prevent the enemy from ever reaching you, by pushing him back again and again with teleport.
I think it's best to leave the enemy-teleporting out completely, just like in H3.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
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