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| Thread: Bush: Is he a hotheaded idiot or did he save us from a nuke? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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Damacon_Ace
Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
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posted May 25, 2003 06:51 AM |
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Good points Gootch, I tend to get annoyed at those who whine about draft dodgers. Nam was NOT a national emergency where the US was desperately in need of troops. Given that there was no national emergency, people have the right to decide that the war, or any other like it is not something they support and therefore will avoid. Had clinton avoided fighting in say WWII (assuming he was older of course) then I would consider that pretty unpatriotic due to the situation. It's also a little rich criticising Clinton for it when bush himself spent his time in Texas in the National Gaurd rather than Nam.
Bush may not have protested against the war, but in critcising Clinton for such things you are all but saying that you make the assumption that protesting against the war was in some way unpatriotic which is just wrong. Democracy and freedom of choice and specch has to continue in the event of conflict unless the country is in danger. As it was not, people had and have the right to exercise those freedoms.
Whether it is a rally in support of war, or against war, using a violent protest just to make ordinary soldiers look like evil meandoers is NOT the right way to send a message that you oppose such a thing. Sure, democracy gives the public the right to express their opinions, but using these rights to humiliate others isn't what I call "good use" of Democracy.
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Hmmm yes, basically the argument would be that you did need a large millitary under the cold war situation due to the stregnth of Russia, now you don't, so wolfman saying Russia is a rotting corpse of a country is irrelevant, because he's talking about now, not back then, which was your reference. Same thing with Russia, armed forces geared for a cold war In mid Europe, when they sold their tanks, deigned for the plains of germany, so low and without desert specialties to the likes of Egypt they were next to useless.
True, PH. Russia has broken down a fair bit since the break up of the Soviet Union in 1991. But that dosen't mean that Russia is a weak country in the military sense. They still have an army large enough to invade and wipe out many smaller countries.
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No one knows my true nature here...
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Khayman
Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
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posted May 25, 2003 11:07 PM |
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Quick thoughts
Great post and many valid points. I am finding it very difficult to argue with some of your statements. Allow me to digest it a bit more before I respond too hastily. However, let me address the most important parts of your post.
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And that, I think, is the biggest difference between you and I. I refuse to look at these issues from the narrow scope of a military man.
Right there you are stereotyping the military man when you yourself fall into that category. This statement makes it appear that you believe you are somehow more enlightened than everybody else in the military. My question is why do you feel that your opinion is superior to that of your fellow service members? Is it because you feel that you are smarter or more intellectual since you may have more education? Or is it because you feel that you have more experience in worldly affairs than they do? If you could explain this, it would help clear things up a bit. The reason that I say this is because I tend to think of myself as a very objective person, but I do not think myself better than others because of this. What I do have, however, are some beliefs and values that I refuse to compromise, unlike my peers. Therefore, I feel that I may be different from many of my fellow servicemembers, but I would not stereotype the average "military man" as having a narrow scope. IMHO, today's U.S. military is the most intelligent and educated group of men and women to ever wear our uniforms. I feel as if you are belittling them by saying that our military personnel have narrow scopes.Quote:
On a lighter note, I'd love to have a beer with you some day, hopefully several in a row in fact. Those nasty fraternization rules, though...we might have to wait until I put my uniform on for the final time.
Gootch, my brother, I drink with whoever I chose, whether or not they are of my rank, service, or what not. The day I become too good to allow myself to have a few (or several) beers with my fellow Marines, regardless of fraternization, is the day I get out; however, since I am getting out here in a few months, that will all be irrelevant anyways. I'm calling it quits at just over 10. We will talk about why some other time, but let me just reiterate my statement about having some beliefs and values that I refuse to compromise. I never was much of a politician anyway.  Quote:
Until then, to quote Dave Allen, "May your god go with you."
Dude, who is Dave Allen? Is he related to Tim Allen or something? My narrow scope is telling me that he is probably somebody who believes that if you follow a certain set of beliefs or ethics, regardless of your religion, that the world will be a happier place. 
Here's my closing thought. Ride your last remaining days out professionally and try to make everyone with whom you work be the best person they can be. You will be free soon, as will I. Peace out.
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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Damacon_Ace
Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
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posted May 27, 2003 12:31 PM |
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Ah, the Gootch and Khayman. Two loyal American soldiers doing the debate here. How exciting.
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No one knows my true nature here...
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted June 04, 2003 09:25 PM |
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Can't they just shoot at eachother from 200 yards with an M16 like any other respectable Soldier?
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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