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| Thread: 2,000 war unicorns baby~~~ |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted July 31, 2003 07:09 PM |
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The ultimate solution..
since the 2000 unicorns are on a hero, I take his town and keep him away from taking a town for 7+ days, thus I deafeat him without using creatures or mana (spellpoints).
Total score = perfect 3000 ! 
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 01, 2003 10:24 AM |
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The best solution in an acceptable number of turns?
Take any heroe with speciality archery, give him about 10 or 20 sharpshooters, an ammocart, earth magic, FIRE magic, and leadership.
First round you cast slow, next round you cast BERZERK!!!
So you can see, that the unicorns, because of not being able to reach another unit in one turn to fullfill his berzerk, will stay on their hex and wait for....christmas!
So you can shoot 99 rounds and if you need more, BERZERK again.
So i think there are not much spellpoints needed and not much hitpoints!
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Conanthebarbar
Hired Hero
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posted August 01, 2003 10:37 AM |
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Quote:
I am asumming u cant have ammo cart?? if u can all u need is a few slow and 1 master gremlin and 1 ob garg or something... i am not willing to try how many rounds it will take or how many slow u actually need to cast.. since its 1 every 99th round zzzzz. without ammocart i guess u can use no retal troops and slow ie 1 vamp, 1 naga or 1 devil etc.. hmm something tells me i am missing something here .. or? cause if i am not its really not killing alot of braincells..
/archie
Well I like these problems to solve  . These can help to develop battle skills and let work really braincells. However it was pointed out that this is far from common game situation, I cant agree. Let me just mention here some examples from my previous week practice (againts human players on random maps):
- several gold dragons vs horde arch devils
- several arch devils vs horde black dragons
- several ghost drags + horde liches vs throng red dragons
I have no intention to praise myself for those glorious victories or anything. I am sure there are at least 50 players who know what skills and spells need to make successful those fights and how to command those battles avoid losses or minimalize them. My point is only that players can face extreme situations in human vs human games too, especially on Midnight's random templates (blockbuster and extreme). So its useful to think about this "mission impossible" things since you never know when you must use it. I still remember those old times when I solved Archie's problem: How to take utopia (any size!) with 1 Archdevil?
(and not on Mr. Kasparov's way, not at all
I am only really wondering why this thread is still going on? Archie already pointed out very soon what is the solution: no retal units. What kind of mathemathic still do you need to this?? If you like numbers, I can add here a few though, no problem
So my first idea was:
1. My hero is Gundula, skills are obvious: offense, earth, water (all expert). I would call to hero Crag Hack too, but he has problem with water magic, as this was detailed already in antoher thread.
2. Opponent hero: any common hero except armorer skilled and Clancy and not any spell of course. (might heroes then without book if you prefer it)
3. My unit 1 Arch Devil and I need anti-morale artifact too.
4. My spells: slow, bless, clone
Fight: 1st turn I use expert clone onto devils and wait with both at end of turn then I can hit your unicorns with both, but even this not important: to jump to the farest corners from your unicorn with both AD is enough too.
2nd turn: mass slow and wait then defence with ADs or jump to opposite corner (farest place from unicorns)
3rd turn: mass bless onto two AD, and first wait at end of turn hit both unicorns. They do 2x77 damage.
Easy to calculate that on this way they do in every 2nd turn this amount of damage and in next turn jump away.
Together 7623 damage still mass slow lasts: 69-70 unicorns. 2000 unicorns to kill you need to repeat this still 29 times. 30 mass slow and 30 mass bless it means: 30x(4+5)=270 this too huge if we use still 10x mutiple. Plus sometimes clone must repeat too. This was my original idea. Of course we can test this with 10 AD at start too . That would be a lil better for me.
But watching carefully your battle field I came to the conclusion I even dont need mass slow . Since you stated you prevent using unique battlefield exactly you created one hehe. As I sensed (but perhaps I can be wrong) no matter where you place your unicorns (even you centralize them like in chess lol) there is always two squares where I can place my ADs and I can wait in next turn with them. So no mass slow even no mass bless needs and not even a cheap clone: 1 AD alone does the job ON THAT BATTLEFIELD. Of course on an open battlefield a centralized war unicorn reaches all squares, but your battlefield is kind of specific. I hope not this the solution (the battlefield), because I would deeply dissappointed in chess players  . I just mention here that 1 AD blessed, bloodlusted makes exacty 100 damage to an expert distrupting rayed warunicorn.
If not the battlefield is the key (which I frankly hope) why dont you copy a pretty normal, open battlefield without any terrain objects to there, eh?
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted August 01, 2003 02:04 PM |
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The unicorns cant reach every corner! I hav a suggestion..slightly better than AD
Take off the negate morale. Use lorelei(advanced leadership will do)., 1 bone drag and 1 harpy hag. Now only the harpy hag has high morale. You know how to arrange the creatures. play on until you have high morale to attack, though this may take up till a million rounds literally. but on health u saved 200-150-14 pts = 36
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted August 01, 2003 05:11 PM |
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..as he seems to work with bugs i must say that on this specific terrain there is anopther freeze bug. I dunno exactly when this bug occur and what Monster u need for it (it seems its the harpy hag again), but with this kind of obstacle (from left to right) and the unis speed and placement, i think that the unis will go only one step forward right behind the obstacle and wait "for better times to act".
I dunno exactly what to do and what creatures to have to have this situation, but thats another known bug.
Xarfax1
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Conanthebarbar
Hired Hero
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posted August 01, 2003 05:12 PM |
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Quote:
The unicorns cant reach every corner! I hav a suggestion..slightly better than AD
Take off the negate morale. Use lorelei(advanced leadership will do)., 1 bone drag and 1 harpy hag. Now only the harpy hag has high morale. You know how to arrange the creatures. play on until you have high morale to attack, though this may take up till a million rounds literally. but on health u saved 200-150-14 pts = 36
Yeah I like very when people don't read anything just immediately start to bash. I have some screen saves to you, with Kasparov's battlefield and with some normal open battlefield. I would post here those kindly, but since I have not own link I am not able to do that . If you can't imagine what I stated np, just tell me and I will worry about to publish those here later. It seems I must use such cheap tools, since some people seems never saw WARUNICORNS in battle or doesnt read what was the original question (how to beat 2k WARunicorns?). If you show me where you can place your bone drag and harpy hag or even my arch devil(s) if I move with warunicorns to middle of battlefield (on NORMAL EMPTY BATTLEFIELD), I will congratulate to you. If you wanna use mass slow, then harpy hags cost incredible time to make same damage than AD.
My opinion that 10 AD + clone + mass slow + mass bless can make it in 99x785 damage to unicorns still mass slow and mass bless lasts. It means 700 unicorns in tha period, so you must repeat this process still 2 times. Score is:
3000-10x200 (AD HP)-3x20x10(clone)-3x(4+5)x10(mass bless and mass slow)= + 130.
Second version: If I am wrong (it can be easily happen) ans clone doesnt present 99 turns ( I really dont know this I have no patience to wait when it dissappears: I have played over 20 turns and clone ADs still were there) then here is another way:
Mass bless + mass bloodlust onto 10 ADs + slow on war unicorns (simple so is enough too i think, offense needs more to Gundula). 908 damage in every 2nd turn in 2x99 turns it means 99x908 damage=817 unicorns. Must to repeat this 2 times still. So all costs: 3000-10x200-3x(4+4+6)x10=580 score, this seems better. Now you can combine if mass bloodlust, mass slow, mass bless or expert offense how does give the best combination of damage, but I am lazy to calculate that now. So positive score can not by problem anymore.
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted August 01, 2003 05:15 PM |
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Conan stop fakin Archdevils Avatar.
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Conanthebarbar
Hired Hero
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posted August 01, 2003 06:34 PM |
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Quote:
Conan stop fakin Archdevils Avatar.
Yeah sorry if I took (not intentionally though) Archies avatar. When I posted my first thread here, I didnt pick any avatar and I got this automatically. I can imagine you can not sleep well now Xar lol and this is the biggest problem of you: Conan had stolen Archie's avatar. Relax man and b4 you start your usual brutal actions againts me too (fake-reporter, ghost player, ghost hero user, bug user etc, like you usually do to others): I admit you have right and I promise to you I will change it, when I figure it how. Thanks for remark! Excuse me Archie!
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thecastrated
Famous Hero
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posted August 01, 2003 06:38 PM |
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Conan, just solving the problen..
With Lorelei the unicorns will surely have to move first. Based on the obstacle you Surely can place your harpy hag such that unicorn wont touch you within 1 turn. Eg lets say the unicorn is in middle, top of obstacle, I will put Harpie right below the unicorn.
Mayb u were thinking of drag, but it can die if u want it to
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted August 01, 2003 06:39 PM |
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Ok i got a score of 1120 using 500 sprites on Crack Hag.
Skills were exp water, exp earth and exp offence.
Spells were Clone, bless and slow.
I cast clone just once and the other two twice,
thats 20+10+8*10 = 380. 500 sprites* health = 1500
that is 3000-1380 = 1120.
Interesting experiment and i learned a lot from it. My first idea was to use 10 Devils which would have cost me
1600 in health and blessed each stack did 641 damage.
The 500 Sprites cost 100 less health but they inflicted
1840 damage when blessed. There were less than 400 War unicorns standing when clone ran out so i didnt bother to re-cast it.
None of the other non-retal creatures come anywhere near this.
Sprites rock.
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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tewilligar
Famous Hero
Just another willigar
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posted August 01, 2003 07:42 PM |
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exp water? on hack? ZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzz
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ZZZZzzzzZZZZzzzz
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted August 01, 2003 10:48 PM |
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Ok but since both heroes were level 1 i could have put offence and water on any hero and got the same result.
I forgot about barbarians and water.
Say Kasparov you could make it a little harder by deducting 1 point for each round taken to win.
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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Conanthebarbar
Hired Hero
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posted August 01, 2003 11:03 PM |
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Quote:
Ok but since both heroes were level 1 i could have put offence and water on any hero and got the same result.
I forgot about barbarians and water.
No, not same results on any hero: Crag Hack has offence spec even on first level. But dont worry about that water magic. I already pointed out in another thread that Crag Hack theoretically can get it to from a scholar. And if somebody doesnt agree with this, then use for this job Gundula (well that I suggested too, seems nobody have read my long letters though She does same damage as Crag Hack at +99 attack. So your solution is very OK. Congrats! I am only curious if Kaspy points out finally we speak about ANY battlefield (I prefer without obstacles) or HIS SPECIAL battlefield. Since in this latter case we even don't need slow, rather bloodlust then or nothing .
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted August 01, 2003 11:37 PM |
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I used sand terrain because it is not native to any creature. But thinking about it Sprites an Unicorns both are native to grass so this too would have been ok.
About Barbarians. They can also get water from a learning hut, but the cant buy it from the university. Or is it library i always confuse these two.
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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kasparov
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 02, 2003 05:04 AM |
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all the solutions are wonderful and well done folks!
i am looking forward to seeing some more creative/unique answers.
also Xarfax111
was rite. good job. guess you are a mind reader...the terrain was chosen for a specific reason.
so here is one of my solutions to show the uniqueness of this terrain.
luna+expert fire+expert sorcery+spirit of oppression=1 mage+1 dragon fly
place the fire wall rite at the place opposite the unicorns(thats to say around the sprite shown in the picture.)
every time the unicorns will get bunrt 6 times and that's a [deleted] lot of damage(about 15,000)
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted August 02, 2003 05:29 AM |
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This and the firewall thread have inspired me. I want experiment more with it and also do some research into how usefull the landmine and quicksand spells can be.
I dont remember ever having these 2 spells cast against me, but then again i have not played against any vets so i dont know if they ever use them.
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Conanthebarbar
Hired Hero
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posted August 02, 2003 01:16 PM |
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Quote:
all the solutions are wonderful and well done folks!
i am looking forward to seeing some more creative/unique answers.
also Xarfax111
was rite. good job. guess you are a mind reader...the terrain was chosen for a specific reason.
so here is one of my solutions to show the uniqueness of this terrain.
luna+expert fire+expert sorcery+spirit of oppression=1 mage+1 dragon fly
place the fire wall rite at the place opposite the unicorns(thats to say around the sprite shown in the picture.)
every time the unicorns will get bunrt 6 times and that's a [deleted] lot of damage(about 15,000)
If you said battlefield is key, then no spell even need. Ok here is my solution then: 1-1 Arch Devil without any spell. First turn I wait, you move warunicorns to anywhere at end of turn I jump to a place where you can not reach them in next turn (on that battlefield there is at least 2 place, but even more). 2nd turn: I wait with both AD, when you move with war unicorns anywhere I jump to safe disctance with one, with the other I hit you. Next turn I jump to safe place from your unis, and with ohter I wait.
You move at end of turn I hit you again etc. So on this way I dont need slow, bless even not clone. I was so stupid thinking to this clone thing: it cost 20and coz of mulitple 10 its -200 at end and I must cast it more. 1 another AD cost 200 and stays till end of battle. Maybe 1 AD is an interesting thing too, but once you hit war unicorn: next turn you must jump away, then warunicorns come after to you, must jump away again. I am not sure when will be next time i can hit them. Now maybe someone will point out 2-3 sprites can do the same on that concrete battlefield, without any spell.
Finally: Angelito pointed out nice solution too bersker + shooters. Only problem that ammo cart was not mentioned by Kasparov. But his solution I like still: if you run out of ammo, must clone shooters and clones have full ammo, if they run out of ammo let kill the clones (sacrifice them) and then clone the original shooter and new clone will have again full ammo. Its may a bug, but works pretty well, even
in practical games. There is force field and clone is a good tactic.
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kasparov
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 04, 2003 10:29 AM |
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Quote:
If you said battlefield is key, then no spell even need. Ok here is my solution then: 1-1 Arch Devil without any spell. First turn I wait, you move warunicorns to anywhere at end of turn I jump to a place where you can not reach them in next turn (on that battlefield there is at least 2 place, but even more). 2nd turn: I wait with both AD, when you move with war unicorns anywhere I jump to safe disctance with one, with the other I hit you. Next turn I jump to safe place from your unis, and with ohter I wait.
You move at end of turn I hit you again etc. So on this way I dont need slow, bless even not clone. I was so stupid thinking to this clone thing: it cost 20and coz of mulitple 10 its -200 at end and I must cast it more. 1 another AD cost 200 and stays till end of battle. Maybe 1 AD is an interesting thing too, but once you hit war unicorn: next turn you must jump away, then warunicorns come after to you, must jump away again. I am not sure when will be next time i can hit them. Now maybe someone will point out 2-3 sprites can do the same on that concrete battlefield, without any spell.
Finally: Angelito pointed out nice solution too bersker + shooters. Only problem that ammo cart was not mentioned by Kasparov. But his solution I like still: if you run out of ammo, must clone shooters and clones have full ammo, if they run out of ammo let kill the clones (sacrifice them) and then clone the original shooter and new clone will have again full ammo. Its may a bug, but works pretty well, even
in practical games. There is force field and clone is a good tactic.
nice solutions but what if the number of rounds is also taken into consideration?
here is another unique solution.
bring one mage and one sprite with you and one ballista. cast blind and then 20 times of xpert quicksand...well it's just stupid...but it works for even 999999 war unicorns...
by the way i made a new map.
who would like to try it out?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 04, 2003 05:55 PM |
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Quote:
Finally: Angelito pointed out nice solution too bersker + shooters. Only problem that ammo cart was not mentioned by Kasparov. But his solution I like still: if you run out of ammo, must clone shooters and clones have full ammo, if they run out of ammo let kill the clones (sacrifice them) and then clone the original shooter and new clone will have again full ammo. Its may a bug, but works pretty well, even
in practical games. There is force field and clone is a good tactic.
Thanks for your nice words. Thought that nobody believes this would work really!
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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iwannarefresh
Hired Hero
newbie
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posted May 29, 2007 02:50 PM |
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Quote:
The best solution in an acceptable number of turns?
Take any heroe with speciality archery, give him about 10 or 20 sharpshooters, an ammocart, earth magic, FIRE magic, and leadership.
First round you cast slow, next round you cast BERZERK!!!
So you can see, that the unicorns, because of not being able to reach another unit in one turn to fullfill his berzerk, will stay on their hex and wait for....christmas!
So you can shoot 99 rounds and if you need more, BERZERK again.
So i think there are not much spellpoints needed and not much hitpoints!
Hi Angelito!
This solution is very very good if it works. It's very inspire me that make me to make a test to simulate your answer.
But, sadly, it didnt work!
The bersecked unicorns still run forward the sharpshooters, even if they cant hit the sharps in 1 turn.
I keep retried in all different difficult: from 70% to 200%, but it still didnt work.
Is there something that im wrong with? Or it's different version? Mine is SoD 3.2
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