|
| Thread: Pollo2032's Magic hero guide. | |
|
Pollo2002
Famous Hero
|
posted September 14, 2003 11:09 PM |
bonus applied. |
|
Pollo2032's Magic hero guide.
i read time along the lord lazy guide.. i followed, at time i didn't play to much online but most of the considered good players said, that magic heroes were under might heroes. Well so i follow them, but after a lot of time playing, i can judge by myself my points.
this is a guide on how use magic heroes, and not for fun, to win.
Si there it is.
1. introduction
Magic heroes are someway understimated. True is that magic heroes are someway inferior in several ways than might heroes.
1. They are SPELL dependant, with a might hero you will always get the units you want or need, With magic hero, you have to pray to the needed spells.
2. They can't fight as much as might heroes, true is that they can focus power on a hard battle. But they they run out of mana and are a lot weaker than might heroes, so the fact is that magic heroes are INFERIOR than might heroes for cleaning.
3. They have problems to get logistics, and that is too important on some maps, taking into accoutn that logistics is the second best skill in the game, and no hero want to lack of it on the right sized map.
4. They start with one less skill point, on some maps this isn't a problem but it would be better if druids start with 2 speel power, to spells actually do something. Overcome that 1 spell power on first week is some kind of problem , but more important than the skill is starting with wisdom, wisdom is not the skill you want early one. While might heroes have more usefull skills like offense, archery, armorer, or even leadership, Magic heroes have wisdom, and in most cases they have skills like sorcery that early on are usless
5. There are a lot of artifacts that annul spells, like pendant of negativity, Red orb, and reecanter's cloack.
And a lot of artifacts to resist magic ,as well as a secondary skill.
So with all this, i can say might heroes are better? yes they are in general. So when will i use a magic hero? . Magic heroes in the right map, settings and rules are more than ok. and those are EXTRAVAGANT rules in fact 80% of my games are played under circumstances where Magic heroes are a good option. And in fact those circmunstances are very good for other points.
2. Circumstances Magic hero should be considered an option.
I will tell first the points to take into account on both random and made maps, and then talk about each one in particular.
BOTH
a. Diff: Diff is very important, 80 and 100% forget to play a magic heroes, you can get a level 7th creature on week one, in the worst case on week two. Magic heroes can't deal with so powerfull creatures. i could say that 200% favors magic heroes, but not, that isn't true. Since the best heroes for 200% are those who brings with units, like Ivor, shakty, etc, those heroes are all might heroes. So you have to hope for a magic hero early one. But so early you can't afford an expensive mague guild on day 1 or 2 neither have the resource to level up a guild fast enough. 130% and 160% are the two preferable diff, specially 130 if playing dungeon or tower.
b: Richness: Magic heroes, want poor maps. More resources, more units, MAgic heroes don't want units on the battlefield. So if the scenario allows for 7th level creature on week 2 on 130% don't play a magic hero.
C: towns: Magic heroes like towns, more towns the better. Why? it doesn't go vs the idea of a poor map? No ,the think magic heroes don't want are resources explosion, see, collect 20000 Gold on the map killing things, but the gold that town gives you is different, you have to invert and the gold isn't that much, while towns, gives magic heroes better odds to get spells and more importnat, places to rest and charge mana.
D: Rules: this is important. Red orb, reecanters cloack, pendant of negativity Kills magic heroes. no 4th/5th level spells scrolls and worst not schollar nor use 4th spell heroes, is out of the question. So if the map allows thos artifacts, and don't allow those heroes neither those scrolls. take crag hack  if armaggedon is banned is ok, you don't need that spell. Even having it can be too much :S
E: Guards: More and powerful guards... BAD for magic heroes, Magic heroes prefer less battles but big ones. Magic heroes can spend all his power on one battle and win it easly. But after that, they lack of support, while might heroes provide a weaker but consistent support to units. So magic heroes don't want maps where everthing is HORDE.
D: Stats: Even magic heroes must have a big stats to stand vs high level units. Magic heroes get less advantage over might heroes as stats grow up. ON maps that stats go to the sky, magic heroes aren't very good, why? well, because might heroes will get enough mana and spell power to cast powerfull spells, but magic heroes won't go as good with fighting skills.
well those are the points to take into account to watch if magic hero is a viable option. If some things are on favor and others don't, you have to evaluate if a magic hero is a good option or not. Evaluation of that is something that takes experience.
Now Maps to make reference and get the picture.
Made maps:
Well, if analyze we soon realize that maps like showdown, hourglass and giant war , Have a big word of NO MAGIC HEROES, That is eXACTLY the scenario a magic hero don't want to fase, Dragons everywhere, heroes ends like 30-35-25-22. huge guards, 5 fights per day, few towns. And neither speak of Desert war, Resurrection free, few anti-magic garrison, no implosion. The worst thing. Forget it. o those maps MAGIC HERORES AREN't REPEAT AREN't AN OPTION, Beltway, And one for all, Warlords, free for all, Seven lakes, or even divided loyalties (Divided loyalties is not very good for magic heroes but they are playable) I have some other unknown maps i play and even play some remixes of those maps. there are other good maps around where you can play magic heroes well, you have to evaluate if on that map magic heroes are an option.
Random maps:
WEll most (most not all) Midnight templates (sorry midnight  ) are the worst enemy of magic heroes. huge guards, Rich ,Very few towns, heroes end BIG and all. No, really mephala does well on those maps (i would say kyrre but most people ban them on those templates) and definitly is not the place where solymir wanna be. Now if you play the original RMG with LARGE size (medium better, but that would mean a lot of restarts for 1 week meet) Or some poor or fast templates, you can do well with magic heroes. it would even better to add cpu players to add towns, but most people don't want ai players.
3. Using magic heroes.
now we know where a magic can be usefull and where doesn't. Let's see how to use them. First magic heroes need one second magic heroe backup. Yes, it's very good to have one magic hero in the back to do some fights, so the main magic heroes don't spend mana so fast. Magic heroes should attack as fast as you can,depends on map, but if you can attack week 2 with lighting bolt, it would be very good. Take into account. if you are gonna fight enemy hero.
on battlefield 3 level 5 units: you must have magic arrow
¨ ¨ 4 Level 6 units: Lighting bolt- ice bolt
¨ ¨ 3 Level 7 units: Meteo shower, Chain lighting
¨ ¨ 5 upgraded level 7 units: Implosion
If you don't have such as spells you are in troubles in the fight, taking as obivius you have a nice ammount of spell power and knowledge.
But the idea is to attack fast, if you end facing a battle of all upgraded units and like 7 upgraded level 7 units....you will in disadvantage. even with implosion. he will probably have resistance skill and tactics, and some good spell from it's own, enogh to rip you appart.
4. Building up a Magic hero.
Well in order of good skills for a magic hero:
1. Logistics
2. Earth magic
3. Intelligence
4. Wisdom
5. Some other magic shpere depending on available spells
6. Armor
7. Archery (if two or more shooters)
Tactics and resistance, can be good to counter Might hero tactcs and resistance ca be good sometimes, finally you will note that sorcery is not on the list, tht is because...sorcery sucks. The only way sorcery does something is with a hero with sorcery specilaty, i don't get why offense gives you 30% more damage and sorcery only 15%.... with a level 10 sorcery speciality you have a 22,5% increment, that is a little more interesting.
Spell power
knowledge
Defense
Attack
you have to realize how important is defense, it keeps you more time in battle and that is very important.
5. Magic hero on battlefield
Magic heroes units are FOOD they don't fight, you will play defensivily not matter, what. You don't want contact between your units and the might heroe units. So you escape, don't hit to avoid retalition and cast slow to be fair away or whatever is neccesary. There are three reasons because you attack with your units. 1. Archers and not retalition units 2. Focus fire, if you are gonna take a retalition but then hit with 2 or more stacks it's ok. 3. you for some STRANGE reason can make your stacks kill instantly the enemy stack you do. (pretty obvius)
So you always get in the back and start casting damage spells like crazy. Even attacking a castle in siege, can be good, since you can even block the out. And a good strategy is to have a backup army. After a huge fight, maybe the might hero was very high damage, but you lose, a magic heroe can recharge mana, and with some units have a new fight. The power of a magic hero is on his mana, not his units.
6. what Magic hero pick?
1: Tower: Tower has only one option Solymir. Solymir isn't great on skills. But having a secure chain lighting, is enought to make him an obvius pick. The only time i pick another think than solymir is AINE. But if you pick aine, the idea is not make him main hero, She is one very good suport hero of a might hero or better a magic one, With schoolar, Gold specilaity, and being magic hero, she is a very good one support hero. But to be on topic Solymir is the option.
2. Rampart:
There are two options, elleshar and Alagar. The most common option is elleshar, is hard to overcome the 1 spellpower. But intelligence as start, and as specility, plus good defense, make him a very good magic hero.
Alagar is someway a little more complicated, Alagar...if you think you can force a 2nd week fight at most a 3rd week fith on a map that on that map will have as much unupgraded level 6 units and you can get like 5+ spellpower, alagar is very good,but the point is to force a 2nd week fight ,3rd as much, for that reason i don't like alagar, since he will force a lategame.
But alagar well used can be dangerous. since you don't need to buld a mage guild to get ice bolt.
3. Castle: Well Not matter what, i would pick a knight with castle,if i want a fast one sir mullich and valeska are both very good. if you want to play a magic hero anyway, you can use catlin.. She is good with intelligence and a good specility. (gold)
4. Conflux: most players ban conflux, and it's the anti magic hero race. (i hate to face magic elementals) But early one you can even abuse of the weeaknes of storm elemental weak to lighting, anyway. Their magic heroes are great, Grindan, Ciele, and Labetha, are all good options. Ciele is good for the same uses as ALAGAR, Grindan, is better if you want A cleaner, And labetha is the best in general standars for a magic hero map. +9 defense stoneskin, is something very usefull.
5. Fortress: I always ask myself, why this race tht has a guild level 3 (a problem to play magic heroes) have so good ones.?
Well Styg, is acceptable but that's it. Verdish, is a very good hero it's very hard to use...
Finally the very good one is Andra. is a better version of Elleshar.
6. Stronghold: Battle mages aren't exactly magic heroes. The only real acceptable is Terek. But having so good might heroes, seems sensless to me to play Terek.
7. Inferno: INferno has two VERY good options Ayden and Zydar. They get good combat skills to even be able to match Might heroes with upgraded level 7 units. Ayden is better than zydar early on. But zydar has the best power on the late, I personally like more Ayden, but Zydar must not be overlooked.
8. Dungeon: Poor dungeon a Lot of potential good magic heroes, but wit flaws 
Sephinroth, isn't bad, but isn't good.
Alamar, is more a secondary hero, for schollar resurrection, but that's it.
Jeddite, is not bad, but resurrection isn't exactly what a magic hero wants, and start with advanced wisdom, isn't better
Deemer is the first real option, having meto shower is very good. But having scout (lucky it's already advanced) is not good
Malekith. Is the only option left. But to me isn't good enought, it's good, that's all. i always have troubels deciding between Malekith, and deemer, take into account, that if are afraid of not getting good spells, not ever think on malekith.
9. Necropilis: A lot of average options
Some people says than is good, i never like it
Nagash could be used in same way as aine or catlin.
Now...
Aislinn, This is a deemer good version If i want a magic hero, there is my hero.
Sandro, if you think for some reason, that for some chance of good, you will get Meteo shower, chain lighting or implosion when needed, sandro is better than aislinn, sure...but, how you will know it?
Ahh well i finished.
So i'm open, to question critics, and more. the only thing i'm not open is deleting this post! mods before delete it move it to other place, i don't spend 2 hours writing for nothing!!
____________
|
|
zilonite
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 15, 2003 07:41 PM |
|
|
good job, pollo!
Pretty detailed analyses and overview over potentialities of magic heroes.
Minor disagreement might go only: 1) to desert war section - magic heroes can be really great on that map, if u manage to use them wisely; 2)to deemer v. aislinn... man, if there is any magic heroe, that is worth picking up, than its warlock - all magic heroe value usually goes down to spellpower and warlcoks rulz here
Also this is more theoretical overview and some practical combos might be welcomed (if there are any ).
One, simple, that i can offer relates to deemer - if u play with deemer, always try to leave space in your army for 2 or 3 single fodder units (e.g., 3 single trogs). Then marsh with them bravely ahead (keeping all 3 of them close) and try to invite AI attack on them. Afterwards u will get nice chance to do a good hit with meteo show to three AI units
____________
Elephants commonly have a bad eyesight. Yet with their bulk this is not a major problem for them.
|
|
Pollo2002
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 15, 2003 11:47 PM |
|
|
Pollo2032
Deemer vs Aislinn: Having scouting as skill hurts a little, but maybe you are correct the difference is not that big, since deemer has his good points.
Desert war: See. Might heroes have good chances of getting logistics, very important on that map, plus, there are a lot of anti-magic zones, plus, stats go high, so might heroes will get enought mana to cast whatever they want, and worst than that, they will get resurrection for sure, resurrection in the hand of might hero that have 200 mana and 15 spell power. Is a nightmare for a magic hero, more when they will fight with upgraded level 7 units, and magic heroes has no chances of getting implosion!
About combos: I'm not sure what you mean, But i can say two i think right now.
Solymir: is very important to get mages on week 1. If you do, and have any magic skill. you get a 2 mana magic arrow, that's beautiful.
Verdish: I play this magic hero a lot. if you know you will start with lizard dwelling. or pretty sure. You can do day 1 mague guild, day 2 wyverns. you can do prety good hit and runs with wyverns when fighting stacks. you will have a lot of fights, when usually suffer casualties, with no one.
____________
|
|
zilonite
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 16, 2003 10:05 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Desert war: See. Might heroes have good chances of getting logistics, very important on that map, plus, there are a lot of anti-magic zones, plus, stats go high, so might heroes will get enought mana to cast whatever they want, and worst than that, they will get resurrection for sure, resurrection in the hand of might hero that have 200 mana and 15 spell power. Is a nightmare for a magic hero, more when they will fight with upgraded level 7 units, and magic heroes has no chances of getting implosion!
Quote:
As for logistics, thats true. But the rest of description looks a bit more like showdown or hourglass and on those maps u are right by 100% - no chance for magic hero. But dw... There are just a few spots of cursed ground and no sure free resurrection (or at least i didn't notice it so far  )
However if u will be in zone, we can try one desert war match where i will take warlock, and u - any might hero
Quote:
Solymir: is very important to get mages on week 1. If you do, and have any magic skill. you get a 2 mana magic arrow, that's beautiful.
Quote:
yup, mages are top unit because of that special. With mages even Neela can play as a magic hero, and that really rocks.
Quote:
Verdish: I play this magic hero a lot. if you know you will start with lizard dwelling. or pretty sure. You can do day 1 mague guild, day 2 wyverns. you can do prety good hit and runs with wyverns when fighting stacks. you will have a lot of fights, when usually suffer casualties, with no one.
pretty interesting, i might try it out, because those wyverns are so damn fragile at the start of the game, even with Tazar... However Verdish might do only for games with week 2 or max week 3 battles, afterwards any beastmaster will be better.
____________
Elephants commonly have a bad eyesight. Yet with their bulk this is not a major problem for them.
|
|
haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 16, 2003 05:24 PM |
|
|
|
about time to write a guide on proper use of quote option, huh?
|
|
zilonite
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 17, 2003 11:20 AM |
|
|
Quote:
about time to write a guide on proper use of quote option, huh?
I can do it very good, see?
|
|
whome
Tavern Dweller
loving friend to honer
|
posted September 20, 2003 07:06 AM |
|
|
mi best favrite majik frind
true power of the majik is in the heroo who use the armadageton blayde relik and have the fast armi for the honerble hit and return. With great spell strength the enemi will bow to the mighty strength of your armi and heroo for the big win and much honer fun!!!!
____________
with great responsible come much power
|
|
Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
|
|
posted September 20, 2003 09:57 AM |
|
|
Can't say I agree wif all that is written, but red star surely deserved.
____________
People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.
|
|
Pollo2002
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 21, 2003 03:45 AM |
|
|
if you don't agree with something, it would be very good to me and the readers to at least say it.... I can take it in consideration and think it twice....
____________
|
|
Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
|
posted October 18, 2003 06:24 AM |
|
|
Solymr is a must for the tower. AlsoAstral in some cases is nice. Hypnotiseing your enemies week one is a plus.
____________
The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
|
|
wanderer
Known Hero
Mercenary on Azure's Kingdom
|
posted October 27, 2003 03:28 AM |
|
|
my 2 cents : magic heroes as mains get ass kicked on any map than small. wanna know why?
it's enough to have tactics on a might and youre spells cant do much cuz youre army is doomed.period
____________
veni vidi vici
|
|
Pollo2002
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 26, 2003 08:37 AM |
|
|
It's not probably you can get tactics that fast, if you readed my guide you should know what kind of maps you should play with magic hero, second, a magic hero can have tactics, too, Third, even you have tactics, magic heroes can win, but i read my guide again and maybe you will understand why
____________
|
| |
|
|
