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| Thread: Heroes Basic Concepts and Wishes |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Delfontes
Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
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posted December 11, 2003 06:40 PM |
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I'd like the return of town portal personally.
Make it a more difficult spell to attain so that scouts can't get it etc. Just make sure it is possible to get for any magic school, so it doesn't unbalance 1 type of castle.
That would solve it taking 3 weeks to get anywhere in an XL map (with an army) like on H4.
On maps you don't want people using that spell, simple... disable it.
Chaining was dumb, a pikeman shouldn't be able to walk the entire map simply because no movement was individually calculated.
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted December 11, 2003 06:57 PM |
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town portal
town portal once a week per player would not be a good solution, but a playable one imho. same for dimension door and fly - transportation is way too great advantage in homm. of all those spells, i liked fly the best.
just a different solution that would make town portal etc crappy and i am not against them.
as for town portal in particular, i would suggest to make it town portal nearest town only - not possible to choose the town. if occupied then fail like in homm2. dimension door was the hyper spell in homm2, not town portal.
water walk was ok as it was, but wasn't able to use it too often in homm3, mostly because of playing land-based maps, but also because of most shores were unwalkable.
but then again, making it crappy will slow down the game again. and end game is often boring like hell.
maybe we should discuss it in a separate thread.
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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killa_Bee
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
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posted December 12, 2003 06:10 AM |
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you are wrong
Quote:
Heroes4 unpopular because of inability to chain ? Nonsense.
"Chaining is silly. It's not even a tactic. There's nothing to learn about it's usage - it can be used when there's enough gold, that's all that needs to be known.
It doesn't even make sense - a turn is one day long, after all !So one creature stack should NEVER be able to travel so far in one day.
It's the same thing as strafe jumps in quake/halflife - an exploit. I think people like you playing Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory as medic KILL their patients... because kill + revive is sometimes faster than heal. Or kill themselves so they respawn elsewhere and travel faster than they're meant to.
Or replace enemies with hideous orange boxes so they can spot them ealier.
That's what I call sacrificing game spirit for efficiency.
"
Sir, you sound like a complete newbie. I played heroes 2 and I played heroes 3 for MULTIPLE YEARS. Your list of reasons of why people do not play heroes 4 is nonsense. Sure the bugs and the 5 minute wait between sending and recieving files was an issue, but I witnessed most of the debates about why people will not graduate from heroes 3 to heroes 4. THE MAIN REASON WAS BECAUSE THE IDIOTS DISABLED THE CHAINING TACTIC. It causes turns to be longer blah blah blah blah blah.
People do not play heroes 4 because of the inability to chain troops and artifacts from hero to hero. Most of you newbies are at a disadvantage because you do not know how. It takes practice and eventually becomes natural. If you witness a heroes 2 or heroes 3 game, you will realize that chaining is a necessity for competitive gameplay.
Do not knock on chaining heroes because it sounds ignorant and it proves you are a newbie to the game.
If heroes 5 disables the chaining of troops from hero to hero it will suck almost as much as heroes 4.
And Remember, Heroes 4 was by far the least played game in the entire heroes of might and magic series (factual not opinioned).
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted December 12, 2003 10:06 AM |
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pretty please let's move to e.g. http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=110&pagenumber=5 or some similar thread to discuss it.
no need to read all the thread if you are not interested in freeky game features, but imho the discussion of reasons for chaining and possible solutions might better belong there.
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what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted December 12, 2003 06:02 PM |
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Edited By: Djive on 12 Dec 2003
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Yes... Please put your posts about chaining to gerdash's suggested topic. Further argumentation around chainging will be removed from this topic.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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regnus_khan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
[ Peacekeeper of Equilibris ]
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posted December 13, 2003 04:08 PM |
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I forgot to mention:
Djive should be involved into creating Heroes 5. He thinks of some good ideas such as Grails and Reputation multiplier.
P.S. Djive into creation of Heroes 5!!!
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I
Famous Hero
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posted December 21, 2003 06:07 PM |
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I think that they should leave the spell evolution by skills. It really balances the factions. In h2 and 3 it brought me to bsession that any 3rd lvl magician that I attacked killed minimum 5 archers and run away. It really gives the magic a different meaning.
They could rebalance the whole thing about aquiring high level monsters. So there won't be a sitiuation when a Titan Is killed by a hundred of skelletons, when in RL it should squash them with his feet. I think high lvl creatures should be difficoult to acquire. A new rare resource would come in handy here...
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Yoghurt!
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted December 21, 2003 07:28 PM |
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If you want to make hit and run less viable, then you can simply remove the option of fleeing, and just keep surrendering. And surrendering would require that you have better Diplomacy then the opponent, or the opponent gets the chance to reject the offer. Town Gate in combat can also be kept as a means of fleeing, though this should then be a high level general spell. (level 4 or level 5.)
The low level damage dealing spells should probably be in a generic school available to everyone.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted December 22, 2003 07:42 PM |
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when a titan squashes skeletons with his feet, the other skeletons cut off tiny peces of the titan's feet and the question is: will all the skeletons be squashed by the titan before the titan has no feet?
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i wouldn't like surrendering ability to be based on diplomacy, the other option where the winning side gets to choose if they will let the loosing army go would be much better imho.
btw there was a thread somewhere where we discussed an option to leave a some creatures behind when you flee that would have to cover your escape for a few rounds (if they get killed before those rounds are over, then you couldn't flee). imho it might be possible to handle the fleeing problem with such a sacrifice stack.
so i guess it would be nice if the loosing side could offer a surrender first. if the winner declines, they could fight till death or try to flee by utilizing the sacrifice stack system.
what would stimulate the winner to let the loosing army go when the looser wants surrender? it's not very honorable for a noble to kill someone who has surrendered, you know.
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another problem is killing 100 zombies with 1 sprite, that could take a several hundred rounds, i guess, but should be possible. if there was adventure map travelling time associated with combat rounds, then if you use a sacrifice cover-up stack to flee, the rounds the stack survives could somehow correspond to your head start next round.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted December 22, 2003 08:00 PM |
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Quote:
i wouldn't like surrendering ability to be based on diplomacy, the other option where the winning side gets to choose if they will let the loosing army go would be much better imho.
Simply put. Many players would always reject any such offer potentially ruining a players perception of the game by doing so.
Quote:
btw there was a thread somewhere where we discussed an option to leave a some creatures behind when you flee that would have to cover your escape for a few rounds (if they get killed before those rounds are over, then you couldn't flee). imho it might be possible to handle the fleeing problem with such a sacrifice stack.
As it is now, you will lose your troops anyway if you flee. Only the hero(es) is kept. In other words, the entire army (or what's left of it is the sacrifice stack.)
The question is why fleeing should be handled as a "free" caravan or a town portal. The logical thing is that there is no fleeing to be had. Perhaps, as a pre-combat effect if the play has simultaneous turns then you could offer fleeing in the case where the attacked army has movement left for this day. I don't see the need to offer fleeing in-battle.
Quote:
what would stimulate the winner to let the loosing army go when the looser wants surrender? it's not very honorable for a noble to kill someone who has surrendered, you know.
Wouldn't this be highly dependent on who faces who?
Say Monks facing Vampires? Do you think any side would accept surrender, or even offer Surrender to begin with? Wouldn't both the Monks and the Vampires consider it the right and only thing to do to show no mercy?
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted December 22, 2003 09:01 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
i wouldn't like surrendering ability to be based on diplomacy, the other option where the winning side gets to choose if they will let the loosing army go would be much better imho.
Simply put. Many players would always reject any such offer potentially ruining a players perception of the game by doing so.
Quote:
Quote:
what would stimulate the winner to let the loosing army go when the looser wants surrender? it's not very honorable for a noble to kill someone who has surrendered, you know.
Wouldn't this be highly dependent on who faces who?
Say Monks facing Vampires? Do you think any side would accept surrender, or even offer Surrender to begin with? Wouldn't both the Monks and the Vampires consider it the right and only thing to do to show no mercy?
it was because of the 'many players would always reject any such offer' that i thought some stimulation to let the surrendering opponent go would be needed, not the monks vs vamps situation.
Quote:
Quote:
btw there was a thread somewhere where we discussed an option to leave a some creatures behind when you flee that would have to cover your escape for a few rounds (if they get killed before those rounds are over, then you couldn't flee). imho it might be possible to handle the fleeing problem with such a sacrifice stack.
As it is now, you will lose your troops anyway if you flee. Only the hero(es) is kept. In other words, the entire army (or what's left of it is the sacrifice stack.)
The question is why fleeing should be handled as a "free" caravan or a town portal. The logical thing is that there is no fleeing to be had. Perhaps, as a pre-combat effect if the play has simultaneous turns then you could offer fleeing in the case where the attacked army has movement left for this day. I don't see the need to offer fleeing in-battle.
i thought it's the hit-and-run strategy that was the problem. sometimes you flee when you have very few troops to loose, you know, that would not be enough cover up your escape for, say, 3 rounds.
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b0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted December 30, 2003 12:24 PM |
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Quote:
Sir, you sound like a complete newbie. I played heroes 2 and I played heroes 3 for MULTIPLE YEARS.
Same here, except I played Heroes1, too, and my gaming experience starts with Atari65XE.
You do not impress me at all. And it should be noted that I prefer Multiplayer homm games, so I know what I am talking about.
Quote:
THE MAIN REASON WAS BECAUSE THE IDIOTS DISABLED THE CHAINING TACTIC. It causes turns to be longer blah blah blah blah blah.
Don't call people newbie or idiot just because they're smarter than you and you envy them.
Turns are longer mainly because town income is much decreased - and buildings are significantly more expensive. In Heroes3 you can build most important builings in 2 weeks, starting from day0. If you can't realise this, I'm sorry for you. Also Logistics is no longer available, and developing Pathfinding to master level takes a lot of time.That's why the game (realise difference between game and turns)
Oh and by the way, how does it make turns longer ? Instead of wasting time on chaining abuse you stare at your hero instead of pressing "next turn" button ?
Quote:
People do not play heroes 4 because of the inability to chain troops and artifacts from hero to hero.
That's a heavy statement, too bad without any reasoning. Players new to homm usually have no idea that there even was such a concept called "chaining". Therefore lack of chaining doesn't affect them at all.
If h4 was inpopular just because some old players were inable to adapt and develop new gaming methods, you'd STILL see quite a lot new players (with no knowledge of previous homm games).And behold:
Heroes4 failed to attract new players
You'd see fresh blood if despite lack of chaining. Heroes4 was a great game. You don't. That proves that there were more serious reasons.
Quote:
Most of you newbies are at a disadvantage because you do not know how. It takes practice and eventually becomes natural. If you witness a heroes 2 or heroes 3 game, you will realize that chaining is a necessity for competitive gameplay.
Stay away from me you snow, and taste your own medicine.
To use chaining, you hire heroes and place them 1 day from each other. That's all. I used to chain in Heroes1, until I realised just how stupid it is. My friends I play homm with (I mean hardcore players) agree that it's simply against the spirit of the game.
It also takes a lot of skill to hack savegames, and if someone hacks multiplayer savegame in his favor you have to do it, too if you are to win.It just a matter what your priorities are. I heard such argumentation "it takes skill and you simply can't" in many multiplayer games, and I'm not less disgusted than usual.I can chain, but I chose to not - this sentence breaks your whole "argumentation".
To be 100% competive, I suggest you to play Heroes4 multi with Necropolis all the time, and always gp for GM necromancy and Mansion at day 2.
[quote[
Do not knock on chaining heroes because it sounds ignorant and it proves you are a newbie to the game.
I fail to understand why. Perhaps because of lack of reasoning.
Quote:
And Remember, Heroes 4 was by far the least played game in the entire heroes of might and magic series (factual not opinioned).
It's not the point.
I look forward for your repplies, because I can't wait to smash your reasoning and prove you with facts, that you are wrong.
Even if your posts look like taken straight from battle.net forums.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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b0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted December 30, 2003 12:30 PM |
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted January 02, 2004 02:15 AM |
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btw anyone has the actual numbers of how much homm4 sold and how much other homms sold or how much homm4 was expected to sell? i don't doubt that an enormous amount of work was put into the game, did it pay off?
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and some comment on homm4 from the gameplay point of view.
although imho removal of chaining was only good for the game (i hope this will be applied not only to troops but also to artifacts in the future), the caravans that were supposed to help were a pain because of the roads being blocked all the time.
whatever, if i (probably a newbie in homm4 until i die) was to list some gameplay reasons that might have made people not to play homm4, they would be:
heroes imho unreasonably vulnerable in combat. line of sight rules difficult to take advantage of (and the problem that when i wanted to move a creature just a little, it imho moved less than i ordered to). the combination of those two problems tempts to reload the savegame after a stupid problem in combat which is annoying imho (they have made loading the savegame comfortable, but that's imho not the solution to the problem. what if i like to play it so that if i lost a battle, then that's it?). a clear combat grid in previous homms was nice.
difficult to keep track of rounds and when some creature will move, i guesws it's because of the initiative and morale system or whatever.
poor (not very challenging) ai, no idea if the problem is in the adventure map ai or somewhere else, havn't played that much.
campaigns (never played all of them) were imho about waiting for enough troops for defeating army x, rather than thinking about which way to go on the adventure map. i do not agree that the campaigns were absolutely linear: in the last scenario of the undead campaign i didn't want the hero to be bound by a promise of giving 4 towns for eternity to a possibly not very trustworthy demon, so i didn't make an alliance and it was ok (well, not absolutely linear, but almost linear, lol).
annoying demons in the imho calm (peaceful) death town, and the hell hounds in the imho easiest building path (just a personal problem, if there are no other people who like pure undead more).
imho too highly detailed adventure map graphics, especially the trees, making the adventure map difficult to look at (just from the usability point of view).
while fog of war brings about the necessity to leave some creatures watching over the terrain in some spots, they are in the same list as the heroes you want move. so you have to scroll every turn to find your hero.
and finally, the necessity to restart my computer often.
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actually, while writing this, it occured to me that if things like mines were treated as miner settlements (villages), the scouting radius could perhaps be larger and they might have their own military that could keep the roads clean.
or there could be a special portion of military that would automatically want to go to battle if it discovers (without palyer intervention) that a road got blocked.
or perhaps even better, less changing to the caravan system, and keeping the not completely controlled wilderness idea: when you create a caravan, you are given a list of groups of creatures that block the way, and if you choose to send the caravan on it's way, it has to fight the creatures when it reaches them. also, a caravan might be visible on the map this way.
ok, this is getting out of hand, starting to look like an ida for a new thread.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted January 02, 2004 08:06 PM |
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Edited By: Svarog on 2 Jan 2004
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all the possible myth creatures
The following proposal about the new towns and creatures for homm5 is constructed after much research and consideration. i tried to include every mythological creature i’ve heard of and i think is suitable for heroes (and most are). Creatures that look alike are replaced with one creature which is more popular. there are 11 towns, each with 11 critters (2 towns with 12). They are arranged according to their level, but not very precisely. i’m open for comments. ok, here we go:
Castle/Human
Peasant <> Pikeman <> Archer <> Ballista <> Hawkman <> Swordsman <> Griffin <> Monk <> Mounted Knight <> Pegasus <> Angel
Tower/Order/Wizard
Gremlin <> Invisible Man <> Stone Golem <> Mage <> Gargoyle <> Energy Elemental <> Magic Elemental <> Colossus <> Naga <> Valkirie <> Titan
Desert/Nomad/Sun (theme from egyptian and islamic mythology)
Rogue <> Flying Carpet <> Mummy <> Bedouin <> Giant Scorpion <> Gigant (three-headed man) <> Sphinx <> Genie <> Argus (giant with 100 eyes, all over his body, resembling a monk) <> Thunderbird (or Roc) <> Phoenix
Rampart/Elf/Light Nature
Halfling <> Dwarf <> Amazon Warrior <> Fairy (or Sprite) <> Brownie <> Druid <> Elf <> Nymph <> Dryad (a tree nymph, opposite to the Dendroid) <> Unicorn <> Green Dragon
Shadow/Dark Elf/Dark Nature/Night
Bandit <> Leprechaun <> Kobold (like LOTR’s Gollum) <> Satyr <> Witch <> Ratman (or DarkElf) <> Troll <> Werewolf <> Wolf Raider <> Dendroid <> Will-O-Wisp
Fortress/Swamp/Beasts
Gnoll <> Blob (or Slime) <> Lizardman <> Serpentman <> Basilisk <> Python (enormous mythical snake) <> Gorgon <> Dinosaur (a giant Reptile, u can call it) <> Beast (like Yeti, or Behemoth but more human-like) <> Chymera <> Wyvern <> Hydra (1 extra for this town)
Necropolis/Undead
Skeleton <> Zombie <> Ghost <> Fleshmade Abomination (like Frankenstein) <> Wraith <> Shadow <> Vampire <> Lich <> Death Knight <> Bone Dragon <> Grim Reaper
Dungeon/Chaos/Warlord
Troglodyte <> Earth Elemental <> Magma Elemental <> Evil Eyes <> Fire Sorcerer <> Minotaur <> Medusa <> Earth Worm (goes underground) <> Spiderwoman (half-woman, half-spider) <> Gargantuan (not like in homm4, but with huge tusks and claws) <> Black Dragon
Inferno/Demons
Imp <> Gog <> Demon <> Flying Demon <> Fire Elemental <> Cerberus <> Pit Lord <> Efreet <> Manticore <> Brimo (fiery greek monster, with 3 heads and a sword of fire) <> Devil
Stronghold/Barbarian
Barbarian (like Berserker) <> Goblin <> Centaur <> Harpy <> Two-headed man <> Orc <> Wild Boar <> Ogre <> Giant <> Cyclops <> Behemoth
Water/Mermen
Pirate <> Mermaid <> Hippocampus (dolphin-horse) <> Water Elemental <> Ice Elemental <> Siren (bird-woman) <> Air Elemental <> Storm Elemental <> Oceanid (like homm3’s water elem, but with legs) <> Scylla <> Leviathan (monster from the deep, from biblical myth) <> Kraken (extra creature)
I know elementals are in different towns, but i couldn’t find a better way to sort everybody in 11 towns with roughly equal number. Although there may be more towns and creat-s than it is recommendable for heroes5, as i said, this is just a list for some, shall we say, “Heroes of Might and Magic – Total” version. Anyway.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted January 04, 2004 11:05 AM |
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i wish for a small quick combat feature where you can see the outcome of a quick combat battle before you choose if you want quick combat or not.
i.e. if there are combat losses, i choose either to accept them or to try to do better myself.
maybe this might then be usable if the enemy isn't so much weaker that they certainly want to flee.
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted January 07, 2004 09:14 PM |
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I posted this somewhere else before
If only the images were like this, and not cartoony:
Now creatures like this would be nice:
 angels
 dragons
  devils
 dwarves
 elves
 necromancers
 ghosts
 ceberus
 zombie
 vampire
 Sandro
 Knight Town Hero
 Paladin
 Archer
 Lord Hero
 Pirate
 Troll
 Bandit
 Peasant
 Water Dragon
 Battle Dwarf
 Wizard Hero
 Priest Hero
 Stone Giant
 Behemoth (?)
 Atlas Hero
 Bezerker
  Dwarven Heroes
 Ash or Octavia or Nymus Hero
 Demonic Hero
 Medusa
 Hydra
 Solymr Hero
 Elleshar Hero
 Orc Chief
 Orc Warrior
 Josephine Hero
 Astral Hero
 Gem Hero
 Frost Giant
 White Dragon
This is just the tip of the iceberg... want to see more??
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted January 07, 2004 10:28 PM |
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I agree with you fully and would love to see more, hehe 
However I doubt the game devs would ever dare use such pictures, considering how christian the USA is and how many mothers out there would be scared to death to let their kids play something like that..
But.. Id like to see it, and play it.. I guess we can always hope Besides, the moms dont like Eminem and hes really successful. Maybe pics like that would help make heroes 5 "the forbidden fruit" that everyone wants.
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Draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 08, 2004 04:22 AM |
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well as far as i know disciples did pretty good in the states didnt it? thats where those pics came from... so with that said it should be ok
personnaly i liked the battles from disciples more then heroes from time to time because they were much simpler.. took less planning (as you dont have to possition yourself) and less wrong moves were done by clicking a hex away from where you wanted to.
if you werre to have pics like that you would need to make the heroes battlefield go away. or you could have that as a avatar to the units and make them itty bitty units.
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted January 08, 2004 04:28 AM |
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In my opinion, disciples had the most brilliant group of artists working for them. Even the 3d models of the creatures were breathtaking. The Backgrounds, castles, so on and so forth. But personally, the gameplay is nothing like heroes. So homm gameplay, with disciples style graphics and I'll be oozing machismo.
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