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| Thread: Martyr Spell a BUG?... Or yet another failed spell description? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 23, 2003 07:11 PM |
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Martyr Spell a BUG?... Or yet another failed spell description?
Just found out the hard way that Matyr spell must be bugged. Martyr says that you can protect a unit while sending all damage to anyone you choose.
So I protect my 30 angels and send all damage to my Paladin with GM Magic resistance. Targan casts disinegrate and poof my Paladin who is IMMUNE to magic dies.
When I cast martyr my Paladin didnt become a clone of Angels, they simply agreed to take the accept damages that were done to Angels, but it shouldnt erase the Paladins GM Magic Immunity.
If this is NOT a bug, then I guess the description of how martyr works is drastically wrong and misleading yet again. Thanks 3DO.
Thoughts?
Jinxer
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted December 23, 2003 08:21 PM |
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I think this works as it should. You transfer damage between angle stack and paladin, not magical resistance.
And if you really want your paladin to be immune to magic then you shouldn't be able to cast martyr on paladin to begin with.
It's totally unreasonable that the damage would simply lost, considering the level and cost of the Martyr spell. It's already very powerful.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 23, 2003 11:08 PM |
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Noone said the damage should be lost. Any and ALL melee or archery damages should come thru... But if the unit that is doing the protecting is IMMUNE to magic, then so be it. Description doesnt say that the Paladin now becomes the same as the Angels so there fore has only the protections as the angel etc.
Jinxer
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Zutus_evil_p...
Hired Hero
Flaming bird
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posted December 23, 2003 11:46 PM |
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martyr transfers the damage from the stack you protect to the other. So if the angels get 1000 damage from desintegrate, 1000 damage is transferred to the hero, since the desintegrate wasn't cast on the hero.
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Meet you at TeaNY's...
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 24, 2003 12:13 AM |
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I know thats HOW it happens, but it shouldnt is my point lol. My Paladin had 100% Magic immunity. Last time I checked Disinegrate was magic 
Jinxer
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted December 24, 2003 12:18 AM |
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100 % Magic Resistance, not Immunity. Immunity and Resistance are different things.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 24, 2003 12:37 AM |
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Hiya Lichy! 
Yes they are technically different however either way you slice it, magic will NOT affect either. If your 100% immune or 100% resistant, the possibility of being affected by magic is same. 0% chance remaining
But thanks for that tid bit hehe.
Jinxer
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2003 01:19 AM |
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no , 100% magic resistance is same as immunity ... no difference
at first when i heard what you said jinxer i thought that you're right, but now i think about it, i'm not sure.. both sides of argument make sense.. it's all about your intepretation of what the spell should do.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 24, 2003 01:51 AM |
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My interpretation of what the spell should do is based on what the description of the spell says.
Think of it this way. Put a steel armour on and shoot a gun at it. The bullet bounces off and hits another target. So the other target takes the damage that was shot at the other. That is how Martyr is described to work.
Now continue my analogy....Camel has martyr protect cast on him, a bullet is shot at Camel, instead is sent to Jinxer. Poof Jinxer dead. Now lets assume Jinxer was wearing steel armour. The bullet would bounce off him and not hurt him. So my point is, the bullet still was sent to Jinxer, but Jinxer was immune to bullet so shouldnt affect him.
Jinxer
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted December 24, 2003 02:06 AM |
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Quote:
no , 100% magic resistance is same as immunity ... no difference
The difference is, that certain skills and artifacts can break MR, notice, that Fire Shield is working on MR heroes and creatures, but on Magic Immune.
Edit: You cannot bless, heal magic immune units also, but MR units you can.
So in my opinion they are different.
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Arangar
Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
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posted December 24, 2003 05:21 AM |
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But here is the REAL question:
Did the DISINTEGRATE effect take place on your pally??
Cause if so, then it truly is a bug
If only damage was transferred... then all is good, keep up the bashing!
Arangar
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Arangar
Norwegian viking
ranger of the north
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EvilLoynis
Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
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posted December 24, 2003 05:39 AM |
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It only transfers the damage not the source of the damage.
Too use your analogy the bullet still hits the original target but the pain, and eventual death from said wound, is felt by the one protecting.
It says it transfers the damage not the atk.
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"I am both selfish and instictive. I value nature and the world around me as means to an end as well as an end in itself; at best I ... too long to display...
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laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted December 24, 2003 09:04 AM |
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Quote:
Did the DISINTEGRATE effect take place on your pally??
Cause if so, then it truly is a bug
If only damage was transferred... then all is good, keep up the bashing!
Arangar
Arangar's right. If disintegrate was cast on the angels, and only the damage transferred, the hero would take the 1000 points (or whatever) of damage and die but ... an immortality potion on the hero should immediately activate, and the hero ought to come back to life. If the hero was "disintegrated" and no immortality potion took effect, then I'd feel robbed too. 100% magic resistance ought to overcome the "cancellation" effect of the disintegrate spell.
So, Jinx, did the hero come back or not? If not, that's a painful learning experience and, I must agree, yet another poorly-documented spell.
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted December 24, 2003 11:53 AM |
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the main question is why you should cast the spell in such a way to have headaches right after and fall into the deepest enigma.
you must be pretty eccentric to find such a solution or maybe you are one of that self-destructive kind, a kamikaze ( instead of protecting the ONE hero, you carry about 30 angels (what would be the difference between 30 or, lets say, 27-28,after taking damage , comparing to the loss of the most important hero from group ), angels which ,i figure, have less defense than your paladin, so, i think, strategically, theoretically, the spell was wrong directed, in a sort of unnatural way).
good thing imagination works, but, remember, few dreams are also nightmares
i believe you wanted to be reversed , but cause of rush you casted wrong. you RUSHER ! 
have a nice day
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 24, 2003 02:49 PM |
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Wrong again Teacher. You are now becoming the Student
I sent my angels into a pile of 5 level 25 heroes and picked my paladin to send damage to cause he has GM magic resistance. And since I had 2 Paladins and both had divine intervention and mass healing spells etc, I knew that any melee or archery attacks on my angels that were sent to my Paladin would not be enough to kill himk before I was able to heal him back to full health...SO infact it was INGENIOUS. Teacher just mad he didnt think of it.
However, to answer Arangars and Laelths questions, yes all the melee and archery damage was going thru just fine, however, it also let magic damage be cast on a Hero that was 100% resistant and then also inturn did disinegrate my hero. My hero disappeared from field.
Bottom line 100% Magic resistance should mean that the 1000 points of magic damage from disinegrate shouldnt have been felt. Only melee and archery attacks shoulda been permitted.
Jinxer
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted December 24, 2003 04:50 PM |
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Jinxer, you just get the protection from the primary target.
If the Angels had been protected from Magic, then damage would have been reduced. Just as damage from say missile fire would have been reduced by a Blur spell cast on the Angels. Having protection working on both primary and secondary target is a REALLY bad idea.
I hope you agree that if you cast Blur or perhaps Death Magic on your Hero then it will not reduce the damage done by a Venom Spawn on the Angels.
Also since only damage is transferred I'd expect the Angles to be poisoned by the attack. (Not sure if it works that way.)
If you want to protect your Angels then you cast the spell which gives extra lives to the Angels. (That spell would surely give the Angels more lives than the Heroes can regenerate.)
Martyr is not intended to effectively transfer resistance and immunities between stacks. Therefore it should not work that way.
The link Martyr creatwes would either have to be seen as magical or non-magical. It should not be seen as physical link when it transfer physical damage, ranged when link it transfers ranged damage, and magical when it transfer magical damage.
You might then ask what result you'd get if giving both Angels and Hero Death Ward, and subject Angels to a death attack? Should damage first be decreased by Angels Ward, then Hero's Ward, then possibly Hero resistance? Way way too powerful for a level 2 spell.
The angels do not become 100% magic resistent because you cast Martyr on them. Thus damage should go through.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2003 06:22 PM |
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Quote:
If you want to protect your Angels then you cast the spell which gives extra lives to the Angels. (That spell would surely give the Angels more lives than the Heroes can regenerate.)
never say "you should've cast xyz spell!" .. you can't ever assume that a player has a certain spell.
but yes i agree, martyr is a cool spell. always been one of my favorites early on with life if you get heavenly shield and martyr then you can beat really hard neutrals without losses.
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted December 24, 2003 06:44 PM |
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Quote:
then you can beat really hard neutrals without losses
at least you re humble enough not to use 1st person
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted December 25, 2003 02:45 AM |
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Well my original question was...
Is Martyr bugged or did 3DO just screw the decription up?
And I guess by the concencus, that the description is just drastically wrong!
Jinxer
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted December 25, 2003 05:47 AM |
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doh
hasnt the concensus been saying that the description is right?
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