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| Thread: Attack/Defence rating |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Spudami
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 09, 2004 10:27 AM |
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Attack/Defence rating
I have played HOMM2 for a long time, a friend gave me his "3" disc I was just wondering if the attack/Defence rating worked the same In "3" as in "2"?
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HEY HEY HEY! wait a tick...so what your saying is...soccer...my head hurts...
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Basilisk
Tavern Dweller
from the Basilisk Pit
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posted March 09, 2004 10:30 AM |
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Well i'm not sure because i've only ever played HOMM3, but i'm sure somebody here can help you out.
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted March 09, 2004 10:37 AM |
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If you mean that the damage inflicted still follows the same equation then yes
If you mean that the creatures have kept their atack/defence stats, then no, the creatures have changed.
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Spudami
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 09, 2004 10:40 AM |
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Yes i ment the equation, Thanks!
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HEY HEY HEY! wait a tick...so what your saying is...soccer...my head hurts...
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Zsa
Famous Hero
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posted March 12, 2004 12:58 AM |
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?
Wut was the equation? :\
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KingofMinota...
Known Hero
Ruling the minotaurs below
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posted March 12, 2004 06:16 PM |
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I think it is each attack of the attacker above the defense of the defender adds 5% extra damage. Also each defense of the defender above the attack of the attacker reduces damage by 5%.
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Be who you will be who you are but i'm the King of the Minotaur.
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted March 13, 2004 06:04 AM |
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Hmmmm I don't know what happend. Equation and Question look like.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted March 13, 2004 12:21 PM |
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Quote:
I think it is each attack of the attacker above the defense of the defender adds 5% extra damage. Also each defense of the defender above the attack of the attacker reduces damage by 5%.
You are wrong:
attack > defense = +5%
attack < defense = -2%
Maximum of additional damage = 400%
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 13, 2004 03:21 PM |
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Quote:
You are wrong:
attack > defense = +5%
attack < defense = -2%
Maximum of additional damage = 400%
Xarfax, wasn´t there a maximum of damage reducing as well?
Couldn´t remember anymore, but what will happen, if attack skill is 10 and defense skill is 60 (50*2%=100%)?
Was ist like max. 80% or something like that?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Dragon_Maste...
Dragons RULE
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posted March 13, 2004 06:41 PM |
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More in HoMM3
There are much bigger battle area in homm3 and the attack/defence power is alomst doubled
Black Dragon 1 in homm2 15 attack 15 def
Archangel 1 in homm3 without expansion 30 attack 30 def.
If you osnow in expansion there are azure dragon 50 attack 50 def 75-80 damage (AWSOME)!
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Ohh, you've got a necro! I'm reaally petryfied! I have to slay you with my unbreakable, immortal army of DUNGEON, MO0OHAHAHAHA!!!
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Wub
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted March 13, 2004 06:54 PM |
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The problem with the damage calculation in Heroes 3 is that the manual gives false information. Attack skill is compared with defense skill and that determines the damage modifier. However, for every point that the defense skill is higher than the attack skill, damage is reduced with 2.5%, while the manual says it is 2%. If the attack skill is higher than the defense skill, damage is increased with 5% as Xarfax already mentioned.
There is indeed a maximum of damage reduction as well, as angelito suggested. If the defense skill is 28 or more points higher than the attack skill, damage reduction will be no more than 30% (as 28*2.5=70). Also, minimum amount of damage that an attack does is 1.
To come back to Spudami's original question, in heroes 3 the damage calculation is not fundamentally different from that in heroes 2. However, in heroes 2 for every point that the attack skill was higher than the defense skill, a bonus of 10% damage was added. For every point that defense skill was higher than attack skill, damage reduction was 5%. So if in heroes 2 the attacker has 3 attack and the defender 8, the amount of damage is reduced to 75% of the base damage. I think it makes sense now why primary skill boosters were generally much less common in h2 than in h3.
I hope this comes in handy. I myself at least find this information very useful for calculating retaliation damage accurately.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 13, 2004 07:43 PM |
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Yeah....Wub is back in town..
Thx for the info, couldn´t remember it anymore...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Dragon_Maste...
Dragons RULE
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posted March 16, 2004 08:43 PM |
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to wub
ok... where did you find this?
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Ohh, you've got a necro! I'm reaally petryfied! I have to slay you with my unbreakable, immortal army of DUNGEON, MO0OHAHAHAHA!!!
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kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted March 17, 2004 12:44 AM |
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Wub knows all.
There a (just) a few guys u have to take seriously here and Wub is 1 of them.
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted March 17, 2004 07:00 PM |
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I already knew this equasion (apart from the error in the manual), but i want to ask you, more experienced players: Don't those numbers in the equasion mean that attack is better than defence? It's 5% vs 2.5%. This implies that when offered, we should go for the attack more often. What do you think?
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 17, 2004 10:14 PM |
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About the maximum reduction of damage, i had an interesting situation yesterday.
I played with fortress, Tazar, Level 28, defence skill 56.
I attacked a castle town with no defending hero in it.
First round, Archangels´ turn.
They flew towards my ammocart and attacked it.
They made 37 damage!!
Normaly, AA´s make 50 damage. So 4 AA´s make 200 damage.
AA`s had an attack skill of 31 (30 + 1..native ground/ castle).
My ammocart had a defence skill of 61 (5 own + 56)
So the difference is 30.
Tazar is expert amorer and Lev 28, that makes damage reduction of 36% (15% + 15%*(28*0,5%)).
If the AA´s do 37 instead of 200 damage, they have had a reduction of 81,5%.
Defence redcution coz of A/D diffence was 75% (30*2,5%)
and armorer speciality was 36%
How could that math work?
Simply like this:
The reduction coz of A/D difference is 2% (and not 2,5!!)
And the armorer speciality is not summoned!!
Look:
A/D diff = 30 ----> 30*2% = 60%
Armorer speciality = 36% -------> 36% of 60% = 21,6%
60% + 21,6% = 81,6%
200 (normal damage of 4 AA´s) * 81,6% = 163,2
----> reduction is 163,2 ----> 200 - 163,2 = 36,8
And that is exact the damage the AA´s did on the ammocart!!
What do you think about that Wub?
Have i made a mistake in my math here?
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Wub
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted March 18, 2004 05:49 PM |
bonus applied. |
Edited By: Wub on 18 Mar 2004
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Quote:
to wub
ok... where did you find this?
Sometimes you need to know if there's a chance to lose any creatures if you place a first strike on an enemy creature stack with one of your stacks. Soon I found out that the damage formula in the manual did not predict that retaliation damage well. Also, when I put combat statistics on during battle, it appeared that I arrived at different damage values than the actual damage when I used the formula with 2%. When I tested the damage calculation in a testmap some time ago, I found out that damage reduction is indeed 2.5% per point.
By the way, Dragon Master, you mentioned that the attack and defense skills are doubled in heroes 3 compared with heroes 2. That should also make sense now. If the designers wanted to keep the power gap between high and low level creatures similar, the different damage calculation system made it necessary to double the creature stats (as the effect of every statpoint was halved).
Quote:
I already knew this equasion (apart from the error in the manual), but i want to ask you, more experienced players: Don't those numbers in the equasion mean that attack is better than defence? It's 5% vs 2.5%. This implies that when offered, we should go for the attack more often. What do you think?
I'm not at all an experienced player, but I think I can answer your question to some extent, Svarog. First, it is not really true that because 5% > 2.5%, attack is better than defense. A damage reduction of 100%, for example, is infinitely better than a damage increase of 100%, because the former means that your troops are completely invincible, while the latter means that your troops do 'only' double damage. In fact, a damage reduction of 50% (damage is halved) is more or less equal to a damage increase of 100% (damage is doubled). And a damage reduction of 20% (=damage/1.25) is more or less equal to a damage increase of 25% (=damage*1.25).
There are a lot of other considerations than purely mathematical ones too, though. Some players have argued, for example, that when you are opposing a hero with big spells (implosion, resurrection, chainlightning), it is better that your troops do increased damage than that they reduce hostile damage. After all, since the enemy hero can cast a devastating spell every round, you want the battle to last as few rounds as possible and you need attack more than defense for that. Also, you'd probably rather have mnay attack points than defense points on, for example, your grand elves or ballista.
On the other hand, some players have argued that there are situations in which you typically want defense. For example, the utopia trick at lower difficulty levels (where you can take a dragon utopia with only a few hydra's and some fodder by exploiting an AI loophole) seems to work best with very high defense. Also, if you have a high level direct damage spellcaster yourself, you rather have a few defense than a few attack points.
Finally when a hero with attack 0 and defense 10 combats a hero that has 10 attack and 0 defense, attack and defense are perfectly in balance. Therefore this discussion about which primary skill is better is only valid for substantial attack/defense differences.
Quote:
What do you think about that Wub?
Have i made a mistake in my math here?
I must admit that you got me confused there for some time angelito  . I immediately run the test again in which I pitted two angels against an archangel, and indeed they did 75 damage, so damage reduction for every damage point is indeed 2.5%. So I looked at your calculation a bit more. I think you made an error in the limit of minimum damage. When the defense skill is more than 28 points higher than the attack skill, damage reduction is still not higher than 70%. In your example however you wrote that because A/D difference was 30, damage reduction was 75%, so you did not take into account the maximum damage reduction.
If you do the calculation again now, the archangels would do 0.64*0.3*200=38.4 damage. This is still different the archangel's actual damage. Your calculation that Tazar's armor specialty decreases damage with 36%, seems right to me, but I decided to test it anyway. I made a level 28 Tazar, who had some cavaliers with a defense skill of 31. I attacked some archangels who had an attack skill of 31. Due to his armor specialty, you would expect that 2 archangels would do 64 damage and that 20 archangels would do 640 damage. The actual damage was 63 and 639, though. Therefore it seems that the actual damage is one damage point lower than you would expect when something like armorer is involved. So in your example, where you would expect 38 damage, the actual damage is 37.
So I think the damage reduction of 2.5% for every defense point is correct, but you're right that there is still a slight inaccuracy (which is due to the fact that the computer sometimes rounds off damage in a strange way).
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kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted March 18, 2004 06:20 PM |
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Just a red star as a little hope we will have more posts like these again.
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted March 19, 2004 05:39 PM |
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Quote:
I'm not at all an experienced player, but I think I can answer your question to some extent, Svarog.
LOL!!!
Hey, kuma, how dare you give QPs for unexperienced players that offer such poor explanations for the game? 
Thanx anyway, Wub.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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iliecostin
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 07, 2012 10:47 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
You are wrong:
attack > defense = +5%
attack < defense = -2%
Maximum of additional damage = 400%
Xarfax, wasn´t there a maximum of damage reducing as well?
Couldn´t remember anymore, but what will happen, if attack skill is 10 and defense skill is 60 (50*2%=100%)?
Was ist like max. 80% or something like that?
Max damage reduction for defense is 30% (2%*15)
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