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| Thread: Town Balance: My Thoughts + Yours! | |
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KingCrimson
Hired Hero
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posted September 14, 2012 09:26 PM |
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Poll Question:
Town Balance: My Thoughts + Yours!
Okay, so now that I've discovered the wonderful new world of txt editing, I can start to rebalance my H3 game a bit. I love WoG but I want to have something that's as pure to the SoD experience as possible, with only a few changes in place to make the game much more balanced and, therefore, much more enjoyable.
I generally like to stay away from nerfs, as nerfs aren't fun. It's better to make crappy stuff better than to make OP stuff worse. The exception to this rule is Conflux. Obviously.
So, here's my general assessment of the towns, and what needs to be fixed. Give me your feedback!
Balanced towns:
Castle
Rampart
Tower
Stronghold
Dungeon
These are five towns that I consider reasonably well-balanced, in that I think if you were to have five players of equal skill play them on a map, no town would run away and no town would lag behind pathetically. Castle might have a slight edge and Tower might be a bit weaker but I honestly don't think it's too big of a discrepancy - plus I know there are Tower players who would rabidly disagree 
The only changes I'm thinking of making here are minor adjustments to dwelling costs (Dungeon, mostly, as well as those darn Cyclops) and heroes. Specifically, Druids suck. Other magic heroes could use a boost too, but Druids are the biggest offender. Alchemists too, probably.
Unfortunately, I'm a purist when it comes to heroes i.e. I always use heroes from my starting town unless none are available. If I were playing Castle and Crag Hack and that Cleric that has Nav spec were in my tavern, I'd take the Cleric (not a viable strategy online, but I mostly play with friends). So ideas for hero balance are always welcome. Giving magic heroes 6 starting stats like might heroes has already been addressed.
Towns considered unbalanced that I probably won't touch:
Inferno
Necropolis
I know a number of players consider Inferno to be pathetically weak, but I honestly don't think they are, and if the Inferno thread is any indication, players far more skilled than I would seem to agree. Inferno isn't amazing, but they're not terrible, either. If someone were to suggest a couple of tweaks here and there, I might see that worth following through on. I've already tried my hand at rebalancing the Heretic, a bit.
Necro, in all honesty, is a town that I only consider to be overpowered on XL 15 month slugfests. In smaller and faster games, I end up wondering if the extra skellies are enough to offset the absolutely terrible lvl 2 and 3 creatures.
I'm really not sure how to address the Necro imbalance. Suggestions?
Towns that really need balance changes:
Fortress
Conflux
So Fortress, IMHO, isn't as terrible as a lot of people make them out to be (play a small, poor map on 200% and THEN see how terrible Fortress is!) but it still could use some loving. The concept of a town being a defensive powerhouse just isn't all that great in H3, and even if it was, it still wouldn't be particularly fun.
What would, in people's minds, make Fortress a better town? I've already started by giving Hydras a much-needed speed boost, from 7->9 to 9->11, but I don't want to just do speed boosts across the board. Extra HP for Wyverns seems like a good idea.
Conflux is obviously OP and an absurd, game-breaking town. Right now I've lowered the growth of Sprites to 15, resulting in a total of 40, and Phoenixes to 1, like every other level 7. That alone should solve some major problems.
My dilemma right now is that Conflux is absurdly strong at levels 2 and 3, and utter garbage at levels 4 and 5. I feel like I should keep that tension in there, but that doesn't mean there can't be any adjustments.
Ice Elementals, specifically, need something different, because right now they're made almost completely redundant by the Storm Elementals.
What about slamming Storm's HP and Ice's damage and maybe make level 2 "glass cannons" and level 3 durable, but with unimpressive damage? You know, kind of like the difference between Elves and Beholders.
Level 6 I'd probably leave as is.
So, what are your thoughts?
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Star_King
Known Hero
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posted September 15, 2012 01:22 AM |
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KingCrimson
Hired Hero
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posted September 15, 2012 01:33 AM |
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Hey, that looks fantastic! And if I'm not mistaken, it's all done through text editing as well, so I can modify any changes he's made, right?
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Star_King
Known Hero
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posted September 15, 2012 01:44 AM |
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Yes, except he used an .exe file for secondary skill changes I think?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted September 15, 2012 12:17 PM |
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If you think a Necro town is only unbalanced in a XL 15 month game, I have to ask you what amount of skellies you would have gathered around week 4 on a normal rich XL map?
And if your answer is below 1,000, you're doing a lot of wrong things when playing necro 
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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SAG
Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
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posted September 15, 2012 12:49 PM |
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on Jebus it's easy to get 400 skeletons on day 8
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I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com
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Star_King
Known Hero
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posted September 16, 2012 01:36 AM |
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What about with Russian rules (no necro amplifier, no Vidomina or Isra if I recall correctly)? I don't have much experience with Necropolis in multiplayer.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted September 21, 2012 12:19 PM |
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I don't know exactly what I'd change, because I can't test how the change affects the units exactly.
There are however certain units which seems less useful than other units. Making these units more useful seems like a good idea.
These units are:
Monks/Zealots - they're level 4 units.
Cavaliers/Champions - low/mid end level 6 stats, without any reedeming quality.
Gremlins - slow, weak, no special ability.
Gargoyles - slow, weak
Stone Golems/Iron Golems - too slow, too little damage
Genies - too fragile and no reedeming quality
Giants - overall bad for their tier
Dwarfs/Battle Dwarfs - too slow, too little damage
Pegasi - horrible stats for a level 4, no reedeming quality
Dendroids/Dendroid Soldiers - too slow, too weak to be a tank
Unicorns/War Unicorns - low/mid end level 6 stats, without any reedeming quality.
Walking Deads/Zombies - too slow, too little damage.
Wights/Wraith - horrible stats, needs at least a lot more health
Vampires - horrible stats for a level 4 unit, has at least no retal.
Bone Dragons/Ghost Dragons - need a bit larger growth or more units to have transformed into
Imp/Familiar - more speed, or better stats
Gog/Magog - needs better stats, the upgrade need a proper speciality
Harpies - needs no enemy retal or more speed
Medusa - more shots, or more speed
Manticores/Scorpicores - low end level 6 stats, without any reedeming quality.
Lizardmen - needs better stats
Chaos Hydra - need a bit more speed and attack
Goblin - better stats
Orc/Orc Chieftan - a lot better stats
Ogre/Ogre Magi - too slow
Behemoths - needs more health
Pixie - needs more speed or no enemy retal
Fire Elemental/Energy Elemental - better stats
Earth Elemental/Magma Elemental - better stats
Gold Golem - more speed
Diamond Golem - more speed
Peasant - some special ability
Rogue - a bit better stats
Boar - a bit better stats
Troll - more health
Rust Dragon - weak for level 10
Crystal Dragon - weak for level 10
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Living time backwards
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Galileo
Known Hero
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posted September 21, 2012 04:37 PM |
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Champions seem less useful than others? :lol Champs are, after Angels, the most importaint Castle melee unit. They are fast and strong. Pegasi? Although they suck in big fights, they are excellent in small battles that should end quickly (like siege of a castle). There is also several other points in which I don't agree with you, Ohforf. Also, Fortress shouldn't get any improvements bigger than +1 att. or +5 hp. They are fastest faction concerning building in castles. Wyverns don't even need flies, IIRC.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 21, 2012 04:45 PM |
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IMO the only balance the game needs is giving to AI 10 times more army and several dangerous spells as fire shield, air shield, blind, dispel and frenzy. Between two humans nobody could prove one or another town is really weak, just noobies speculations.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Star_King
Known Hero
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posted September 21, 2012 05:23 PM |
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Champions and War Unicorns are both solid units overall. And they're not frail IDK what you're talking about. Also I think that unupgraded units being weak is not a big deal, it just means that more importance is placed upon upgrading them.
Towns should have their strengths and weaknesses to balance them and create a variety of gameplay, and that includes the strength of certain units. Not every unit should be good. For example, maybe Monks/Zealots are weak for a level 5 unit, but why improve them when Castle is already really good?
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The_Horn
Hired Hero
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posted September 21, 2012 08:05 PM |
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Totally agree!
I think that WOG option "rebalanced creatures" is just enough, actually I play WOG just because of that and skills moderation.
It's something like reduce growth of firebirds/ph. to 1, lizard 2x shoot, demons +5hp and so on....
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