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| Thread: Logistics and Guerilla Warfare | |
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted March 23, 2004 12:09 AM |
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Logistics and Guerilla Warfare
I think the army movement should have a more realistic dynamics in heroes 5 and that could be obtained by meeting several demands.
1. The army, when marching, is more or less, a disorganised column, with different groups beeing placed in front, middle or rear of the ranks.
2. An army does not march from down till dusk. They camp.
Based on these facts, a new approach could be made on the adventure map. Logistics could be the skill that could improve the status of the army while marching or camping. This is what I mean:
Suppose an army has 10 points of movement. If the hero has no Logistics Skill, the army could use all the points to march, but at the end of the day they will remain alligned as an overstreched column. The enemy could attack it and find it in dissaray. To correct this, the hero could opt to pause for 4 points of movement lets say, and use them to organise the army in bivouacs. Now they are well guarded. (it functions like digging)
As the hero advances in Logistics, fewer points of movement will be used to organise the army at the end of the turn, and also the column in march will be ordered and responsive to an attack.
As you can see, I imagine that an army can be attacked in two different ways: as a camp and as a column. The column status corresponds to an attack of the same army to some mine-defenders, lets say; (the hero should pose and organise the ranks before such an attack). Or as a camp, when the army is attacked itself by another army or wondering creatures.
this new idea would restrain the freedom of the army to engage multiple targets per day and to fight and travel efficiently over the same day period. This would be a bonus to the overall strategy on the adventure map.
On the other hand, a complemetary skill in the Tactics category could be implemented, lets say Guerilla, which would allow a hero to quickly attack a column or a camp and retreat very fast. This would allow him to pick a handful of enemy creatures, to concentrate a small number of his troops on this target, to decimate them and then flee unoposed. The number of his troops participating in the attack, the opposing creature number and level, and the number of turns (remember, the attack must be quick) used should be decided by the level in the Guerilla Skill.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted March 23, 2004 12:40 AM |
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I don't like it. Far too realistic.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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BURCUSH
Known Hero
Blood Captain of the Vampires
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posted March 23, 2004 12:49 PM |
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I think taht's an excellent ideea.
Bravo,mah
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted March 23, 2004 01:33 PM |
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Too realistic.
I have noticed that everyone wants to add a piece of their mind to the construction of Heroes 5, but, people, too much details like these ones will make the game UNPLAYABLE!!
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BURCUSH
Known Hero
Blood Captain of the Vampires
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posted March 23, 2004 01:56 PM |
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The HOMM III master dixit.....( i mean doomnezeu )it's not a bad ideea....realistic but excellent
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted March 23, 2004 07:13 PM |
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted March 23, 2004 09:56 PM |
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If everyone's ideas would make the game unplayable, let them adopt only mine! 
Now seriously, I realise that my topic is overcrowded in details that would burden the gaming, to some extent the idea can be easily implemented. They could adopt only the segment concerning the necessary before a battle or the few movement points required at the end of the turn. That's very little and far from too realistic.
Gerdash, I'll read the text and get back to you, although from what I know about the Agincourt battle I can't see a point in it right now.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted March 24, 2004 10:58 AM |
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no, it's not about battle of agincourt, it was a more general statement about battle etiquette that i knew where to find it (i had been reading about the battle not very long time ago).
you may check the link and use 'find' if you want proof that the scentence is really there, that's the reason why i provided the link. and a link is also useful if you want to estimate how trustworthy the source is.
the battle etiquette is important in my personal vision of the game.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted March 25, 2004 11:05 PM |
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Gerdash:
Oh, I see now your point, and it's a fair one. Indeed history is full of examples where certain rules were followed even when they prejudiced the one who followed them. But first of all, history is about humanity, while this game refers to more than that. Secondly, lets be human and admit that people always try to get the upper hand and when they can they will dismiss the etiquette and follow the easy path, example (first that crosses my mind): although the Pope himself condemned the use of the crossbow in it's early days under the risk of excommunication, this " devilish and cowardly" weapon saw a lot of action on the battlefield.
Then again, Heroes 4 disrespects the rules when introducing the Stealth skill and the rogues. So, it is debatable if the guerilla jeopardises the rules of the game or not. If you see it otherwise, please explain.
SillyWabitt:
You're most welcome to expand this idea and criticise it if you feel you're right. Same goes to everybody else who might take a look inside this topic. Thanks.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted March 26, 2004 01:27 AM |
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vladpopescu79:
lol, it's just me (and, as far as i have seen, a few other extremists) that feel it would benefit the game if there were rules that would make homm the ultimate pinnacle of honor.
i am quite satisfied with homm2, i don't expect that there will ever be a better homm than homm2, so i honestly don't care much. it was before homm4 that i had my hopes high.
ok, whatever.. btw i wonder how old is guerilla warfare as an official strategy and what was it called in medieval times..
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted March 26, 2004 09:18 PM |
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Quote:
ok, whatever.. btw i wonder how old is guerilla warfare as an official strategy and what was it called in medieval times..
I don't know it's name in the Middle Ages, but it existed even long before that. Just two examples: one with the ancient hebrews who harassed the romans, and one with my own ancestors who did the same thing when confronted with the turkish invasions (around 13-1400). So it's been with us since the beginning, I think. But I don't know what makes it official... the recording of it in a tactical manual? Perhaps since the invention of papyrus, or ceramic tiles... 
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted March 27, 2004 06:22 AM |
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'official' was a bad word for it. what i meant was 'not only barbarian' or 'fit for a civilized army'.
i wouldn't be surprised if the bush-rangers were called rogues, but that's just a guess.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted March 29, 2004 11:19 PM |
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Quote:
'official' was a bad word for it. what i meant was 'not only barbarian' or 'fit for a civilized army'.
i wouldn't be surprised if the bush-rangers were called rogues, but that's just a guess.
From what I've read, the "civilized" armies have always been just as wicked as any "barbarian" army. This including the praised Cavaliers and Christian Knights, who were amongst the worst.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Dyrvom
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 29, 2004 11:23 PM |
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I'd love to see something like this implemented, along with soldiers taking a turn to wade through 2-tile water streams and features like taking a few weeks to cross a mountain range. Of course a feature in the editor to make certain things remain untraversable should be included. Also, I love the thought of a beefed-up Stealth skill in which the user actually looks like an adventure object or neutral army.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted March 30, 2004 09:27 PM |
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Quote:
I'd love to see something like this implemented, along with soldiers taking a turn to wade through 2-tile water streams and features like taking a few weeks to cross a mountain range. Of course a feature in the editor to make certain things remain untraversable should be included. Also, I love the thought of a beefed-up Stealth skill in which the user actually looks like an adventure object or neutral army.
Your idea, Dyrvom, with the troops having to wait for a turn or more to cross a river stream is good. This remainds me that the Heroes games developed (reaching a peak with H3) diverse options like aid tents, siege machines (the catapult), ammo carts, and perhaps other useful "systems" that I don't recall right now, but it never employed PIONEERS.
The pioneers could be used as logistics boost, one way being that of constructing bridges where the map maker hadn't. Of course some areas should remain autraversable, but the option of crossing a river at a certain point could be interesting.
Another idea that crossed my mind is the building of CASTRUM: The troops can opt to pause for a day (if they notice that an attack is iminent) and dedeicate the turn to construct defense positions. This option could be included only for the barbarians (if they will be again deprived of the magic) or if the balance of the game permits it, to all of the alignments.
The castrum could employ wooden sticks sharpened at one end, tranches, small wodden posts for the archers, which may cause the nemies to lose turns when attacking them or to inflict minor damage upon the attacker. I'll try to develop this into a coherent image some other time.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Dyrvom
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 30, 2004 09:49 PM |
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I'd love to contribute to such an idea if you posted it (If you don't I may eventually). The wooden posts are known as palisades, and I like the idea of taking time to entrench before a fight, or maybe even spend a turn and a fee on beefing up a town's defenses temporarily. I think that in the next Heroes game a complete revamping of the Might Skills (besides Combat) would do wonders. Bring back Logistics as it's own skill, but with skill subsets capable of turning the hero into exactly what you mentioned: A versatile pioneer. Also, switch "Tactics" skill set to "Battle Tactics", and create a new "Strategy" skill + subset that has a streamlined Nobility-equivalent skill, and new global powers for the stronger heroes. I want the strategy put back in Turn-Based Stategy- because right now it's mostly Rush them and then tactics... There is a difference between tactics and strategy, people!!
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b0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted March 30, 2004 11:10 PM |
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If Heroes were te be realistic, it would have to be made as such from the very beginning.
For instance the game doesn't support retreating at all (there are "lose army" and "lose basically all gold" "choices"..)
Well there is working Town Gate spell in H4, but it's terribly unbalanced. With right setup, for instance Order/Chaos magic, such a mage can be almost unkillable and deal significant damage.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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