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| Thread: Tower vs Stronghold |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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gfreud
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 14, 2004 09:00 AM |
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Tower vs Stronghold
Hi. What would be a good tactick to beat stronghold with tower. What hero should I use? What secoundary skills would be good?
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted April 14, 2004 10:07 AM |
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Well, that depends on how do you play the game, what tactics do you use ussually. Is this battle taking place in a certain map? What number of creatures do you have and what number has the opponent? Is your opponent a comp or a human mind?
Or you just need a strategy for future battles?
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted April 14, 2004 01:51 PM |
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Get golden bow, tactics, archery and mass haste, and speed artifacts. Then fight on snow and on the turn of the master genies, cast mass haste and shoot the ABs  Then take down the wolf riders.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted April 14, 2004 03:44 PM |
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It would also be shweet if you had Orrin.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted April 14, 2004 07:04 PM |
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Pray that stronghold doesn't have any anti-magic artifacts.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted April 14, 2004 07:14 PM |
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By the way, what happens when both the orb of inhibition and the orb of vulnerability are involved in a battle?
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 14, 2004 08:53 PM |
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Quote:
Hi. What would be a good tactick to beat stronghold with tower. What hero should I use? What secoundary skills would be good?
First of all, take a look at your possible advantages...
1.Tower has 3 shooters, so the secondary skill "archery" is indispensable.
--> Lord_Woock is right here, the best hero for u would be Orrin, coz of his speciality "Archery". Sure u canīt choose him as starting hero, coz he is a castle hero. But perhaps u r lucky and find him in tavern on first day..
2. Your fastest unit (Titan, Genie) has speed of 11, same goes for stronghold (Thunderbirds). Be sure to have some speed arties, or try to fight on your native ground (snow), which gives u +1 speed. At least try to reach neutral ground (like grass) and be the attacker, so u will start first, when their are no other speed artifacts present.
3. You can build mage guild lev5, stronghold only lev3.
So magic could be an advantage for u, especially when opponent has no other towns and perhaps no tomes..
Now letīs take a look at the stronghold advantages...
1. This town is a massive attacker.
All units have a higher attack skill than a defense skill.
So u can be sure, that the opponent has the "offence" skill, and most of the time also the "armorer" skill. You can read more about these two skills here: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=6&TID=11801
2. The most important spell for stronghold is surley "mass haste", so he can rush with all armies to ur side and destroy everything he meets. That means he has at least "airmagic", sometimes "earthmagic" is taken aswell.
3. In 95% of all cases, stronghold hero have "tactics" as secondary skill. This means, the enemy army will come 6 hexes nearer in your range and he can place his army in a formation which fits exactly to yours.
So what can you do, to lower his advantages?
1. You wonīt be able to win a fight which is based only on "hand-to-hand" fights.....no way.
2. Take him his advantage of "tactics" and choose this skill for ur hero aswell!
3. Use his advantages AGAINST him. We know he has great attack skills and low defense skills. The best spell though, to take your advantage of this circumstance would be "berzerk". He will make massive damage on his own army.
If u r able to learn this spell, than try to get fire magic.
4. You will be the one who can do massive damage with aggressive spells, like lightning, chainlightning, implosion. So try to get sorcery as secondary skill
5. "earthmagic" is a must in my eyes, not only coz of slow, but coz of higher damage with implosion or meteor shower (if u get it) and coz of resurrection, mass shield...
But if your opponent carries the "orb of inhibiton", than your chances for a win will decrease to 5% in my eyes.
Also the recanterīs cloak will lower your chances extremly.
(Btw...if black orb and red orb are both involved in 1 fight, the black orb will have NO effect, coz no hero could cast a spell
Finally one personal hint for u.....the best town choice against stronghold (in my eyes) would be fortress....just my 2 cents..
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 15, 2004 10:13 AM |
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never EVER pick sorcery as secondary skill.
unless your name is bjorn and you play against a dork called haile =)
and btw, 95% of all games are won or lost before the final battle starts.
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted April 15, 2004 11:00 AM |
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Quote:
1c.
4. You will be the one who can do massive damage with aggressive spells, like lightning, chainlightning, implosion. So try to get sorcery as secondary skill
Well, all nice and good, but when it comes to epic battles (you know, 200 titans or higher/200 ABs or higher), offensive spells are not so good. In these cases, i would go for defensive spells like shield, bless, prayer, or curses like weakness, curse, slow and such.
And yes, angelito is right, the best way to fight stronghold is by choosing Fortress and Tazar. Pump him till ya reach about level 50 and see just how much damage someone inflicts upon you, hehe
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Wizard
Hired Hero
Trying to defend a castle
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posted April 15, 2004 03:58 PM |
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Another good tactic:
Use Neela, make her expert armorer and expert earth magic. Do not forget to cast Shield ;-) Then your troops will just die hard ....
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Against stupidity the very gods themselves contend in vain.
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 18, 2004 05:48 PM |
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Ideas from a noooooob
Best way and worst way: magic hit-and-run !!!
But 99% chances is that you will be prohibited to use it in the "might-dominated" online games (well, should I say might-oriented and might-favoring online multiplayer cultures  )
So, if you play to win, use magic hit and run and then it will be very difficult for you to find opponents next time.
If you play "traditional" "tactical" "honorable" way of fighting including sticking to original town heroes, I don't think there is very good tactic you could win stronghold under an opponent with similar skill as you. (well, if luck excluded)
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TheScholar
Hired Hero
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posted April 18, 2004 07:18 PM |
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Fast creatures or The Orb of Inhibition....
First of all I would like to say that "hit n' run tactics" do not belong in neither online games nor hotseat/network games. Secondly, too insinuate than Tower should be chanceless against Stronghold is a serious stupidity. In fact, Tower has good chances of defeating any army, simply because they do not have immense weaknesses of any kind.
When it comes to magical abilities they are probably the best castle around (library is an incredible building), and they are not altogether helpless on might either. They have high HP values and three shooters. The master Gremlins tend to give them a good start in the game, but should however be dispatched before the endgame, where a high-speed, strong unit should replace them. Some phoenixes would be ideal for this task. If the leading hero has managed to open Archery, Tower finds itself in a very opportune situation, having the possibilty to make use of its strongest unit without having to expose it to immediate danger. A golden bow or bow of the sharpshooter is very often present when the game has lasted some months.
But I would like to elaborate a bit further on the high-speed-unit-tactics. Fact is that nomatter what army you have, it is a great advantage to have the initiative, to be able to land the first stroke, especially with the 7th levels. Thus, "Mass haste" is often the best spell to cast in endfights. However, Mass Haste does not ensure that all important units will move before the opponent gets the turn.
If I not return to the hypothetical Tower vs Stronghold situation, which was the request of the originator of the thread, I believe - it is clear that both sides should strive to have an extremly quick creature in the army's ranks. If both of them possess phoenixes, for instance, it would not be aa good idea for the one who gets the first move to cast a Mass Haste. Why not? Namely because the speed of the opponent phoenixes is high enough to break this chain of moves rather quickly. In other words, if Tower casts "Mass Haste," it is not altogether sure that his Titans will get to move before the enemy phoenixes. In which case only the opponent will either despell, cast "Mass slow" or something like that, thus gaining the initiative.
Someone wrote that the possible presence of an orb of inhibition in such a combat situation would render the battle completely unwinnable for tower. I disagree. Under normal circumstances, this would be true. But if the alternative is to meet a Stronghold Hero who possesses faster animals and "Expert Haste," the orb should be used. In fact, a good Tower hero who has opened Archery and Tactics should definitely use the orb in such a situation. Why tactics? Definitely not because one would want to line the Tower army in the middle of the battlefield, six hexes from the opponents! But because "Expert Tactics" on both sides would disable the "tactical" preface of the combat altoghether, and Barbarians almost per definiton have tactics.
So, this would meen that the Titan is practically ensured two shots one the Ancient Behemots. If he has the golden bow or the bow of the sharpshooter he gets two shots inflicting full damage, if not, he gets one shot inflicting full damage and one inflicting half damage. Anyway, this should be enough to cripple the Barbarian army. The Arch Magi will fire on the wolf riders, and the Naga Queens will deal with whatever comes across.
So, ironically, the Orb of Inhibition can save a wizard in a combat situation against a barbarian, first and foremost because of the speed difference between the Titans and the Ancient Behemoths.
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regnus_khan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
[ Peacekeeper of Equilibris ]
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posted April 18, 2004 07:22 PM |
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Well, I'd use these tactics:
Playing Tower:
1) I agree with angelito. 3 shooters per town - archery is indispensable. But don't forget to buy an ammo cart too. It will empower your titans a bit and some units like M.Gremlins. Try to get Archery skill if you can, cause Orrin will be hard to get.
2) Naga Queens are one of the best to clean the front, though I'd prefer sending kamikazi gargoyles into attack. Naga queens could be able to attack some more powerful units faster. If you're lucky, cast haste on them. One turn and half of the stack is destroyed.
3) Use magic advantages against Stronghold. Three levels aren't a single thing against five of them that Tower has. Plus, Tower gains a chance to gain very useful Ch.Lightning spell.
4) Use Solmyr's advantage if it's possible, but don't forget it's a bit n00bish to play with this hero.
5) Do not send genies in combat. Instead of that try to cast Counterstrike on Nagas or Master Gremlins, so they have more and more advantages against the enemy.
Playing Stronghold:
1) Try to send behemoths into combat without suffering big losses. Best to cast any spell that strengthens your defense skill. Behemoths will ignore the percentage if defence and vanquish the frontline very fast.
2) Use the advantage of buying behemoths in first week. Titans are a hard thing to get because of their gem need. Though, do not forget to buy cyclopses as fast as you can, 'coz they can empower your army too.
3) Use the disadvantage of speed. If the enemy is a veteran player, it will be uneasy to use this. it is very valuable to have thunderbirds doing extra lightning damage after the stack was already attacked before.
4) Use the fury of goblins and orcs to destroy the attackers, but defend them as much as you can. Wolf Riders will be a menace, but you have to remove the HP deficit.
5) Artillery and offense in the army - very useful. Use archery and armorer as well. If ballista's bought, there are 3 vs. 3 shooters. Artillery will empower your ballistae and archery to empower some other units. Offence and armorer are inevitable for barbarian heroes of course.
6) Use DESSA! And Gurnisson! One of the best heroes to use when playing Stronghold (and playing homm )
Both towns:
1) Attack the stack that has a lot of units, but already retaliated.
2) Do not forget to use some hero advantages.
3) Try to find as many arties as you can, coz they'll improve you more and more.
4) Attack the shooters! It is hard to destroy a titan, but not a gremlin. Same goes with other town. Strong cyclops, and 10-gremlins-in-1 orc chieftain.
MORE TIPS (AND SOME OF THE WRITTEN ALREADY) ARE ANGELITO's (he's a veteran )
You may find these a bit n00bish tips, coz I'm not an old veteran, but I find these hints very useful (since I use them of course  ). Use them if they help ya'
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted April 18, 2004 07:30 PM |
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Quote:
ANGELITO's (he's a veteran )
...eh?
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted April 18, 2004 07:41 PM |
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I'm pretty sure Angelito would own Woock in a game of H3.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 18, 2004 11:56 PM |
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Lmaoooooo....
To make one fact clear here:
Iīm NOT a veteran!!!
Iīm far a way from beeing that....i started online playing about 5 weeks ago, so i donīt win a dime against any real veteran in the zone (except with much much luck)!!
Everything what i post here in the library is whole theoretically or my experiences while playing against the dump computer.
...sorry for disappointing some of u guys..
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 19, 2004 03:09 AM |
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Ha, very good analysis, but just too many "IF"
So,
IF it is a rich map and I can build titan approximately at the same time as opponents can build AB.
IF I can get golden bow or whatever that combo arti is.
IF I can get phoneix (well, why not azure, it cannot be slowed )
IF I can get tactic, archery, blah blah blah.......
IF I have red orb or recanter when I am wizard facing Crag and so I could have the mercy of not using these arti....
Then, of course, tower stands fanblooodytastic chance to win over stronghold.
I won't argue more coz all arguments come to one conclusion:
"meet me at zone baby and I'll tell you what's good tactic...... but I am a stupid coward who has no intention to play on net.
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KingofMinota...
Known Hero
Ruling the minotaurs below
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posted April 19, 2004 06:42 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Hi. What would be a good tactick to beat stronghold with tower. What hero should I use? What secoundary skills would be good?
Quote:
1.Tower has 3 shooters, so the secondary skill "archery" is indispensable.
--> Lord_Woock is right here, the best hero for u would be Orrin, coz of his speciality "Archery". Sure u canīt choose him as starting hero, coz he is a castle hero. But perhaps u r lucky and find him in tavern on first day..
Absolutely I agree totally with this. It is needed for Tower
Quote:
2. Your fastest unit (Titan, Genie) has speed of 11, same goes for stronghold (Thunderbirds). Be sure to have some speed arties, or try to fight on your native ground (snow), which gives u +1 speed. At least try to reach neutral ground (like grass) and be the attacker, so u will start first, when their are no other speed artifacts present.
Also a good point, speed can definatey make the difference in the outcome of a battle.
Quote:
3. You can build mage guild lev5, stronghold only lev3.
So magic could be an advantage for u, especially when opponent has no other towns and perhaps no tomes..
OK, but there are good spells from 1-3, but I can't say Stronghold gets a lot of them.
Quote:
Now letīs take a look at the stronghold advantages...
1. This town is a massive attacker.
All units have a higher attack skill than a defense skill.
So u can be sure, that the opponent has the "offence" skill, and most of the time also the "armorer" skill. You can read more about these two skills here: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=6&TID=11801
2. The most important spell for stronghold is surley "mass haste", so he can rush with all armies to ur side and destroy everything he meets. That means he has at least "airmagic", sometimes "earthmagic" is taken aswell.
3. In 95% of all cases, stronghold hero have "tactics" as secondary skill. This means, the enemy army will come 6 hexes nearer in your range and he can place his army in a formation which fits exactly to yours.
So what can you do, to lower his advantages?
1. You wonīt be able to win a fight which is based only on "hand-to-hand" fights.....no way.
2. Take him his advantage of "tactics" and choose this skill for ur hero aswell!
3. Use his advantages AGAINST him. We know he has great attack skills and low defense skills. The best spell though, to take your advantage of this circumstance would be "berzerk". He will make massive damage on his own army.
If u r able to learn this spell, than try to get fire magic.
4. You will be the one who can do massive damage with aggressive spells, like lightning, chainlightning, implosion. So try to get sorcery as secondary skill
5. "earthmagic" is a must in my eyes, not only coz of slow, but coz of higher damage with implosion or meteor shower (if u get it) and coz of resurrection, mass shield...
But if your opponent carries the "orb of inhibiton", than your chances for a win will decrease to 5% in my eyes.
Also the recanterīs cloak will lower your chances extremly.
(Btw...if black orb and red orb are both involved in 1 fight, the black orb will have NO effect, coz no hero could cast a spell
Finally one personal hint for u.....the best town choice against stronghold (in my eyes) would be fortress....just my 2 cents..
Sorry to disagree with you here but I can't say this is the best town to use against Stronghold. I'm very sure you know the AB's or even the normal Behemoths special would work. 80% defense gone. so how exactly would Fortress be best against them (granted Mighty Gorgons could cause exceptional losses here). The only thing Fortress has is defense. They are seriously lacking attack power. The best attackers (w/o death stare) are Gnoll Marauders and Greater Basilisks. Lizardmen are the worst archers, maybe 2nd to Master Gremlins. And the Flies? Be serious. I'm sorry but i am rambling. This is about Tower and Stronghold. I need to be stopped whe nthis happens . Anyway I think Tower is maybe the best town to go up against Stronghold, 2nd I would shoot for would be Castle.
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Be who you will be who you are but i'm the King of the Minotaur.
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krule
Hired Hero
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posted May 07, 2004 11:38 PM |
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There is one good tactic with tower against strong. You protect your titans with other units. He can still shoot. So you get adventage over ancient. I lost a few matches over this tactic. It isnt bad at all.
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Sluđaj mater!
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Maniak
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 13, 2004 05:18 PM |
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What everyone said is mostly true... but generally there is no fights with 50 level 7 against 50 level 7 or maybe that's just the way I play... Also, I am completly a might and will rarely rely on magic beyond level 2 or 3.
So, people said that Stronghold would get mass haste and that once he's on u, he will crush u cuz he's a fighter. Well that could be right, but why would u want to get mass haste too ? so u can waste 1 turn of spell to be back to the begining ? Get mass slow, so u can have a fight of mass slow vs mass haste until he's on u ?
I think people like too much high level spells... I don't know about you, but I don't get expert earth to caste implosion, IMHO its strong enough even if I don't have earth, tho its better if I do. I spec magics cuz of spells that can be GREATLY improved with it.
IMHO fire magic is AMAZING, berserk is crazy if you have it, but as I said I do not rely on such spells.
So you are fighting stronghold, get expert fire magic and curse... sure he'll get on u and u'll have to fight hand to hand, but you KNOW it and can be PREPARED for it. Think about it.
Hobgoblins: 1-2 vs -0.2(well minimum damage I guess)
Wolf Raider: 3-4 vs 1.4
Orc Chieftain: 2-5 vs 0.6
Ogre Mage: 6-12 vs 3.8
Thunderbird: 11-15 vs 7.8
Cyclops King: 16-20 vs 11.8
Ancient Behemoth: 30-50 vs 23
Am I crazy ? Maybe, but the way I see it, you attacked the biggest strength of Stronghold, its incredible capability to deal dmg. For just about EVERY creature you reduced their dmg to half their maximum damage and sometimes to much less. Combine that to a good armorer skill and u will have neutralized their offense.
As it was mentionned before, Stronghold can't rely on spells since they don't have mage guild level 4-5... And with that you don't need a magic hero, you can get a might hero and u can survive EASILY with only 40 mana and a spell power of 5.
I'm crazy ? ok, well give me your input on this please.
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