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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted March 26, 2010 08:52 PM |
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Sounds good to me. 
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 26, 2010 08:57 PM |
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Well, isn't that the whole point of everything?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 26, 2010 09:48 PM |
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Quote:
I'm actually interested in an answer to this as well; "contraception" does pose problems for pro-lifers. Although I'm fairly certain my reasoning is quite different from Doomforge's, which, if I remember his reasoning correctly, is completely untenable. (No offense, DF  )
None taken  The "reasoning" I took here once was more of a way to provoke people into deep thinking rather than my own point of view (unless you mean something else, like my attitude towards piracy )
It's not a secret that the pills prevent fertilization BUT also all work as early abortion method once the fertilization actually happens. Which, according to Elodin, is a sin even if the fetus is 2 hours old, because it's already human. Meaning, he should be anti-hormonal contraception entirely.
Which is actually acceptable. But my point when asking this was rather to pinpoint that people who use the argument of "the fetus is alive and human from the second its created" should be aware of the ways the commonly used contraception works. SO they should either use "natural methods"/condoms only, or stop using that argument. Because that just makes them big hypocrites. A woman that has the contraceptive spiral inserted (which doesn't even prevent the fertilization afaik, just prevents the fetus from "rooting" in the uterus, which is nothing but abortion) and mouthing how "abortion is bad" and "life is life from the very first second" is a great example of this. Don't you agree that ignorance doesn't justify the hypocrisy?
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 26, 2010 11:27 PM |
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Nevermind then; we're on the same wavelength after all. The ultimate point is that the words "contraception" and "birth control" are used interchangeably when not all methods of birth control are contraceptive. Many are also contragestive - they prevent implantation after conception.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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GrayFace
Promising
Known Hero
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posted March 27, 2010 04:35 PM |
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Edited by GrayFace at 16:41, 27 Mar 2010.
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I think pro-life thing is totally pointless. Even taking a Christian stand point it wouldn't sound too reasonable.
Think of whom the mother (or doctor) hurts.
1) Father, other relatives/friends? Rarely that much.
2) Fetus? The soul of it would go to Heaven. It can't go to Hell, right? So why is it bad for him/her to go straight to Heaven?
3) God? Yes! That's what it is about. It's about her relationship with God. So, we want to punish her for this! Yes, God surely will judge her fairly, like none of us can do. But we will punish her anyway! Why? Sounds like a blood-lust really.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 27, 2010 06:09 PM |
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So killing a homeless guy with no family is okay, according to you?
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Eccentric Opinion
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GrayFace
Promising
Known Hero
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posted March 28, 2010 04:06 AM |
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So killing a homeless guy with no family is okay, according to you?
Nope. This aspect is even simpler. Fetus isn't a 'guy', it cannot feel pain, brain isn't developed and so on, so it is ok to kill this thing. It's the same as killing a fly if we don't assume it has a soul. If we assume it has a soul, we get to my previous post. Then it's not ok to kill fetus, but we aren't the ones to judge this.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 28, 2010 07:46 AM |
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GrayFace
Promising
Known Hero
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posted March 28, 2010 10:33 AM |
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Edited by GrayFace at 10:44, 28 Mar 2010.
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So is it to kill a homeless guy if it's painless?
If he doesn't have a thinking mind and lives inside someone's body, then yes. That someone has full rights to get rid of this 'homeless guy'.
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GrayFace
Promising
Known Hero
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posted March 29, 2010 05:27 AM |
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BTW, even if a real homeless guy gets into your house, you also have the right to get rid of him.
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted March 29, 2010 06:17 AM |
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Yeah, so if a guy got hit by a car and stumbles into your house half past two in the afternoon, begging for his life, you're actually allowed to blow a friggin hole through his head. Yay for justice!
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 29, 2010 10:07 AM |
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If he doesn't have a thinking mind and lives inside someone's body
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stumbles into your house half past two in the afternoon, begging for his life
mutually exclusive.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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GrayFace
Promising
Known Hero
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posted March 29, 2010 01:10 PM |
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Edited by GrayFace at 13:14, 29 Mar 2010.
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And let's talk about fetuses, not homeless guys.
mvassilev, what's your faith?
If you're a Christian, then what do you think about my first post?
If you don't believe in God, then why do you consider fetus a 'guy'?
If you're from other confession, then answer the question which is less obvious.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 29, 2010 05:14 PM |
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I'm an atheist and I'm pro-choice. I just think your argument for it is bad.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted March 31, 2010 12:58 AM |
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I agree with babies, but early term pre-brain, pre-heart fetus are not people yet. I've never had an abortion and probaby never would. But I believe we should have the right to cleanse our temples, especially in cases where the pregnancy was forced.
The baby is a human life. He has multiplying cells, unique human DNA, and is the product of human conception. Saying the pre-born baby is not a person is a shell game.
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If the government kidnapped you and made you pregnant like the movie junior would you keep it? What if it was with 2 men's sperm genetically modified so one acts like an egg?
I am a man so I can't become pregnant.  i've not seen the movie you speak of.
If my wife were treated in such a manner we would not murder the baby. The baby did nothing wrong.
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Also, I've known a few people bounced around the foster care/orphanage systems of North America. A great deal of them were abused, some are even hit on or worse by their foster parents. Most of them actually wish they were aborted. Which means we need better controls... which also means fewer kids get adopted since fewer parents are found eligible... which means a tax hike to look after all these kids that nobody can adopt =(
I think that only a very small plercentage of people in orphanages would asy they wish they had been aborted. Those need mental health care.
Lots of people are prevented from adopting because liberasl have made sure that only the well-off can adopt. No, no tax hikes are needed.
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Simple, it's out, it's seperate from the mother. it is surviving on its own and not totally dependent of the mother.
Newsfash! Inants and small children can't survive on their own. do you agree with some to the libs who advise Obama that children up to 2 years old should be able to be killed by their parents? I'm talking about Peter Singer.
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and I'm proposing that ability not to become pregnant the moment you have sex, and the right to choose whether to have a child or not, is the single greatest step in womens rights since the suffregettes movement in 1910's.
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The "right" to murder a child is devilish, not an advancement.
So Elodin, what's your opinion on contraceptive pills?
Anti-aborts really should condemn them.
There is nothing wrong with contraceptives that prevent contraception. But "birth control" that kills a fertilized egg (zygote.) is murder.
Quote:
I think pro-life thing is totally pointless. Even taking a Christian stand point it wouldn't sound too reasonable.
Think of whom the mother (or doctor) hurts.
1) Father, other relatives/friends? Rarely that much.
2) Fetus? The soul of it would go to Heaven. It can't go to Hell, right? So why is it bad for him/her to go straight to Heaven?
3) God? Yes! That's what it is about. It's about her relationship with God. So, we want to punish her for this! Yes, God surely will judge her fairly, like none of us can do. But we will punish her anyway! Why? Sounds like a blood-lust really.
You seem to be unaware that Christians are to speak out against evil and murdering a child is certainly evil. So what if the child goes to heaven? He still have a right to live.
It is a lie to say pro-lifers are wanting to punish a woman because of her lack of a relationship with God. If you just want to make stuff up I'll say pro-abortionists just love to kill babies and that is why they are pro-abortion.
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Nope. This aspect is even simpler. Fetus isn't a 'guy', it cannot feel pain, brain isn't developed and so on, so it is ok to kill this thing. It's the same as killing a fly if we don't assume it has a soul. If we assume it has a soul, we get to my previous post. Then it's not ok to kill fetus, but we aren't the ones to judge this.
Sorry, but a fetus has multiplying cells, unique human DNA, and is the product of human conception. The fetus is therefore a unique human life. Saying the fetus is not a person is a shell game.
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Revelation
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 31, 2010 03:34 AM |
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Wanted to know your thoughts. As I've stated, I'm against abortion in cases where somebody just haphazardly kills the fetus without thinking it over and does not take it into consideration, as well as being against abortion if the baby has the ability to think and feel. Let's agree to disagree perhaps on that point.
I'm glad that you're not against all forms of contraception, like the Catholic church is. The pope has done a lot of harm in Africa by telling people that condoms do not stop any STDs, particularly AIDs. All because every sperm is sacred to that particular form of Christianity, which fortunately is not yours.
Regardless, I myself have never and most likely would still never have an abortion. But I do believe people should have the option in certain (particularly life threatening) conditions. I suppose I'm a centrist on this topic.
You've never seen the movie Junior? One of Arnold Schwartzeneggar's many mid-90's movies. Better than Jingle All the Way at least. In the movie Arnie is made pregnant via a scientific procedure/experiment (he's the most muscular scientist in the world) and carries the child through to the end.
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Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
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GrayFace
Promising
Known Hero
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posted March 31, 2010 05:50 AM |
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Quote:
Sorry, but a fetus has multiplying cells, unique human DNA, and is the product of human conception. The fetus is therefore a unique human life.
So what? It doesn't make fetus a person.
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Saying the fetus is not a person is a shell game.
Sorry, it's not a shell game. It's truth. 
Now, in the field of human rights. What right do you have to enforce you beliefs on another person? You know, a huge number of persons don't believe fetus is a person. Their moral isn't worse or better than yours. What gives you the right to judge them? They aren't doing anything bad, according to their moral.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 31, 2010 06:21 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Simple, it's out, it's seperate from the mother. it is surviving on its own and not totally dependent of the mother.
Newsfash! Inants and small children can't survive on their own.
Notice the word totally.
In principe, the death due to abortion is not an act of murder, but can be put almost equal to the act of throwing someone out of your home (abortion), very well knowing that only in your home they can survive, whereas outside they won't be able to, unless you wait some time (birth, or at least a state where the baby can survive outside the womb via aid that goes beyond simple processes usually required).
After this time, you can again throw them out (birth), they won't be able to survive on their own, but now others have the opportunity to help them survive (adoption/state interfer).
That's what makes the difference in my opinion and why your attempt to equal murder of born, able to survive without help from the mother (not disincluding anyone else) babies with babies that only can survive given they stay in the womb.
The reason I write almost equal, and not completely equal, is because ones body is much more ones own private ownership than a home is, which means it's an even higher violation to not be able to get rid of unwanted parts of your body if you so choose, than the violation of not allowing someone to throw out a person of your home, because that person won't be able to survive then and no one except you, have the posibility of helping said person.
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Living time backwards
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted March 31, 2010 09:47 AM |
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Quote:
Now, in the field of human rights. What right do you have to enforce you beliefs on another person? You know, a huge number of persons don't believe fetus is a person. Their moral isn't worse or better than yours. What gives you the right to judge them? They aren't doing anything bad, according to their moral.
It is a scientific fact taht the fetus is a unique human life. He is alive because his cells are multiplying. He is human because he has human DNA and is the product of human conception.
The zygote is clearly the first stage of the human life cycle.
Hitler defined some humans as "non-persons" too. Saying a human is not a person is just a shell game.
Someone's beliefs are always enforce. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that there are laws against theft and rape for example.
I just think innocent human life should be protected. I'm sorry of you don't think so.
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Notice the word totally.
Infants and small children are totally dependant on others.
Let's say a single mother bears an infant at home. She places him in a crib. The infant is totally dependent on her. So your logic is that she should be allowed to kill the infant becuse he is totally dependant on her.
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The reason I write almost equal, and not completely equal, is because ones body is much more ones own private ownership than a home is, which means it's an even higher violation to not be able to get rid of unwanted parts of your body if you so choose, than the violation of not allowing someone to throw out a person of your home, because that person won't be able to survive then and no one except you, have the posibility of helping said person.
It is no great mystery how the baby came to be in the womb of the mother. The baby is exactly where he is supposed to be during that stage of the human life cycle. The baby is "home." Aborting it is murder.
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted March 31, 2010 01:54 PM |
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Line! For the love of <insert deity>! Please!
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This thread is pages long: 
