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| Thread: Could the Moore 9/11 film tilt the results of the US election? | |
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted June 29, 2004 09:26 AM |
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Could the Moore 9/11 film tilt the results of the US election?
Some say it could.
I haven't seen it yet (as of Monday, June 28th), but will probably give it a look-see very soon.
From what I understand of it, of what people are saying about it, this documentary basically slams GW Bush's presidency from start to, well, to the present. I can't say I like Moore all that much, I find him to be somewhat of a loud-mouthed blowhardt, annoying and abrasive, but I do appreciate his right to say straight out what a lot of people don't want to hear. (and what a lot of other people DO want to hear)
Also from what I can gather, the movie's content is spot-on in places, but nothing more than a slanted bias propaganda piece in other places.
In other words, it is classic Michael Moore.
But could it affect the US election?
It seems the right-wing side of the Amercan government thinks so, as they condemn the work and are trying to limit its distribution. Free speech is great and is of paramount importance to us all...... that is until someone says something we absolutely hate and disagree with adamantly. Then freedom of speech sucks. I say too bad for the Republicans, because if people's minds and votes can be swayed this easily then they deserve to lose. Period.
Does this mean I agree with Moore on all points? No, but then again I have not seen the movie yet (I'll see it in a day or two). I believe that the conservative/republican party platform is the one that holds the most sense overall to my way of thinking, but whether or not Bush is the best man at the helm is another matter.
If the present government in the USA thinks the election might be lost or won based on this or any other movie of one man's opinion, they are basically insulting the intelligence of the average American. If the people truly are "mindless sheep" who can be swayed and convinced in this way, then that just says to me that the president's support was soft to begin with.
Lastly, this is a Michael Moore movie, take it for what it's worth. If you are going to see it hoping to find out the truth behind 9/11 I'm betting it will leave you wanting.
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grendal
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 29, 2004 10:15 AM |
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This movie is definately a biased point of view, but is certainly thought provoking. It, to me, also begs for answers to ceratain questions or at least an explanation of whether certain facts are true or not. Here is a few
1 Why were 16,000 votes not counted in a certain district in Florida or did this happen?
2. Why did a number of african american congressional representatives object in congress to the final vote results and why didnt one single senator join in this objection, consequently nulifying the objections. Or did that happen?
3. Why would the secretary of Bush's campaign also be the person in charge of vote counting in Florida?
4. Does Saudi Arabia actually have 860 billion dollars invested in america and does that equate to owning 7% of the United States
5. Did the Bush government fly 24 bin laden family members out of the country 2 days after the 9/11 attacks.
6. Are 6 secret service men assigned to protect the saudi embassy and if so are other embassies assigned men as well?
7. Did Bush get suspended from the texan national guard for refusing to have a medical done? And if he did why did Micheal Moore have a copy of that report stating so, at the same time the Bush administration released the same document with that information blacked out?
There is too many questions raised in my mind to list them all here. I just watched the movie and although i cant answer lots of this, I sure as heck believe there was a lot more going on here, than a war on terror. Questions need to be answered!
Will this have an effect on your election? It certainly should. Regardless of whether u are a republican or a democrat this "documentary" (if thats what it is) should make everyone ask questions and demand clear answers.
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Life is full of frustrations, heroes should help release it!
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted June 29, 2004 03:32 PM |
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Nope
It is nothing more than entertainment. I realized the first thing about this movie was that it is the only 9/11 "documentary"(LoL, yeah right) with and opinion behind it. It's good for a laugh, that's all. It does what it is supposed to do, relieve some of the horrible tensions and memories for many of the people who remember that time so clearly with horror. That's why I think it is a good movie. For myself, it allows me to laugh at something that usually brought me tears. Laughing is good for healing. My vote will not be changed because of this comedic documentary. I think the French invented the best word for this, "farce".
It is indeed, a farce...
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted June 29, 2004 03:58 PM |
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While it should not play a part in the election, Consis, it will. Moore has always created propaganda films.
Michael Moore's films are about as funny as a train wreck in my opinion.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted June 29, 2004 04:22 PM |
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What amuses me most about his films is the way that his opponents pick holes in parts of his arguments, but ultimately fail to answer any of his questions. Calling him or his answers innacurate does not mean that his questions are not very relevant. Refferring to his works as propaganda is just a cheap and easy way of avoiding some of the very good points he does make, whatever way he does them.
As to the central question of it's affect, I'm sure it will have some effect, if very little admitedly. Given the proportion of spin and propaganda from the Bush administration and it's supporters I would imagine it to be a little rich to protest at some back though....
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
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posted June 29, 2004 06:54 PM |
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He's a fat, disgusting slob who gets rich off slander. That being said, I can't stand Michael Moore. Those photos of Bush playing golf and all of this other nonsense is just strategic slander. Since when is it illeagel for the president to play golf? He makes money off tragedies such as Columbine and 9/11 and I think it's sick. Sadly, his ramblings will sway some voters, but I still have faith in Bush.
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"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted June 29, 2004 07:54 PM |
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Edited By: Consis on 29 Jun 2004
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To Wolfman And Others,
That's the question isn't it? As a citizen of any sovereign nation one must always be aware that propaganda can and will be used by many politicians, extremists, religious fanatics, etc. It is a simple fact of life. Hence the great and dire need for being well-educated. Who is to blame if a country's people is led by a person who makes believable propaganda? The head of state only? I say nay.
I know of propaganda from many different aspects of what is current politics both past and present. I don't know about anyone else but I always try to look at as many possible reasonable angles to the most important issues that concern me. Going to war, electing a president, calling for special investigations, and other such high priority things interest me greatly. I therefore am not only compelled but it is also my duty as an american citizen to find the truth about what to decide when voting on such things. Education is the hard line difference between justified existence and meaningless meandering.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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hamsi128
Promising
Supreme Hero
tosser tavern owner
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posted June 29, 2004 07:56 PM |
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Quote:
Since when is it illeagel for the president to play golf? He makes money off tragedies such as Columbine and 9/11 and I think it's sick. .
i dont like Bush but i agree with you the movie is commercial ...
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quoting my post = bullet in your head
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted June 29, 2004 08:07 PM |
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It is what it is...
I thought it was overall a very good film. The most powerful and effective parts are interviews with soldiers in Iraq and with the mother of a soldier who was killed in Iraq. Also particularly disturbing is footage of what the guerilla attacks on the US soldiers actually involve, since these attacks are treated very clinically and dispassionately by the rest of the media. This is driven home by a visit to a veterans hospital where they show the painful rehabilitation for the people who are "lucky" enough to only be wounded. These all represent real things that have happened and real feelings of the people involved in Bush's war and thus don't suffer from the problems of Moore editorializing that often detract from rather than enhance his points. I have several friends in or recently finished with their tours in the military and they all reacted very positively to the movie.
There are, of course, some flaws with the movie. I thought that the Saudi connection was misplayed. The major problem with Bush being so cozy with the Saudi government is not the fact that they may or may not be connected with Osama Bin Laden, the problem is that the Saudi government is a brutal dictatorship that should not be counted among our allies (although, to be fair, Bush is doing his best to ensure that the US human rights record matches that of Saudi Arabia). Also, sometimes when Moore puts in footage to elicit a laugh (normally Bush or a member of his administration doing something really stupid) it distracts from the fact that what this administration is doing is truly horrible and isn't funny at all.
It does need to be pointed out that the Democrats are not depicted positively in the movie at all. The Democratic leaders in congress are shown as complacent and all too willing to roll over and let Bush have his way. Unfortunately, for much of Bush's tenure this has, in fact been the case.
I don't see it changing many voters' minds for the main reason that the people who need to see this movie won't. If it changes any voter's mind, it would actually probably be to Nader since, like I said, the Democrats do not come off very well. What it can probably do is energize people who were leaning against Bush anyway. I absolutely guarantee that anyone who sees this movie will make sure that they vote in this coming election (if, of course, their not disenfrancished under a phony claim of being a convicted felon).
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Drive by posting.
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted June 30, 2004 12:11 AM |
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Do average americans even know about the enormous impact that saudi oil interests have on US politics and elections? Probably not. There's alot of things you don't know, and even more you wouldn't believe. Instead of thinking or checking things out, many US people that I've seen, prefer to call someone crazy or fat - instead of trying to get closer to the truth.
Maybe thats one area where the US people could improve? Listening to people, and using reason instead of calling people that claim non-likeable things crazy.
I believe that Mr.Moore is trying to do you guys a great service. Knowing about things that are going on is a fundamental part of democracy. Even if reality doesn't fit with biggotry and easy answers. There are questions, and until you answer them, you are none the wiser.
Still, the USA is a pretty awesome country. Just remember that the prize of freedom is eternal vigilance.. 
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I am the hope of the universe... I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace... I am protector of the innocent... I am the light in the darkness... I am truth.
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted June 30, 2004 11:07 AM |
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Here's another well-written, witty critique of the film by a NeoCon who was against the Iraq war:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/278rxzvb.asp
CONSIDERING THAT I'm writing this from inside the bunker of what many regard as the Alliance of Neocon Warmongers, it bears mentioning that Michael Moore and I have one surprising trait in common: We both believe that the war in Iraq was ill-advised, ill-planned, and ill-executed, an apparent failure bordering on unmitigated disaster, that was never in our best national interest. Around our office over the last two years, I've made these arguments to colleagues, open-minded types who, after they put me through my water-boarding/naked pyramid sessions, say they'll take it under advisement. And I make the disclosure now so that readers will not be confused. I do not trash Fahrenheit 9/11 because it's a piece of antiwar propaganda. I trash Fahrenheit 9/11 because it's an offal-laden piece of junk.
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