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| Thread: Philosophy |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted August 13, 2004 05:43 AM |
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Wow, doom, we've got am official philosopher here. Hats down, ladies and gentlemen. 
So, some brainstorming you got there. I hope we can elaborate more on each of the point you make.
First, let me tell you that Camus ("The Stranger") is on my schedule of books, so I cant comment about him until some time this autumn.
Now mixing Marx and Nietzsche, has always been a scary thought to me. It's like evil socialism, and to tell you the truth, whenever I see a picture of the man I feel like seeing the devil himself. Not that I dont think he made some excellent points, but somehow he went to the dark side, if you know what I mean.
Maybe you can tell me more about that connection you incorporate in your mind between Marx and Nietzsche. I for one, would really like to know.
Or if you like we can dissect Nietzsche and reveal his evil-doings to the rest of the people here. 
"Romanian weird mentality" is not exclusively romanian, nor it is weird. I know exactly what you're talking about, but I think it's common for all post-communist societies, though it kind a dies out with the new generations, wouldnt you agree?
But not Plato, please. That guy was one of the most delusioned men in the history of humankind. I wonder how you can find similarities with him.
Khaelo,
specters seem to work well with my mind too. 
I find your polytheistic believe fascinating. Maybe because it gives away the impression that its so non-conformist and so normal and intuitive at the same time. I know you're sane and brilliant individual (no offence meant at all ), but the only polytheists I've had experience so far were, shall we say... light-minded. And that's why I find you so intriguing. To break away from the normal theist path and get into some "suspicious blasphemous" ideas, and keeping a clear head all the time (hmm, am I sure about this? ), talks to me about a girl radiating great individualism and freedom, but also holding some strong spiritual conscience inside. I would like to know more about that spiritual drive you feel/ what you've experienced, as you said, if you dont mind sharing with us.
(I agree completely with how you solved the tribe problem )
Now one question for you Khaelo: Do you believe in code ethics? That there are some principles that no matter what happens you wouldnt break.
And another one for you and whoever else cares to answer: What is the meaning of life? What you must do?
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted August 13, 2004 09:19 AM |
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Wow, doom, we've got am official philosopher here. Hats down, ladies and gentlemen.
Neah, no way. When I was at that age, I wanted to make a career out of this, but now I kinda grew up and I've got to my senses. It's not a good job you know. At least here, it does not get payed well. You have maybe a shot at becoming a teacher at the university when you are 80 years old, but, till then, you only get to "act" as a low class subsitute, and you get payed with about 80 euro a month. So there goes your career
As for "acting" as a true philosopher here, in romania, that's a no-no. The tot writers (if i can call them so) are so birocratic and wont accept newcomers in their "elite" society of dumb_lame_idealess_old_allzimer_folks. They write only crap (in my opinion, of course), they dont have an organised system of ideeas, nothing. But since our country lacks the most basic modern culture, they are considered geniuses. How lame can you get.
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First, let me tell you that Camus ("The Stranger") is on my schedule of books, so I cant comment about him until some time this autumn.
Hehehehe, Svarog, that book is only gonna be the beginning in your camus experience, trust me It's great. And, i might add, being a 90 pages (or so) novel, i think you can spare a day sooner than this autumn to read it and discuss it here. I look forward to it, since it's one of the most inspiring books i've read this far (note that not one of my favourites, but inspiring). Ok, im not gonna go deeper on this one, i'll spoil your fun.
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Now mixing Marx and Nietzsche, has always been a scary thought to me. It's like evil socialism, and to tell you the truth, whenever I see a picture of the man I feel like seeing the devil himself. Not that I dont think he made some excellent points, but somehow he went to the dark side, if you know what I mean.
True and not true. See, most people would regard both Marx and nietzsche with fear. That's a mistake. Why fear them, they are long dead. Even the mix, it's not scary, but intriguing. As you may know, I am a strange mix of extremism: I like Marx a lot, I like Nietzsche a lot (still, he is NOT an extremist, he's more like inovative), Che, Engels, Hitler, Mao, I've red them all. I like to take small pieces of wisdom from all of them and mix them together. It's not a head-in-the-head ideea. Par example: Marx and Engels are said to be the Big Parents of Communism. Well, at the point when they elaborated the ideea of communism, it was totally diffrent then our own experience with soviet communism. Or, more likely, marxism-stalinism, and marxism-leninism. If people would concentrate a little more on what marx and engels wrote, and then compare that with what was practiced in eastern european countries during our comm stage, they probably would see the BIG difference. Actually, theoretically, communism is the most social and good hearted of all doctrines. And for those who will curse me for saying that, just look at what marxism specifies as it's prerogatives.. From communism, I have allways liked the way of minimalising personalities and the individualities. I think it's a great acomplish, even if the way it was implemend is considered... inhuman. But it's a nice one, if only for the record.
Nietzsche, on the other hand, was an idealistic bastard who had absolutely no chace of making a point in those days. Today, many of his readers are teens who think it's "cool" to read nietzsche, it's "cool" to be an outcast, it's "cool" to not be like the others. I laugh at that. Nietzsche is much more. Some know him only from his pompous remark "God is dead", but I guess most don't know what that ment, placed into context. And many more would know him for his so "cool" entitled book, the anticrist. That is also "cool" nowadays, being a dude liking the ideea of antichrist. I am not saying that i do not respect atheism, in fact i am sort of an atheist myself, but i hate people who are atheists but don't know squat about it. You know, like "OMG, 4th31sm pwnz", and that sort of stuff. Nietzsche had a great vision of mankind and of it's evolution. It was a darkened one, but he did not fell onto the dark side, as you say. Or at least, i don't think he did. He actually was a beliver in God, like his father, who was a priest. He followed teology for some time, but he found flaws in the world surrounding him and, especially after the death of his father (who died in misterious circumstances, btw), he decided to make better of himself and started analising the world at it's veriest core, the human being. His work is about morale, (not kantian morale, buahh), a morale of slaves vs a morale of masters. It's a very rational theory, actually, and can be used in certain disciplines, like manipulation and negotiation. His aim was to change the values (both cultural and social) that people belived in, because he thought it was a must. And i agree with him. Just take, for example, the "cool" trend of music nowadays. Nobody ever listens to clasical anymore (I refer to the masses), it's all about enrique now. How lame and pittiful.
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Or if you like we can dissect Nietzsche and reveal his evil-doings to the rest of the people here.
yeah we can do that, except he didn't had any
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But not Plato, please. That guy was one of the most delusioned men in the history of humankind. I wonder how you can find similarities with him.
Heh, I know. Put placing his theories back two tousand years back they kinda make sense, don't you think?
OK, that's all for now, it's too early to think more about this stuff I hope you like it.
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Wiseman
Known Hero
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posted August 13, 2004 10:34 AM |
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And another one for you and whoever else cares to answer: What is the meaning of life?
42
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What you must do?
You don`t have to do anything but die eventually.
And that is only providing you have been born in the first place.Of course many believe there is no you if
you are not born.
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Truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted August 15, 2004 02:54 AM |
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From communism, I have always liked the way of minimalising personalities and the individualities.
You wicked. That’s one of the few things about communism that I don’t like (if not the only one). Minimizing the individual to the point of being just a part of the whole society was a thing that arose in the Eastern European Communist practice. It was not included in the Marxist communist theories (at least explicitly), but they never excluded the theoretical base for such a doctrine also. Still, there are scholars today which oppose this and acknowledge the importance of the self-realized individual in the society of although equal, yet different individuals. I wholeheartedly agree.
It was that exact practice which limited creativity in the socialist societies, and consequently the economy suffered. I cant tell one good thing that might come from that, except maybe the identification with the community, but imo that can be achieved without acting commie drones.
I suppose you have experience with the soc-realist architecture that was in charge during the old days (if you don’t even live in one). Many people call it ugly, gray, dull etc. Beside the practical reasons for building those massive and frightening buildings (saving money; after all it was given free to people), there was an ideological one. How do you feel standing next to (or inside) building whose first floor is 10 meters tall, with huge columns, the vast room looking frighteningly tremendous, devoid of all details which might add to its “friendly and humane” appearance? Exactly, so unimportant, like a miniature. And there’s one aesthetical reason more to dislike that part about communism.
Nietzsche was a believer in God? I didn’t know that, although it doesn’t matter really, since he rejected the Christian ethics and its teachings.
What I like about Nietzsche is the way he analyzed society and revealed the two groups, or classes, the “slaves” and “the masters”, that consisted the dialectical opposite. Very much like Marx, if you think about it.
But unlike Marx he stood for the wrong side. He never wanted to help the oppressed group. Instead, he proclaimed that the ultimate objective of man is to become an Ubermann. Complete individual freedom, not to obey the norms, in a way would make you an Ubermann. That would go together with the acceptance of the “morale of the master”. Now comes the scary part. Those that are still trapped following the slave morale, don’t deserve to release themselves. They should remain slaves and in that way he supported the class division. He was horrified of the communist idea that workers would prevail, and put his effort into ensuring that that would never happen.
He justified the manipulation with the masses as means of maintaining the existing order.
How you agree with such philosophy? Admitting the genius of Nietzsche is one thing (concerning his insight in the class division), but agreeing with him, for the ideas that he stood for is in direct juxta-position with the socialist ideas of equality and non-existence of classes. That is why I cant understand where you find the connection between Marx and Nietzsche.
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And another one for you and whoever else cares to answer: What is the meaning of life?
42
Well, if we go with numbers already, I would say 69.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted August 17, 2004 11:28 PM |
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...I know you're sane and brilliant individual (no offence meant at all ), but the only polytheists I've had experience so far were, shall we say... light-minded. ...I would like to know more about that spiritual drive you feel/ what you've experienced, as you said, if you dont mind sharing with us...
Thanks for your kind comments. I wish I could communicate the drive, but spiritual experiences are really hard to put into words.  It never comes out the way it truly was.
In the pagan community, "light-minded" people are known as "fluff bunnies," and they are quite annoying. A lot of them are rebellious teenagers who have discovered the "witch-in-a-box" kits that are easily available courtesy of certain popular authors. Light-mindedness is one problem; rampant commercialism is a related issue. However, given some of the nuts that larger religions must cope with, I think fluff bunnies are pretty harmless. Then again, I'm not Wiccan, so it's not technically my faith that's getting swamped. That's a whole topic unto itself.
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Do you believe in code ethics? That there are some principles that no matter what happens you wouldnt break.
In short, no, I don't believe in code ethics. There are some things I cannot imagine myself doing (killing another person rather than dying myself, for instance), but that's A) just me and B) not set in stone, seeing as the situation has never come up. I do believe in wrong-doing and evil to some extent, but they're not so easily defined and identified as codes would suggest. Also, they are pretty much confined to societies; the universe at large is amoral.
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And another one for you and whoever else cares to answer: What is the meaning of life? What you must do?
Life has no meaning outside of that which is assigned to it. Life is a phenomenon, a greater force, and its individual manifestations aren't inherently important. If we want to be meaningful as individuals, we have to seek out and/or accept a purpose for ourselves. Personally, I have done so in my devotion to a patron god, but that's just one way of going about it.
My computer's battery is about to die, so this post must be done.
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 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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