|
| Thread: Debate: Homosexuality is genetic in origin |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
posted December 20, 2004 03:47 AM |
|
|
So your not real Rog?
Are you an imaginary person 
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted December 21, 2004 04:10 AM |
|
Edited By: Consis on 20 Dec 2004
|
Details of My Disagreement
Quote:
This time I promise I will not be so long and second, nothing from what I say is based on scientific researches but on pure logic.
This seems an especially costly wager considering the outcome of such an opinion could contribute to ignorance. Ignorance breeds hatred in my opinion. And what is your definition of the word, "logic"? **scratches head and looks confused**
Quote:
Researches, however, show that between 10 and 11% of the population in the world is gay. What does that mean? It means one in ten people.
Here is where I feel hypocrasy leaps toward the reader. To initially state that you aren't going to use scientific research(which I find deplorable to begin with) and then immediately afterward start with some study of gay people, not simply a community or state but the entire world, invites a mental breakdown of me trying to understand your so-called logic.
Quote:
There are two aspects of attraction - mental and physical.
I find this statement to be more indicative of secular religious thinking, or rigid to say the least. You forget the spiritual. Many people believe(probably outside your secular group of friends) that their relationships go beyond physical and mental reaching to a level that cannot be broken by the will of mankind, in fact pre-ordained by God even. I can't say whether this is possible but it is without question that many people believe such a relationship exists.
Quote:
Disappointment in the opposite gender can make people turn to their own for a change
If someone is disheartened by a handful of men(for example) and they elevate these poor relationships to all men everywhere in the world then I think this person is fond of broad generalizations(to which both I and many others are on an intellectual crusade against).
Quote:
I've lived in a gay town and I've listened to millions of stories.
Millions? Really?
Quote:
Yet to answer such a complicated question... even scientists can't. How could you give a simple answer: yes or not? Things are never black or white.
Finally, at the end of your post do I find the resounding reason and true logic. Scientists can no more conduct such a study(of any real merit) of heterosexual people than they could of homosexual people.
To be honest, I very much enjoyed reading your thoughts and ideas detailing human pheromones and their possible influences on attraction between people. But to say you aren't going to use science, or studies, or widely accepted research and then proceed to quote a study seems down-right hypocritical to me. And then to go and say something as confusing as I won't use science but only my logic instead? I think your use of the word "logic" is highly subjective which we all know completely contraindicates the meaning of the word.
____________
Roses Are Red And So Am I
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted December 21, 2004 05:16 AM |
|
|
Dude you need to quit your so called rocket scientific mind & shut it.
You think your better then all of us here because she said Logic.
Who cares man then you say shes being ignorant a religious way of thinking then Phisical & Mental.
what do you think Mental is?
Then you mock because you hear stories.
Sorry your stuck in your own Rich COllege degree world but you can learn alot from actual people.
Ignorance & then it leads to hatred, so why are you insinuating, that shes ignorant.
Pretty insulting to me if you told me that.
You be surprised how much you can learn from people.
Just because thier not as great & fancy as you are in your own mind, it donr mean we dont know what were talking about.
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
|
|
pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
|
|
posted December 21, 2004 06:37 AM |
|
|
Consis, I think that your recent postings against Lady_Milena have been crossing the line.
It is perfectly acceptable for you to disagree with any member as you so choose - but please do so in a manner that is not personally hurtful to the poster.
From what I am reading you are disagreeing with her way of discussing her opinions, and the manner in which she backs up her arguements. I really don't think its fair to discourage anyone from posting because what and how they are posting does not suit your own style.
I understand that as you said "you speak from the heart" and I'm not asking that you pretend to be someone you are not, but I am asking that you respect other people's rights to an opinion - even when you cannot find a way to agree with it.
Aculias, I know that you are trying to defend Lady_Milena here and that you're another who speaks from the heart - but your posts against Consis too have been crossing the line.
Please try to find a way to communicate without attacking each other.
a quick quote:
Quote:
Insults are not allowed at Heroes Community. Insult is any remark that undermines the persona of another member. Whether censored or not, posting insults will attract a warning and then a penalty. A simple way to avoid insulting people is to discuss their actions rather than their personality. For example: rather than saying who they are, "you suck" or "you are a .....", say what you think about what they've done and why you think that, for example "I think your accusation is inaccurate because (facts)".
____________
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted December 21, 2004 06:45 AM |
|
Edited By: Consis on 21 Dec 2004
|
Aculias,
Quote:
Dude you need to quit your so called rocket scientific mind & shut it.
And who ever said I have a 'rocket scientific mind'? It certainly wasn't me.
Quote:
You think your better then all of us here
No I don't!
Quote:
Who cares man then you say shes being ignorant a religious way of thinking then Phisical & Mental.
what do you think Mental is?
Actually what I said was she had conveniently seemed to have forgotten the spiritual side human beings.
Quote:
Sorry your stuck in your own Rich COllege degree world but you can learn alot from actual people.
College degree? I don't have a degree of education extending past 12th grade i.e. Highschool. I too am an 'actual person' by your definition. I actually have three small children whose diapers I change, mouths I feed, and disasters I clean up after.
Quote:
Ignorance & then it leads to hatred, so why are you insinuating, that shes ignorant.
I'm not. I'm saying that if a person freely chooses to exclude certain absolutes in life then they may make an ill-informed decision that may lead to the harm of other people. I am defining the other people as those that consider themselves homosexual.
Quote:
You be surprised how much you can learn from people.
I am surprised every day and I am filled with a tremendous sense of duty to protect such noble individuals. To me, if you really want to protect someone then you must educate yourself to the best of your ability and then apply that knowledge in the greatest degree of consideration for the people you intend to protect. I want to protect people claiming to be homosexual and I refuse to sit by and watch someone deliver a secular thought process. That's right-wing nonsense!
Quote:
Just because they're not as great & fancy as you are in your own mind, it don't mean we dont know what were talking about.
Aculias, listen to what I tell you right now. I am no better than anyone else. In fact I personally invite you to dinner in my own private abode. You are welcome to come to my house in Oregon any time you wish to see for yourself the man behind my avatar. I will welcome you as an equal and nothing less. My wife and I will cook a grand dinner for you and you will see my children and my cat and know what kind of a person I truly am. Until then, I hope to prove to you that I am no better than anyone else.
____________
Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted December 21, 2004 07:29 AM |
|
|
All I am saying is think about what others may say.
You may be surprised how much people really know.
Not everythang you see around you have to be a scientific fact.
Sometimes truth evolves more then around Science or any other kind.
I know you didnt go to college & all till now but dont act like it like if we dont know whats up.
Trust me Bachlor you be surprised how Nice Archie Bunker really is lol.
Trust me on this too.People exp thangs in life which share into stories we all can learn from,We all go through hell, some even more.
Even if they dont even have a high school diploma, you can still learn a great deal from them.
Open your eyes to more facts because,sometimes people know more then what you read in books 
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
|
|
Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
|
posted December 21, 2004 08:24 AM |
|
|
Question here...
Quote:
I personally invite you to dinner in my own private abode. You are welcome to come to my house in Oregon any time you wish to see for yourself the man behind my avatar. I will welcome you as an equal and nothing less. My wife and I will cook a grand dinner for you and you will see my children and my cat and know what kind of a person I truly am.
Uhmmm, can I cash in on this invitation or do I first have to question your morality, ethics, responsibility, intelligence, education, etc...? Actually, nevermind Consis, you have a cat and I am allergic. (Weird, eh? Considering I am a Lion )
Seriously though, you guys both had good points in your earlier heated arguments. Consis, I like how you explained that attraction is not always a Physical or Mental phenomenon, but can also take place on a Spiritual level and might actually be pre-determined before birth. This is a belief I hold to dearly and which I explained in my first Post in this Thread.  Although Svarog disagreed with me.
Aculias, you also brought up a very good point when you said that much can be gained through experience. I totally agree with this approach: "Actions speak louder than words", "You don't really know someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes", & "If knowledge is power, than experience is All-Mighty!"
____________
*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
|
posted December 22, 2004 03:09 AM |
|
|
If I didn’t know you better Consis, I’d say you’re doing this on purpose, because you have something strongly against Milena.
What is your point really? First, you argue that her post has to be scientifically supported, and just then you say that homosexuality constitutes of spiritual element, as well as mental and physical attraction. How scientific is that for a start? 
Quote:
I want to protect people claiming to be homosexual and I refuse to sit by and watch someone deliver a secular thought process. That's right-wing nonsense!
One word: HUH?! There are three contradictions here in this very sentense. Just so you know, secular and right-wing don’t go together. Secular is something devoid of religious influences, meaning not right-wing, non-religious, i.e. in our case, totally gay-friendly.
On the other hand, everything that Milena said is based on some sort of scientific observations (looking at the gay figures and various patterns of social/biological behavior and drawing conclusions from it). Just because she didn’t include exact research numbers (who does?) doesn’t make the opinion any less valid.
If you feel like you gotta jump over something Consis, at least take specific arguments and handle them properly. And not in this, I must say, incredibly infantile manner.
Posts and attitudes like this are what drives people away from the community. Instead of wishing her a warm welcome as an old respected member, and encourige her to post more, you do something so irrational whose purpose no one understands.
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
|
posted December 22, 2004 06:17 AM |
|
Edited By: Consis on 22 Dec 2004
|
Svarog,
Quote:
If I didn’t know you better Consis, I’d say you’re doing this on purpose, because you have something strongly against Milena.
I confess...it's true. But I've already spoken to Pandora about the details so I'd rather not say them again.
And I see how you might not understand my use of the word 'right-wing' in conjunction with 'secularism'. I'll explain. Here in america the political-right has a devoted base group of voters who nearly always vote the same way on just about every issue. This base group, or 'sect' if you will, of people are classified as conservative christians. These are the sorts of people that would've voted in favor of the prohibition act of 1920. It's a ridiculous philosophy that's been proven wrong time and again. I call these people secular because they elevate their religious extremism to political sway. And as you know I come from Texas where some people actually refer to themselves as "good christian people" or secularists. They don't like interacting with foreigners at all. That's why they've come to be known as such. Some become so driven to isolation that their community will deem them to be a 'cult'.
So you see I have a personal relation to growing up around such people. I absolutely despise this sort right-wing philosophy. As I've said before in the Gay thread, I've known people, with cruelty and malice planted deep in their hearts, who go out in groups to intentionally physically maim and disfigure innocent people. Whenever I hear someone say "good-christian people" I very nearly vomit from utter abhorrence.
____________
Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted December 22, 2004 07:02 AM |
|
|
We should make a statue out of you Consis 
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
|
|
Lady_Milena
Honorable
Known Hero
Grannie Sweet Cheeks
|
|
posted December 22, 2004 09:51 AM |
|
|
I was going to abstain
from any further comments but I can't help it. Consis, if you have a problem with me, I suppose that speaking to me instead of Pandora may solve the issue faster and in a more effective manner. I refuse to reply further to this thread because I feel that not my point is being attacked my myself as a person.
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted December 22, 2004 03:38 PM |
|
|
I'm Done Too
You don't have to worry Lady_Milena, I quit this thread too. Post all you want. I'm not posting in it anymore.
____________
Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
|
posted December 22, 2004 03:39 PM |
|
|
Quote:
And I see how you might not understand my use of the word 'right-wing' in conjunction with 'secularism'. I'll explain. Here in america the political-right has a devoted base group of voters who nearly always vote the same way on just about every issue. This base group, or 'sect' if you will, of people are classified as conservative christians. These are the sorts of people that would've voted in favor of the prohibition act of 1920. It's a ridiculous philosophy that's been proven wrong time and again. I call these people secular because they elevate their religious extremism to political sway. And as you know I come from Texas where some people actually refer to themselves as "good christian people" or secularists. They don't like interacting with foreigners at all. That's why they've come to be known as such. Some become so driven to isolation that their community will deem them to be a 'cult'.
So you see I have a personal relation to growing up around such people. I absolutely despise this sort right-wing philosophy. As I've said before in the Gay thread, I've known people, with cruelty and malice planted deep in their hearts, who go out in groups to intentionally physically maim and disfigure innocent people. Whenever I hear someone say "good-christian people" I very nearly vomit from utter abhorrence.
Thats all good, but if you checked definition for secular you'd see that u've been using it in the opposite meaning all along.
And I still wonder what made you interpret Milena's post as "good christian" one? Of course, I cant know, because what you did all the time was ad hominem attacks, not real evaluation and criticism of what she said.
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
Lady_Milena
Honorable
Known Hero
Grannie Sweet Cheeks
|
|
posted December 22, 2004 10:19 PM |
|
|
Having in mind I'm not Christian and in fact I've chosen the career of a minister for said faith, I do not understand how anyone would find whatever I said as genuinely Christian. Must be some coincidence of ideas.
As for you, Consis, posting in this thread or not, an approach fitting a father of three (supposedly an intelligent and reliable person) and a mature man is to be frank and speak openly - in private. If you never voice what aggravates you in others, in a polite and nice way - they are never going to go out of their way to make you feel better.
My beliefs are these because of who I am. I'm homosexual? Go sue me. I have my point of view? Prove me wrong. I'm blunt and arrogant? I'm not flawless. Even if you dislike these things about me, I'm not going to start liking men more, will still have opinions, will still stand my ground. However, if you never tell me, I'll never even care what you think.
____________
God does not need exist to save us...
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
posted December 23, 2004 01:53 AM |
|
|
How could I have missed the irony of it all
Quote:
I want to protect people claiming to be homosexual and I refuse to sit by and watch someone deliver a secular thought process.
Consis, who happens to have voted in favor of the amandment breaching homosexual marriage rights, is on a holy crusade to protect homosexuals agenda from Milena, who happens to be... believe it or not, homosexual.
Absolutely fascinating
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted December 23, 2004 04:08 AM |
|
|
Yalls need to IM each other & take a chill pill.
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
|
| |
|
|
