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| Thread: After being defeated dramatically "2 ideas" come to my mind! | |
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demogorgon
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 15, 2004 03:10 AM |
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After being defeated dramatically
Ok, these ideas come to my mind right after my friend virtually crushed me in a random map for HOMM3...
Note: Just drafts I have here.Nothing like big proposals some of you have..So don't blame me for not being spesific!
1- REBUILDING/RECONSTRUCTING/CONVERTING/MANUPILATING A TOWN (You name it)
My friend simply surpassed me with his 1+3 towers he captured even tho I had captured more towns earlier in the game..... Too bad I had 4 different type of towns and there were not any castles except mine!
the idea may sound silly, I don't know. But say a "Cleric" captures an undead town..What if (s)he could be able to rebuild/convert/manipulate that town for certain amount resources in certain amount of time without being able to build anything in that town during the reconstruction period (starting at day 3 of the capture + construction could last for 3 weeks) ? And of course there could be some prerequisites, like you could need a "builder" type level 10 hero(or whatever level , I am just throwing up ideas here) garrisoning during the reconstructing phase. Level 1 "builder" could only build upto archers tower and guardhouse. Level 2 could build upto griffin tower and so on...
So converting a town would be a tough decision in the game.
You could lose the town before you are able to complete the rebuilding process(but the guy who captures it back would need to repair it)..
A town could be completely rebuilt only "once"..
You'd need to forget about the creatures you could recruit in the undead town in 3 weeks.
You'll need to stay around that town you are rebuilding because of all that resources you put into it... and sure you'll need and army for defensing manners...
right now, it sounds like "rebuilding" would be a very strategical option... You could both lose or win a map depending on how good strategist you are...
I did not think about other towns yet..But of course only certain types of towns could be rebuilt by only certain type of heroes.. For instance a human "builder" can't convert a "Stronghold" into Castle while an Elf builder can...(you may say why not? Because this is not an idea for simcity 5. No need to dig that deep)
2 - BORDER LINES! NEW SOURCE OF INCOME!
After being defeated I did what a defeated honorable man would do.. I blamed the map and offered a replay to my friend  We started playing another random XL map.. It seems today was his lucky day... To find an another town I had to explore 4/10 of the map ... At the same time he had been enjoying the gold(resources) coming from his 4 towns total...I don't even mention the logistic advantage of his towns being close to each other...
Here is the thing,
I don't like H4 and I don't like the idea "fog of war"! But what if there could be a thing like fog of war in the game that sets your "kingdom borders". The more land you capture, the more gold you make... that would encourage exploring the whole map and agressive play.
Only you could see your border lines and you couldn't be able to see other players border lines. your kingdom expands as you explore more areas.If you "accidentally" or "by purpose" invade an enemy territory his/her lands become yours and you get the gold generated from those areas... Tracking the borderlines wouldn't be difficult. It could work very similar to the way "Fog of war" works.. But it leaves a trail of your kingdom color behind instead of invisible areas...
The amount of gold you can collect could be "X golds" per day for every "Y squares" of land you invade/explore. If some of you ask "what is the source of that gold", I would say "taxes".... and the things could get even more complicated, like you could define "rich" and "poor" areas in the map editor.. fighting for "land" could be intersting..
and you could decrease or increase the "tax" amount per X square of land in the "map editor".
Anyways, I have just 2 ideas here you are the ones who'll decide if they are good or bad...
take care.
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Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
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posted October 15, 2004 03:49 AM |
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Why not just make 4 heroes, one for each town? I mean it's not as good as 3 towns of the same type, but you'll have more flexibility...
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Knowledge is power...
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demogorgon
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 15, 2004 04:29 AM |
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I did, had no other option. But he got stronger and stronger....
Well neither I nor him are newcomers (we are not gurus as well).... I did my best in such a map..He is not a 15 year old kid. He simply let me capture his towns without hesitation knowing that he can get back in one week with a hero chain. He recruited his troops at day one and run away everytime... When he's back with his main hero I had to flee as he was way strong... the game was going no where so I attacked with everything I have and barely able to kill his nagas I could beat him if he'd play more agressive tho..
the issue here is not "liking or disliking" the "random map" concept!. I like random maps..
However, when you spend your hours playing HOMM for nothing but certain death then you start thinking like "hmm could it be more fair?"
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted October 15, 2004 09:53 AM |
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1. Yes, inability to combine different armies is a big downside of homm structure, and hard to fix it. If they open more unit slots for heroes, players will probably gather everything to 1 hero... even more. Conversion may be a good idea.
2. I like fog of war. Without it, Scouting skill is next to useless. Also Lookout tower is of little use without fow.
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted October 15, 2004 04:29 PM |
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1- REBUILDING/RECONSTRUCTING/CONVERTING/MANUPILATING A TOWN
on one hand destroying what others have built doesn't sound like an extremely heroic deed imho, on the other hand maybe undead buildings should be destroyed automatically when human town type player conquers and undead town, sort of like cleansing the land of impurities. on the other nad of the other hand, humans should have nothing against graveyards and mausoleums if the dead rested in peace.
there could be the alternative that some duildings (or creatures you can recruit) in a town would depend on town type and some buildings depend on which town type player owns the castle.
there was a time when i played homm3 fortress and got a few wyverns and fought my way to a few first towns without losses. i built the conquered towns and never cared for my fortress starting town. i don't really know if this was an artifact of game rules or not. the new towns were under the rule of fortress, maybe they should have been less loyal or something?
2 - BORDER LINES! NEW SOURCE OF INCOME!
Quote:
But what if there could be a thing like fog of war in the game that sets your "kingdom borders". The more land you capture, the more gold you make... that would encourage exploring the whole map and agressive play.
seems to be more or less like my own thoughts in The Adventure Map thread. except that i would associate the tax-paying land with castles rather than area of vision of some accidental trespassing hero. and i would also relate the number of creatures you can recruit with territory (population) that is associated with the castle.
it would get rid of some of the famous homm simplicity, though. but it seems that people have become interested in reducing the simplicity anyway, maybe that's why they introduce things like wait in battles. i think that going towards more complexity in the strategy part of the game instead of introducing often artifact-like battle tactics might be something to consider.
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LashtonBryth
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 20, 2004 07:52 PM |
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Let me explain something to you Heroes people. The true strategy of the game can only be appreciated on impossible level. In a one on one game, it should be random maps, medium sized, on impossible difficulty. Here is why: All towns are not created equally. The Tower is a more powerful town than the Barbarian if they are allowed to build at the same rate. However, on impossible difficulty, the Barbarian is able to build his first 5 creatures using just wood and ore. The Tower needs 5 of each resource just to get their 4th level creature. This helps to balance out the difference in the towns by introducing the speed at which a town can build. The weaker towns (Barbarian, Fortress) can compete with the stronger towns (Tower, Castle) by building faster and producing powerful creatures earlier.
Playing in a match where towns start with money and resources takes a lot of the skill out of the game. The winner is usually map based or town based since everyone has resources. On impossible difficulty, you have to fight with your first 2 level creatures and lose men in order to get resources. You take treasure chests for money on impossible level instead of experience.
The size of the map also affects the balance of the game. An extra large map offers too many resources and gold to keep towns even. A medium map is small enough that you can't explore out overly far without endangering yourself. Just try it and see what I mean.
1v1 - medium map, impossible difficulty, random town, random map
2v2 - large map, impossible difficulty, random town, random map
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demogorgon
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 26, 2004 09:02 PM |
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Sorry for the late reply ,
Quote:
on one hand destroying what others have built doesn't sound like an extremely heroic deed imho, on the other hand maybe undead buildings should be destroyed automatically when human town type player conquers and undead town, sort of like cleansing the land of impurities. on the other nad of the other hand, humans should have nothing against graveyards and mausoleums if the dead rested in peace.
Well, destroying what others have built may not sound heroic. But if you are at war you could simply use the "resources" of the captured lands, no? These resources could be gold, gems etc but the castles and recruits are also resources.. I have never heard a war where there is no damage to the buildings which others had built... For instance,in the age of sattelites and nuclear submarines, if you capture an enemy factory which manufactures planes then you manipulate it so that you can make your own planes. At the end you are fighting against your own "evil" opponent...
Also, the undead graveyards are not among the holy places. They generate so called "fallen" creatures... Destroying them should be a duty for the mankind!.. And, for instance, elves could destroy "inferno" buildings because of the damage they have done to the nature.I mean if you seek a reason there will be more than one..
2 - BORDER LINES! NEW SOURCE OF INCOME!
Quote:
seems to be more or less like my own thoughts in [url=http://www.heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=5&TID=13327]The Adventure Map[/url] thread. except that i would associate the tax-paying land with castles rather than area of vision of some accidental trespassing hero. and i would also relate the number of creatures you can recruit with territory (population) that is associated with the castle.
I have read your post... Your ideas make sense to me. Except, there is actually no tresspassing hero in HOMM.Because if a hero (strong or weak) explores a land then that land belongs to the kingdom of the hero!... The whole adventure map is battlefield! Also, we should not forget that not all the people live in the castles... the more you land you capture the more population you'd have.. (that was how the things worked in the middleages)... I think it would be better associating both tax and population with the domain of the kingdom and the type of the terrains you own! For instance, desert areas could generate 1/5 of gold and population compared to grass...
In short, I support your tax idea as well...
One way or another HOMM requires more depth!..
For somereason I beleive HOMM V adventure map will be like "TOTAL WAR" series.. Especially the latest "ROME total war!" I played.. For those who don't know TW, it is both a turn based and a real time strategy game. You play the adventure map in turns and you fight the battles real time!. Really kickass game imo!.. Anyways, check out the adventure map screenshots, I beleive we are going to see such stuff in HOMM 5 (especially the 3d perspective... Also the cities the graphics etc will be bigger than this for sure )
All screenshots
http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/498/498739/imgs_1.html?ui=gamefinder
A adventure map SS
http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/498/498739/img_2379101.html
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igoraki
Hired Hero
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posted October 27, 2004 01:34 PM |
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i just hope ubi wouldnt go for real time action in heroes V
that would be too much for me...
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demogorgon
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 27, 2004 10:28 PM |
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Yes, same here. I don't think HOMM will go real time ever.. But if you play Total war, its adventure map and some minor aspects of the whole game contain smilarities with HOMM.. Real time battles tastes good in Total War but it wouldn't wise to use real time battles in HOMM. Each game has its own appeal..
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DARKMASTER
Hired Hero
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posted October 28, 2004 04:21 AM |
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Dont make HOMM realtime. Rather make a spin-off game so youll be sure not to snow up the fans. yeah i said snow
snowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnow
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted October 28, 2004 03:06 PM |
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could someone point out who and where said he wanted real time battles in homm?
what are we talking about here?
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DARKMASTER
Hired Hero
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posted October 31, 2004 05:26 AM |
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YOUR gender and wich gender you are atracted too.Tóuche
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=6]Library Of Enlightenment[/url], to discuss Heroes 4, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=17]War Room Of Axeoth[/url], to discuss Heroes 5, go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=1]Temple Of Ashan[/url].
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