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| Thread: First Day Rush |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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LordLazy
Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
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posted January 18, 2005 11:20 AM |
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this was indeed just an example, imagine your hero with log and pathfinding in treasure area of blockbuster, using the scouts for exploration then, would seriously hamper your scouting abilities, as they simply wont move long enough
I cant remember last time I played without this strategy ruled out, and have then been able to use my main to its full advantage there, as long as i have most of my army and have knowledge of wether or not I'm superiour stats wise.
Edit: I forgot to think about the fact that view air/earth of course also can prevent such rushing strategies, but still, mainly wether or not this rush is prevented, its still lame to abuse such an advantage imo
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Tagged officially as Noobegian two years ago. This typographic material is strictly copyrighted. All situations containing abuse will be brought to court.
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 18, 2005 04:12 PM |
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Edited By: Conan on 18 Jan 2005
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Some people think we are talking about a castle that is one move distance from your own town.
We are not...
We are talking of an enemy castle maybe at 3 days move but to which you have chained an army on purpose to get this disadvantage on day 1 of any week. You have to plan this out on day 6 or 7 of the previous week for it to work. IMO, if you plan to take advantage of a bug in the game, you are not honorable.
If I find out I can get to my enemy town day 1 week 1 I will start over, but not if I find out I can get there day 4 or 5.
EDIT: Considering the votes, I find it sad that some people think this is not a bug. Think of it this way, do you think the programmers planned this? if so, why?
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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Zsa
Famous Hero
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posted January 18, 2005 04:38 PM |
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1st day rush
well no Conan, it's not a bug dude, there was no other way for the game to work like this in the current format.
Yes it is an advantage for the red player, but not as huge as some people see it.
If you go into an unknown area with your main hero and then get rushed, you definetly did something wrong  . First day rushes don't usually succeed on random maps that well except for attacking main towns. Making a hero 1st day rush is very situational and is usually possible with a big mistake from the opponent (or you having gunnar with boots of speed and gloves  ).
The most common ways to stop a first day rush are:
1. kill one of the sec heroes from the chain
2. attack the main hero before the new week if you think you can take him down
Otherwise, the advantage is not that big really. Attacking with a week worth of units vs defending in a castle. First day rush is just a way of forcing the opponent's hand in case you ALREADY have the advantage. Setting up a first day rush without you having the upper hand is pointless .
Also the blue player has some advantages himself that are more situational than the 1st day rush but someitmes more useful:
1. the mana recharge in castle doesn't work for the red player before the blue player's turn - i experienced first hand a couple of times how crappy it is.
2. in fighting for a town, a mine - if the blue player flags it during his turn the red player won't receive the bonus/income from the flagged building.
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 18, 2005 05:00 PM |
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Quote:
well no Conan, it's not a bug dude, there was no other way for the game to work like this in the current format.
Well, I am very confident that it was not noticed by the programmers at the time. If it had been, I really think it would not be the way we know it to be now and I think the format would be different. But we can agree to disagree. 
Quote:
Otherwise, the advantage is not that big really. Attacking with a week worth of units vs defending in a castle. First day rush is just a way of forcing the opponent's hand in case you ALREADY have the advantage. Setting up a first day rush without you having the upper hand is pointless .
Here too I have to disagree. If you are week 2 day 1 you should have about double the size of your enemy's army. That is a huge advantage.
In any case, there are alot of factors that affect the game, but in fights if everything else is equal, the one with more units (more hit points) usually wins hands down.
Quote:
Also the blue player has some advantages himself that are more situational than the 1st day rush but someitmes more useful:
1. the mana recharge in castle doesn't work for the red player before the blue player's turn - i experienced first hand a couple of times how crappy it is.
2. in fighting for a town, a mine - if the blue player flags it during his turn the red player won't receive the bonus/income from the flagged building.
Interesting. Very nice to know. - Thanks.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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kwahraps
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 18, 2005 05:49 PM |
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There could be a situation where a road connects you and your opponents towns, 2 days apart on day 1. Let's say the road is blocked by lots of gold golems. There could be a prison located along the road, just short of the block.
If your main hero can reach the prison, let out a decent hero, the hero can then transfer all troops, march through the block with the new hero, and then hit the enemy town.
What if the hero was level 5 or level 10 with expert earth? Expert archery?? Expert logisitics? The layout would have to be perfect, but it could happen.
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Zsa
Famous Hero
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posted January 18, 2005 07:55 PM |
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Yeah but consider the posibility of that happening. I've been playing heroes III for 5 years on and off, mostly random maps, and that situation never ocurred to me.
That's a situation that will end day 1 anyway, so what do you care, the game will end before it started and you didn't waste much time anyway  .
Earliest meet in the game for me was a day 2 meeting on cobblestone, and that game was over by the end of the first week .
And Conan, of course they knew about the first day rush issue. It's pretty evident you know. They knew of hit and run from heroes 2 too, but they didn't do anything about it either.
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Rage08
Famous Hero
Making it in the real world
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posted January 18, 2005 08:50 PM |
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I imagine the creators of this game know all aspects of it from front to back... and probably, in their eyes, the game is balanced... of course nobody's perfect, but I think this game has had amazing amounts of thought put into it to make it an enjoyable relatively balanced game...
Maybe they figure if we can find out these "bugs" or whatever you want to call them, then we deserve to be able to use them... of course, I don't want to put words into their mouth, but just a thought...
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted January 19, 2005 02:35 AM |
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These "rule outs" are just aspects of the game that some (most) players are uncomfortable dealing with. Perfectly legitimate to use, if you ask me.
But when u take out those, u get a game where offense and armor is the only thing u need to win, and of course, magic heroes suck.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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zsa
Famous Hero
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posted January 19, 2005 02:54 AM |
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Quote:
These "rule outs" are just aspects of the game that some (most) players are uncomfortable dealing with. Perfectly legitimate to use, if you ask me.
But when u take out those, u get a game where offense and armor is the only thing u need to win, and of course, magic heroes suck.
i agree and disagree at the same time .
I want to play with as few rules as possible, but it is sometimes impossible to play without some rules on randoms. I usually like to play with first day rush, hit n run and other stuff like this. Other things tho, like diplomacy, hill fort or spell scrolls above a certain level are just a joke. If you get an implosion scroll defended by horde of centaurs, it's kinda retarded. And this thing doesn't occur like once in a blue moon. It has happened to me two times already.
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 19, 2005 02:55 AM |
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Zsa already made some good points that counterbalance the red advantage to some extend. The mana recharge is very much in blue´s favour. When you rest in a castle or town, and the other player attacks, having 100 or 0 spellpoints is a question of life and death.
Another one is the money recharge. During red´s turn, blue has his daily income available already. This gives him a much better chance of surrendering, if necessary.
I think there was one more point for blue, but I don´t remember - haven´t played the game for more than a year. But when I was an active player, I always disliked the no-red-rush rule. Not only because it did some unpleasant damage to the players´ autonomy, but also because it was my opinion that blue´s advantage in games with this rule is no smaller - probably larger, than red´s advantage without.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted January 19, 2005 03:31 AM |
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Quote:
Other things tho, like diplomacy, hill fort or spell scrolls above a certain level are just a joke. If you get an implosion scroll defended by horde of centaurs, it's kinda retarded. And this thing doesn't occur like once in a blue moon. It has happened to me two times already.
Agreed absolutely about the lev5 scrolls and the hill fort. I was talking about no hit'n'run, no level4 spell specialists, no fly, no dimension, no necro, no diplomacy (that too), no this hero, no that spell, no attacks first week, no castle-sitting, no catapult destroying etc.
sorry for defocusing the discussion. i stop.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Nebuka
Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
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posted January 21, 2005 08:06 PM |
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Lol Svarog, if all those other things are fine with you, how the hell can you be bothered by lv5 spells or hillfort?
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted January 21, 2005 08:13 PM |
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You can have all spellscrolls u can find, when i can have diplomacy on EXTREME II....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted January 23, 2005 09:42 AM |
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speaking of extreme 2, i had a game this week-end(started friday and finished saturday) on that template, a L game no under in a 1 on 1 game.As i had 2 necro towns week 1 i decided it might be a good ideea to build the army there as well cos i thought it will be helpfull in the end.By begining week 3 i realized it was a great decision:it seemed that all the pandora boxes had necro creatures as reward.I lost most of my rampart army fighting all those guards,but took care not to lose any of those necro fellows.Endfight was week 4 day 5, with me killing the other guy with dread knights/vamps/dragons and liches.
Just out of curiousity, is double build forbidden on this template?(acording to my oponent it is )
I didn't knew about this rule so we decided to make it a fun game instead of ToH as planed.
I can't really follow the logic of those templates:extreme and extreme II;people try to rule necro out of the game, but on the other hand they design "necro" templates.
just my two cents.
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Nebuka
Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
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posted January 23, 2005 07:53 PM |
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If you didn't ruled out before the game double build, then it's perfectly ok.
There are no set rules in this fine game.
What you agree, by that you play.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted January 24, 2005 07:52 AM |
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Quote:
I can't really follow the logic of those templates:extreme and extreme II;people try to rule necro out of the game, but on the other hand they design "necro" templates.
just my two cents.
They rule out necro coz of the hugh amount of skeletons u could raise with a necromancer, not because of Ghostdragons, dreads or vamplords.
And the other towns beside your starting town are also usually set as necro, so no1 could have advantage by having 2 or more towns of the same type they start with, coz necro is ruled out most of the time....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted January 24, 2005 08:44 AM |
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So it will be Ok to play with necro on one of this maps as long as you use a non-native hero as main and you don't use the necromancy skill in any way?
Necro is kinda cool even without legion skells
BTW one more question:about Angel Wings in a game where DD and fly are ruled out.No one is saying anything about it and it would be kinda low to use it, but some people do 
Is there a rule for this too?
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Salibu
Hired Hero
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posted October 06, 2008 07:49 PM |
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I do a day 1 rush (literally..day 1) on Yog's campaign first board.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 06, 2008 07:57 PM |
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Losing to first day rush, to town portal, to implosion, to Armageddon, to hit and run is showing nothing else than the limits of your skill. Nothing dishonourable here, once you accepted being weak player.
There is no way on the earth you could win vs a good player using the ONLY tactics above.
There is one thing which can greatly complicate a game, but certainly not give a easy win, it is dimension door and fly FROM a pyramid/scroll/box.
But anyway people who did this thread expected to get only positive reactions, and they read only comments which goes in their directions. Nothing is more relevant that practice. So, the people who did thread (or those who agree with stupid rules) should accept to play me on Jebus, you get conflux, me stronghold. You can hit and run, we place fly in your mage guild, you are red; if you win by red rush or fly or hit and run I will apologize in this thread and make "mea culpa". If I win, you make a thread "I am a newbie and I shall shut up".
Accepted?
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Rainalcar
Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
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posted October 06, 2008 11:37 PM |
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I love this post .
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