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| Thread: where to find info on this? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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jondifool
Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
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posted January 16, 2005 10:36 AM |
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where to find info on this?
Well i have been away for a long while, and coming back i found out i miss some informations. I have looked around alot here, but havent found it! I might have overlooked it somewhere!
so can anyone direct my to a link with informations about grifin cons, dwarf treasury, cyclops,naga banks wyverns and so on.
Also i forgot the breakpoints for creature specialist. When does the bonus to attack and defense kicks in!
jondifool
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The Oxe is slow, but earth have patience
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guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted January 16, 2005 10:58 AM |
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I think a great deal of that information is located in the Library Table of Contents thread above this one. It's got just about everything there, and you'll have quite a lot to read!
-guitarguy
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Shenjairo
Known Hero
Simsalabim
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posted January 16, 2005 10:43 PM |
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If you want most of the info in one place there's a strategy guide here. It's not totally accurate, but it's fairly good. It doesn't include the more advanced tactics, generally just game info and some basic tips. Information about creature dwellings can be found about 16 pages down, although the griffin conservatory is wrong. For griff's the real table is:
50 Griffs 1 Angel
100 Griffs 2 Angels
150 Griffs 3 Angels
200 Griffs 4 Angels
http://www.the-spoiler.com/STRATEGY/New.world.computing/heroes.of.might.and.magic3.1.html
It's only RoE I think, no AB or SoD. Just liked it for the creature banks really, plus it refreshed my memory some. I copied the creature list to Word when I started playing again after not playing the game for over 3 years, and changed the angel thing when I found out. Still not too good at crashing banks, I'm fairly chicken.
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jondifool
Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
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posted January 17, 2005 07:00 PM |
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thx for the info
greetings
to shenjaro: thx being away for a while does mean that i forgot alot, and it was sure a nice refresher to skim.
Now i just need the heroes bonus for creatures!
to guitarguy: ehmm... I also thought it should be in the library , but I havn't found it but i sure have looked! Thats why i asked! If i had been a noob here it offcause would have been right to direct me to the library!
with regards!
Jondifool
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The Oxe is slow, but earth have patience
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ArchWarlock
Tavern Dweller
True Gentleman
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posted January 18, 2005 02:36 AM |
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Information on monsters and heroes is in the online manual (there's a link in the Start Menu), information on structures, artifacts and treasure in the map editor. Pretty much every statistic and function can be found in those two places, including all the percentages for the depots (griffin conservatory, imp cache, etc).
And as for the hero specialties, it depends on the level of the monster. Bonuses for level 2 monsters start at hero level 3, so a level 5 Hero with a level 2 specialty would get +3 att/def for the monsters.
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Experience rarely does anyone good, it just does them in.
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zsa
Famous Hero
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posted January 18, 2005 07:19 AM |
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Quote:
And as for the hero specialties, it depends on the level of the monster. Bonuses for level 2 monsters start at hero level 3, so a level 5 Hero with a level 2 specialty would get +3 att/def for the monsters.
It doesn't work like that dude. that would mean that ignatius at lvl 20 will have imps with the attack and defense of devils  .
I think somebody tested out this in the library sometime back. For a hero with lvl 1 specialty you will double that unit's AS and DS at lvl 20, for a lvl 2 unit at lvl 40, lvl 3 unit - lvl 60 hero, and so on.
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jondifool
Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
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posted January 18, 2005 12:12 PM |
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greetings
Archwarlock: thx , i forgot about the mapeditor! thats right creaturebanks is also mentioned there!
Zsa: thx, so thats whats going on, i havent been able to figure it out, by just paying attention to it. But for sure its not 1 att and 1 defense for each lvl after the creatures!
with regards!!
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The Oxe is slow, but earth have patience
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted January 18, 2005 01:11 PM |
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Edited By: tigris on 19 Jan 2005
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Quote:
Quote:
And as for the hero specialties, it depends on the level of the monster. Bonuses for level 2 monsters start at hero level 3, so a level 5 Hero with a level 2 specialty would get +3 att/def for the monsters.
It doesn't work like that dude. that would mean that ignatius at lvl 20 will have imps with the attack and defense of devils .
I think somebody tested out this in the library sometime back. For a hero with lvl 1 specialty you will double that unit's AS and DS at lvl 20, for a lvl 2 unit at lvl 40, lvl 3 unit - lvl 60 hero, and so on.
IMHO this cannot be right either, cos not all the lvl 1 cratures have the same starting att/def.So acording to your theory the better the starting stats, the greater the bonus.
AFAIK the bonus consists in extra attack and defense and it is constant for all creature level specialists.If i'm not mistaken, a creature specialists will add +1 attack or +1 defense per each 4 level he/she advances.Also one most hold into acount that the higher the creature level, the later the bonus will kick in.In fact this is shown when right clicking in the speciallity icon on the hero screen.For exemple tamika will give extra attack/defense to any dark/dread knights she posseses after attaining 6th level.In fact the first bonus will appear at level 10.
The only exception to this rule are AFAIK the elementals specialists who provide a fix att/def bonus, regardless of hero level, starting from the time the hero level equals the creature level.I'm not sure if this bonus is constant for all elementals, but i know thubar gives his earth&magma elem +4 to both att/def.
@edit:I've just checked out the conflux creature specialists heroes:
It works like this:
Lacus&Kalt increase the attack of all water/ice elem +2
Ignisa&Fiur increase the attack of all fire/energy elem +1, the defense by +2 and the dmg by +2
Thubar and Erdamon give an extra +2 att,+1 def and 5 extra damage to all earth/magma elementals
Monere and Pasis give +3 att/def to all psichic/mind elementals under their command.
The interesting thing is theese bonuses work on the sumoned elementals too!So, taking thubar for instance and making him summon 50-70 earth elem won't be a bad choice, considering the extra 5 damage his speciality provides.
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Zsa
Famous Hero
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posted January 18, 2005 08:05 PM |
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Edited By: Zsa on 18 Jan 2005
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted January 19, 2005 11:46 AM |
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Heroes Specialities Calculations:
Creature Specialty:
Heroes with creature speciality get actually 3 Bonuses in one .
a) The indicated creatures gain a bonus of +1 to their Speed rating, regardless of the hero’s level. This gives additional movement in the fights and on the map.
b) As soon as the Hero level (= HL) reaches the Creature level (=CL), the indicated creatures also gain a bonus of +1 Attack and +1 Defence ratings.
c) In addition, they gain the 5% percentage bonus based on the creature’s basic attack and defence stats. Unfortunately they tried to balance this ability by dividing the percentage by the Creature Level. This wasn’t really necessary as the varying creature growth would’ve balanced it anyway. Now it takes too many Levels to get this speciality work on high level creatures:
Formular: Percentage that will be raised = (HL-CL) x 5% / CL
Example:
Level 21 Galthran with Skeletons (Level 1)
Formular: (21-1) x 5% /1 = 20 x 5% = 100%
Skeletons Basic Attack = 5
Skeletons Speciality = 5 x 100% = 5
Skeletons Total Attack = 10
Skeletons Basic Defence = 4
Skeletons Speciality = 4 x 100% = 4
Skeletons Total Defence = 8
Example:
Level 25 Alkin with Gorgons (Level 5)
Formulary: (25-5) x 5% / 5 = 20 x 5 % / 5 = 100% / 5 = 20%
Gorgons Basic Attack = 10
Gorgons Speciality = 10 x 20% = 2
Gorgons Total Attack = 12
Gorgons Basic Defence = 14
Gorgons Speciality = 14 x 20% = 2,8
Gorgons Total Defence approx.: = 17
You can see that on with Low Level Creatures the stats got doubled early, while already on Level 5 the effect is very limited. If u upgrade the creature and it gets better stats by this, the speciality also works on this. So for example if u have Galthran on Level 21 and u played well u will face your opponent with zounds of skeleton warriors, which is stats wise similar to face the opponent with zounds of mighty gorgons.
------>>>>One advice for “testers”: Don’t miss point “b”.<<<<-------
Xarfax1
PS: This is from my "Collectors Cut"-Thread. The only source that has the correct information about it. This thread is may hard to read (and understand), but if u want to have the correct numbers its the best place.
Just to add...
...of course NOONE will calculate those things in a game, BUT if u know how it works u can see if there is any USE or not....
...said this, i must say that creatures specialities all s*ck...except for Galthran (Skeletons).
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted January 19, 2005 05:46 PM |
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Edited By: tigris on 19 Jan 2005
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hi Xarfax!
I read your post and decided to test this myself.
Here are the results:
-your formula (HL-CL)*5%/CL is the simplest, but the least exact IMHO.Take for example gretchin at lvl 1.She
(and every other lvl 1 creature specialist) gives +1 att/def and +100 movement points.When you enter this event into your formula it results:HL=1;CL=1 so 0*5%/1=0 that's not true whatever the hero to be tested.Another thing i have discovered while testing is that the bonus increases acording to a very clear pattern, not random.
The problem is that each specialist has two of theese bonus patterns, one for unupgraded and one for upgraded units.
EG:Ignatius(spec imps/familiars) will always give his imps(att 2/def 3) the following bonuses:+1 att/def at lvl1; +1 def at lvl 7; +1 att at lvl 12 and +1 def at lvl 14.
I've tested this 10 times and it worked like this every time.Even more, this pattern repeats itself in cicles of 20 levels.This means that at lvl 21
he'll give +1 att/deff bonus, at lvl 27 +1 def..etc.In the end the 1st level creature specialists double the stats of the creature before reaching lvl 21 , but not necesarily at lvl 20.(for exemple
Ignatius doubles his imp stats at lvl 14)
When testing Ignatius with familiars(att 4/def 4), a new pattern occured:at lvl 1 he gave +1 att/def; at lvl 6 +1 att/def; at lvl 11 +1 att/def; at lvl 16 +1 att/def.After lvl 20 the pattern repeats itself.
Then i tested Gretchin with goblins/hobgoblins. Yet another two different patterns.
Same with Galthran and Drakon.
The fact that the bonuses occur at precise timing for same creature made me belive that there is a mathemathical formula that can justify theese patterns.
I think the formula you have provided can't be correct cos each specialists has to increase the att/def by a different number/ratio.
To take a simple exemple from what i have tested: lvl 11:ignatius with familiars and Gretchin with goblins.At lvl 11 Ignatius gives his familiars +3 att/def and Gretchin gives +3 att/+2 def to hte goblins she poseses.
Acording to your formula at lvl 11 those heroes should have given: (11-1)*5%/1=50% from their stats meaning +2 att/def for Ignatius familiars and +2 att/+1 def for Gretchin's goblins.You can see it isn't so.The only time when your formula is exact is
at lvl 20.(At least this thing is common in all posts:Wub's, yours and mine ).
I think the Exact formula is based on the Sum of the basic creature stats, which determines how big the bonus should be.I've been trying to find a formula thta works, but haven't succeded yet  I'll try some more!
Hope this isn't regarded as an attack by you, but as an honest observation, based on real work and research.
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted January 19, 2005 08:39 PM |
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Quote:
Take for example gretchin at lvl 1.She
(and every other lvl 1 creature specialist) gives +1 att/def and +100 movement points.When you enter this event into your formula it results:HL=1;CL=1 so 0*5%/1=0 that's not true whatever the hero to be tested.
Read point b) as already recommended for peeps that are unable to read a few lines properly.
Quote:
Another thing i have discovered while testing is that the bonus increases acording to a very clear pattern, not random.
Thats exactly what i really hate. Did i mention somewhere that the bonus is "random" ...geez..please dont answer to my post anymore if u r not at least willing to read and understand. Of course it is NOT random...it is EXACTLY how i described.
Quote:
The problem is that each specialist has two of theese bonus patterns, one for unupgraded and one for upgraded units.
Thats complete NONSENSE. It always works the same, just the basic attack and defense changes, when it get upgraded. The calculation stays the same.
Quote:
EG:Ignatius(spec imps/familiars) will always give his imps(att 2/def 3) the following bonuses:+1 att/def at lvl1; +1 def at lvl 7; +1 att at lvl 12 and +1 def at lvl 14.
...as the rest of your post is not in a readable form, like always,so i will try to explain it, that even u can understand it, with yourexample:
Ignatius LvL14 with an Lvl1 Imp.
(Lvl14-1)*5%/Lvl1 = 13 * 5% = 65%
For additional attack:
This imps has an attack of 11. First uve to reduce it by the heroes attack of 6 = Rest 5
Now this imp is on "Homeground" which also gives it +1 Attack, so reduce that too = Rest 4
As soon as Ignatius reaches Lvl1, he gives the imps +1 additional attack, so reduce that too ("dont miss point b") = Rest 3
An Imp has normally 2 Attack, so u see that Ignatius Bonus gave +1 Attack in the end.
So 65% of 2 base attack is = 1,4 which is +1 Attack rounded down.
For additional defense:
65% of 3 base defense = 1,95 which is +2 Defense rounded.
(13 -6 Hero -1 Underground -1 "point b" -3 base = 2)
Hope u did understand it, and good luck with your retesting.
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted January 20, 2005 08:31 AM |
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Quote:
Read point b) as already recommended for peeps that are unable to read a few lines properly.
You're killing me with this point b issue!It sais that as soon as HL equalls creature level, the hero will give +1 att/def and +1 speep to his creatures.So for level 1 specialists this will be right away.
Quote:
Thats exactly what i really hate. Did i mention somewhere that the bonus is "random" ...geez..please dont answer to my post anymore if u r not at least willing to read and understand. Of course it is NOT random...it is EXACTLY how i described.
No you haven't said it's random, at least not in those worlds.But IMHO it is you the one that doesn't understand it correct and isn't willing to accept different views.Cos, you see it is "NOT" exactly how you describe it.
Quote:
The problem is that each specialist has two of theese bonus patterns, one for unupgraded and one for upgraded units.
Thats complete NONSENSE. It always works the same, just the basic attack and defense changes, when it get upgraded. The calculation stays the same.
Now that proves that what i have stated above.If you would have tested the whole thing 10 times with each hero, both with upgraded and with unupgraded units (like i did) you might have noticed that the bonusses occur at specific times(but ALWAYS at the same time for a given situation).This is caused by the different starting stats of the critters.
Quote:
EG:Ignatius(spec imps/familiars) will always give his imps(att 2/def 3) the following bonuses:+1 att/def at lvl1; +1 def at lvl 7; +1 att at lvl 12 and +1 def at lvl 14.
...as the rest of your post is not in a readable form, like always,so i will try to explain it, that even u can understand it, with yourexample:
Just cos you can't understand it doesn't mean it is not correct, so it does not initle you to flame like you're the grandfather of all knoledge.
Quote:
As soon as Ignatius reaches Lvl1, he gives the imps +1 additional attack, so reduce that too ("dont miss point b") = Rest 3
This is the flaw in your theory!The old point b.
Why should i reduce that too?If you deduct this initial bonus Xarfax, you'll notice that at lvl 20 Ignatius will fail to have given his imps the extra bonus you told us in the first post.Cos the results of the testings are very obvious:Ignatius gives a total of 2att and 3 def bonus at level 20 including the initial bonus of +1 att/def .
If you have really tested this(wich i sincerily doubt), instead of just speculate you would have noticed that yourself!
Please belive me Ignatius will always give his imps+1 att/def at lvl1; +1 def at lvl 7; +1 att at lvl 12 and +1 def at lvl 14.And no more bonusses till lvl 21 when he gives again +1 att/def(the cicle closes)
So if you deduct the initial bonus you contradict yourself once again as he wouldn't double his imps initial stats by lvl 20.
I don't think my theory needs retesting, i already understand the practical side, cos i've seen it with my own eyes.All i need now is to find a formula that explains the process.
Maybe we should ask someone else about this, so it is not looked at as a personal dispute between us!I'll e-mail to Wub the whole thing and see what he thinks of it!Also maybe Angelito or someone else is willing to test this also.
P.S: I think this time you should follow your own advice(the one you suggested in your latest IM)
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted January 20, 2005 10:50 AM |
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Quote:
Why should i reduce that too?If you deduct this initial bonus Xarfax, you'll notice that at lvl 20 Ignatius will fail to have given his imps the extra bonus you told us in the first post.
Thats exactly what i mean:
It is not Ignatius in my first post, it is Galthran. And no, if u open your eyes u will easily note that Galthran is NOT lvl20, he is LVL21.
Lvl21
Lvl21
...i just repeat it, as it seems that u just dont want to read my posts properly.
I end this discussion right here. Next time if u say that im wrong, at least try to take the correct numbers.
NOWHERE i stated thats the stats get doubled with level20.
Xarfax1
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted January 20, 2005 12:39 PM |
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The thing is, Xarfax that you seem to be blocked on this ideea that i don't read your posts with enough attention and i'm always looking to dissagree with you.
It's not like that!It's not like that at all!
I think that your "level 21 theory" isn't correct and for one simple reason: starting with level 21 the pattern according to which Ignatius, for exemple, acords bonusses to his imps starts to repeat.
For exemple, if he gives +1att/def at lvl 1, he will give the same bonus at lvl 21;At lvl 7 he gives +1 def and at lvl 27 he will give the same bonus.I tested this untill ignatius reached lvl 54 and it's always the same.This lead me to a conclusion:This process ir of recurent nature and it's starting with lvl 1(for lvl 1 critter specialists).According to your theory the initial bonus is just odd, not belonging in any mathematical hypothesis.I think what i have presented is a more plausibile situation.
You should have known by now that i'm not at all into having conflicts with anyone,I don't post just for the sake of polishing my fingertips or so.But i won't accept to be run over and flamed just because someone things that if i have only a few stars, then my oppinions are worthless.I enjoy testing stuff as much as you do and i try to do my best when starting a task like this.So please, give a little thought to my side of the story too and try to acknoledge that maybe this once you are mistaken.This isn't a thing worth arguing about and there is already too much said about this.So yes let's end this discution now!
Hope we're (still) Ok with eachother
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted January 20, 2005 03:04 PM |
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...both things are calculated seperately:
point b) is just given 1 timewhen reaching creature level.
point c) is the next bonus which is given exactly like it is stated in the first mentioned formular.
So if u want to know which bonus does point c) give, to make a proof - uve too substract point b) from your results. As simple as this.
Xarfax1
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted January 20, 2005 03:50 PM |
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LOL you two are both right The source of the misunderstanding is that Xarfax is talking about the way things are calculated, while Tigris is talking about the patters this leads to. Neither will ever contradict the other, so you two might as well stop right here
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted January 20, 2005 08:11 PM |
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Just a normal day with my buddies at the "HC Supermarket":
Some weird persons standing around a table, where someone sells fruits and vegetables. A Customers asks a question:
Jondifol:Ive 22 Dollars, i want a banana and some green apples. The banana costs 2 Dollars and each of those green apples cost 1 Dollar. How many fruits can I buy?
Xarfax1: The answer is 21. First uve to substract the 2 Dollars for your banana, then u can buy 20 times 1 green apple. So its:
1 Ba * 2 USD + 20 Ap * 1 USD = 22 USD
Tigris:That's not true.I have discovered while testing that the banana increases according to a very clear pattern, not random.
Xarfax1:Where did i say its random? It follows exactly the calculation i mentioned.
Tigris:U r just not willing to accept different views. I tested it with "upgraded" not green apples which cost 1,50 USD..and guess what? <-- I did NOT get 21 fruits! I also tested it with strawberries, carrots, oranges and some other funny stuff! You are wrong!
Xarfax1: When the price changes of course the result will be else, but the calculation stays the same. Btw. carrots arent even seen as fruits.
Tigris: Not all apples are GREEN! Gras is green, but not all apples!
Xarfax1:Lol where did i say that all apples are green? Gras isnt always green either.
Tigris: See!! Gras isnt always green either! Your calculation is wrong!
Xarfax1:No, its exactly how i described it.
Tigris:You are wrong. I tested it! I bought 10 more apples.. so i had 31 fruits ...still there WASNT THE SECOND BANANA! (Ha i got u!)
Xarfax1: ...eerrm!?
Tigris: I guess u didnt even tested it or tried to buy some for a single time, never checked it in reality, never tried to buy some fruits. I admit that i assume that out of the blue, but it think that..ive an opinion.
Xarfax1 goes and buys 1 Banana and 20 green apples for 22 Dollars from the supermarket. He does even make some pictures = him spending 22 Dollars ...getting the banana .. and the 20 green apples. Then he shows him the pictures and explains everything one by one.
Tigris:You havent tested it! I gonna telephone Wub, he knows how to buy fruits. You are wrong!
Xarfax1: No it works exactly like described.
Tigris: Ha! Only cause uve some stars from the supermarket you are not better then me, you "supermarketwanabevet". You are so arrogant! ...Although i just called u "supermarketwanabevet" and "arrogant" i hope we still will be friends. 
Xarfax1: Jondifol just wanted 1 banana. So uve to reduce that 1 time! Then u divide the rest of your money by the prize of the appels. Dont miss the banana!!
Lord Woock: LOL you two are both right The source of the misunderstanding is that Xarfax is talking about the way things are calculated, while Tigris is talking about the patterns this leads to. Neither will ever contradict the other, so you two might as well stop right here
Xarfax1: AAAHHHHHHHHH!...
Lord Woock: ?
Tigris: ?
Xarfax1: ...argh. I guees i gonna buy me a pistol instead for 22 Dollars ...ive heard u get 1 bullet for free for this pistol so i can shot into my head.
Tigris: Your calculation is wrong. I just bought 2 Pistols and only got 1 Bullet for freee!!!!
SteveStiffler: Tigris u r such a "banananOObie".
LewisTherin: Xarfax1 Tigris is right: Sometimes its more important to get 2 bananas....
Xarfax1: Oh yes, not that i expected your stupid "im the best bananabuyer" comment.
LewsTherin: Although i havnt bought bananas for 2 years now im still faster buying them then u, i hope everyone remembers the time when i saw myself as one of the best "bananaboatmasters" of the world.
Angelito: @Xarfax1: Whats wrong with u? Stop calling other peeps "supermarketwanabee", "banananewbie", "bananajoe", "bananarama"...
Acugaylord:U see banana rightwhat apples in da house !?! Xars*cks!
Angelito:@Tigris: Of course it is all just differnt point of views, some like banana, some green apples, some like gras ...i see gras in green, the sea in blue...heibubschibu ... "and iiii think to myself, what a wonderful world".....lalalala
The owner of the supermarket was watching the discussion. He looks into his trousers and sees: ..NO B*LLS!!. He always wanted to close down the supermarket --too much work for no money -- but he had no b*lls to tell the customers. So this was the opportunity!
Owner: Ok, too much discussion in here. This is the reason why i close the supermarket. Everyone please leave!
Immeadiately the owners shorts drop down to his feed and everyone could see .. NO B*LLS!!
The very next day there were a sign at the closet supermarket: Andiangelslayer and Xarfax1 are responsible for the closure of this supermarket!
Heavy addicted customers like Zud, Jinxer, Lichking and Acugaylord beginn to demonstrate and shouting at Andiangelslayer (and Xarfax1).
Miss Kitty opens a lousy market.
Acugaylord sees Miss Kitty.
Acugaylord falls in love.
TRUE LOVE
Sweet kisses
Boy mets Girl
Girl mets Boy
HAPPY END
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greek_god_su...
Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
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posted January 20, 2005 08:31 PM |
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Have to say I enjoyed reading that post, Xarfax!
Definately worth a qp, no matter what.
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime
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LordLazy
Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
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posted January 21, 2005 12:05 AM |
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Its funny indeed, although, I dont want woockie noobies statements on my cape  hehe
I wont state anything in here cos I havent tested anything, but indeed, there is no reason to get irritated, for any of you two
well, still, this post is funny at least I got the point now, maybe I need to get it the childrens way, keep it coming
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Tagged officially as Noobegian two years ago. This typographic material is strictly copyrighted. All situations containing abuse will be brought to court.
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