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| Thread: friendship? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted February 06, 2005 11:47 PM |
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friendship?
Random question: What makes a friendship on HC?
I know the answer is going to be different for everyone. I just want a feel for where people stand. This is inspired by the current episode of "As the Forum Turns" playing out in Tavern.  It got me thinking.
* Is it possible to have real friends online? What differences, if any, are there between online friendships and real life ones?
* What makes someone a friend? Is it someone whose posts you like? Someone you exchange posts with in a thread? Exchange IMs? Exchange e-mails? Meet in person? How do you distinguish a friend from an acquaintence?
* What is expected of a friend? Just talking? How much contact is required to maintain a friendship? Are people supposed to acknowledge friendships publically? If someone attacks a friend, are you supposed to jump in to support them? What if they're just in an argument?
What I am not looking for: lists of specific names. We have threads like that already, and I think they're dangerous (people get offended if they're omitted, etc.). This is just a brainstorm thread on the general topic. Which is why it's in the Wastelands, by the way -- I don't want to bind myself to this beastie. Eventual deletion = more comfort. 
My own answers: I just don't know. I don't have friends in real life; I'm a loner par excellance. Trust is a problem, as is commitment. So when I exchange IMs with people I like on HC, I don't know when that relationship turns into a friendship, and I don't know what's expected of me. I don't even know if I want to cross the line into friendship, as much as I may like the particular individuals with whom I'm talking. I'd like to know where on the HC spectrum my attitude stands.
So, there it is. Thoughts on this topic: go!
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 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted February 07, 2005 04:46 AM |
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Yes, i think its possible to have couple of real HC comrades. I'm not as skeptical as IYY in the other thread. Why fake? If u go with that, then RL can also be fake. True, u cant go somewhere and do something with HC buddies, but u can talk with them, which is the most important imo. of course, its no replacement for RL, but sometimes u feel closer to forum friends than most RL friends. And just how close u r with people here depends on how long u know them through their posting, and how much u contact with em through IM and MSN. Also, its important what u talk about then. personally, i find MSN has helped me the most to make some friends here. they r few and they are not real friends (mostly because i see "real friend" as smth holly, and even in RL i have very few real friends.) its cool to talk with HC friends because they are international and often certain topics come up for conversation that u've never had with RL friends. i dont really expect anything but talking (what else can u do) and occassionally uploading a song or two for u. (u, punk, u know who u r ) about the how u react when friend is attacked, its the same as we do in RL, i think, though i never defend a friend a priori if i dont agree with him.
hope that answers all.
btw, i think this thread should be in the tavern, cos not many people will see it here. after it reaches 10 pages, u can have asmo send it on the wastelands express if u want. 
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted February 07, 2005 08:23 PM |
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Well, I'm not really sure if I think of the people I occasionally talk with here on HC as friends. I see them as more than aquintances or how the **** that's spelled...), but not quite friends.
I don't have many friends in RL, but I still feel that I share something more with those people than with those I talk to here. After all, I've known them longer.
But internet friendships are neat, as long as you don't put to much into them.
Like Svarog said, since the internet friends are often international and you in addition to that don't expect to see them in RL, you talk to them with stuff you wouldn't have talked to anyone else with, and you get impulses from other places. An example: Because of internet, and MSN, I now know more about Polish swearing than I used to. Isn't that something? 
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted February 07, 2005 09:58 PM |
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A friend is there when you need them, a friend wouldnt judge you for being any diferent,a friend would respect you & deserve the same respect.
Your friend will talk to you when you need someone to talk to.
A friend would never use you to get self gain,a friend would not use you just for money.
A friend is a person who likes you enough .
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Dreaming of a Better World
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted February 07, 2005 10:48 PM |
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A friend is a person who'd lend you $1000 even when he's broke. Anybody willing to do that for their HC buddies? Didn't think so.
You may have found what I just said highly hypocritical considering my semi-socialist beliefs, but this is not the case. I do not value money a lot, and neither do most intelligent people. But I will not lend a significant amount of it to a person I know online. Why? Some of it is trust, another part is just the fact that I don't really care about online friendships all that much that I'd sacrifice something, even something as unimportant as money, for them.
And money was just an example. It applies to many other things. The general statement I am making is something like this: you would not trade any of your real life posessions (and now I use this word in a way that includes your emotions as well as physical objects) for online relationships.
Just as I wouldn't give $1000 to an online friend, I wouldn't give them my true love or my full trust. It's that simple, really.
A different case is when two people have met online and since then met many times in person. In that case it is possible, though by no means easy, to establish true friendships. It is also possible to develop a real relationship if two people met in real life, but ended up seperating and doing most of their talking online. Again, not easy but definatly possible.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted February 07, 2005 11:14 PM |
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Quote:
A friend is a person who'd lend you $1000 even when he's broke. Anybody willing to do that for their HC buddies? Didn't think so.
.........
Sorry IVY, but that for sure is NOT what i call a friend. Coz friendship, in my eyes, has NOTHING to do with money. A friend for me is someone, who i can call at any time if i have a problem, and he would help me without any hesitance. And if i wouldnīt live soooo far away from some online buddies, i would surely do that.
But perhaps itīs just a point of view.....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted February 07, 2005 11:22 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
A friend is a person who'd lend you $1000 even when he's broke. Anybody willing to do that for their HC buddies? Didn't think so.
.........
Sorry IVY, but that for sure is NOT what i call a friend. Coz friendship, in my eyes, has NOTHING to do with money. A friend for me is someone, who i can call at any time if i have a problem, and he would help me without any hesitance. And if i wouldnīt live soooo far away from some online buddies, i would surely do that.
But perhaps itīs just a point of view.....
Friendship does, indeed, have nothing to do with money. There is no direct connection. However, money was a common example of a solution to a problem, just as you describe. If a real life friend of mine has to pay his rent and doesn't have a job or a coin in his pocket, I'd help him by lending or giving away money. Does this mean that our friendship is based on money? Of course not. It's just a way of helping out a friend.
The reason I shoose money is because it is a physical object and does not leave room for excuses. If we were talking about the more symbolic help (i.e help me pull through during a divorce) people would make excuses. "Yeah, sure, I stayed online and talked to him for the entire night, cheering him up." One would say in a counterargument. That's all well and fine, you sacrificed a couple of hours at night typing. Sure, one could then reply with "But I gave him emotional support!" And he could be right. However, there is no way of measuring emotional support, and therefore no way of holding such a debate at all. Who am I to say that his emotional support was less valuable than that of a RL friend? However, if we use the rent problem and instead of a night of "emotional support" we are talking about a simple $1000 loan, we can establish the true nature of this "friendship".
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted February 07, 2005 11:37 PM |
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Quote:
A friend is a person who'd lend you $1000 even when he's broke.
Would you ask your friend for a $1000 loan when you know he's broke? Would you put him in that position?
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Drive by posting.
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted February 07, 2005 11:56 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
A friend is a person who'd lend you $1000 even when he's broke.
Would you ask your friend for a $1000 loan when you know he's broke? Would you put him in that position?
Nope, never. But I would give it to him without him asking if he was in need, though.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted February 08, 2005 02:45 AM |
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Quote:
However, if we use the rent problem and instead of a night of "emotional support" we are talking about a simple $1000 loan, we can establish the true nature of this "friendship".
Ouch IYY! Who on Earth told you that you can "measure" friendships with money?
The whole comparisson was bad to begin with. And the way you compared "giving 1000$ to an online friend, and giving true love and full trust" was also rather low.
I agree with angelito that giving something of a material worth is perfectly ok, even for online friends. (like today, he spent an hour of his worktime to check and neatly correct my essay in german, as quick as possible. thanx, man. ) It just depends on how much you trust and care about them, although for online friends it is harder to gain their trust, since the picture u have about them is basically an avatar, while in RL people seemingly think they know each other more if they know how they look or the car they drive. (which is BS, if u ask me) Anyways, I've had an online friendship with a girl and she visited, and she invited me to visit back. I shared my house, and i'm ready to do the same even for some of my HC online friends here, if they're ever coming this way. Isnt that a sort of material posession?
But whats a lot more important is the emotional bond between friends. Actually a friend is not someone you talk to at night, cos you want him to entertain you and make laughs (the same about RL friends); but you become friends the moment you start caring about them, the moment you start giving something.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted February 08, 2005 04:52 AM |
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Again, you misunderstand what I am saying. You can not measure friendship with money, true. I never denied it. But you can measure friendships with magnitude of sacrifice, if you will. Money is a very small sacrifice in comparisson to emotions, yes, but it is a sacrifice just like them. I am saying that if you are not willing to give something as small as money, you are not giving them the emotions that you claim you are giving.
It's the same when dating. You buy your girl a nice ring or sexy underwear - would you argue that you can't buy love? Of course you can't buy love, nobody was saying anything about buying it! However, if love a person, spending a small, insignificant amount on money on them would seem trivial.
And besides, you say that I use money to "measure" friendship. This is not true for another reason. I am not saying that the quality of friendship is directly proportional to the amount of money spent on it. That's just silly. But a small amount of money, just like any object, service or emotional gift, can be used to check if we are dealing with a true friendship here or not.
In my opinion "emotions > time spent to earn $1000 > an object of price $1000 > $1000 > emotions that you claim to be priceless, but yet would give to those to whom you wouldn't give no objects or money > chat"
Some people could arrange these a bit differently as gifts, but either way $1000 > meaningless emotions.
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Shadowcaster
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Shaded Scribe
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posted February 08, 2005 05:51 AM |
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Well I, for one, believe that emotions are priceless and can hardly be written off as meaningless. Money comes and goes, but the gut emotions we feel, not necessarily those we show off for others but those deep inside, shape and define who we are. What you feel defines a friendship much more than how much money you'd give away to someone.
Sure, it is much easier to hide who you are over the internet, and the trust factor is certainly diminished due to that fact, but I still value the people with whom I come into contact with here and on other message boards. These people define different kinds of friends than those in real life simply because while I see the latter here with me, hear them speak, see them live even when they don't know that I'm watching, the people I meet and talk to regularly online provide someone to talk to without so much fear of being judged. It's so much easier at times to talk with those kinds of friends about stuff that may otherwise present an emotional or awkward situation with those who are directly or indirectly involved.
I value both, but in different ways, for each provides something the other cannot so easily supply.
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>_>
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gorman
Promising
Legendary Hero
Been around since before 2003
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posted February 08, 2005 07:33 AM |
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Friendship to me is simply put into trust, if I can trust you I consider you a friend. If you get into something illegal I trust you as a friend to keep me out of it. What you do is your business. I always seem to have a habit of dropping whatever I'm working on to help anyone if they're having some problem. Sometimes its a good thing but can also be a bad thing. I dunno, that's basically all I need in a friend is trust. Plain and simple
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When all else fails... Take notes.... ALL the time... ESPECIALLY when playing D&D.... or Pokemon in my case
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted February 08, 2005 04:28 PM |
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~moved thread with Khaelo's ok~
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 09, 2005 02:39 AM |
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Edited By: Conan on 8 Feb 2005
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Quote:
* Is it possible to have real friends online? What differences, if any, are there between online friendships and real life ones?
trust, as you said is huge. Shadowcaster said it well when he/she said that there is always a lack of trust online. The differences are the interpersonnal communication. You cannot have a friend without spending time learning how he/she communicates. Communication is much bigger that words and everyone knows that. That said, to have a true friend, you need to communicate better than reading/writing. You need body language, tone of voice, etc.
However, it all depends on what you are looking for in a friend. And this is a highly personnal choice. One could seek domination and another could seek comfort. As long as your friend gives you what you are seeking for in the relationship, then it will work.
Quote:
* What makes someone a friend? Is it someone whose posts you like? Someone you exchange posts with in a thread? Exchange IMs? Exchange e-mails? Meet in person? How do you distinguish a friend from an acquaintence?
Time. Time makes all the differences. With time, you pass through alot of situations and your "friend to be" would also be there. Friendship on HC would have to go further than posting or IM's. Friendship on HC would be someone you speak to about what is going on in your life and what you expect that person to give you in your relationship. This could be done via email or IM's, but certainly not posts; although the friendship could emerge from a post. It might be impossible for 2 HC members to meet in RL because of logistics. Certainly, I would not consider anyone a friend until I've spoken to that person at least on the phone. If you can't meet, then at least speak on the phone.
In short, a friend will give you something an acquaintence will not.
Quote:
* What is expected of a friend? Just talking? How much contact is required to maintain a friendship? Are people supposed to acknowledge friendships publically? If someone attacks a friend, are you supposed to jump in to support them? What if they're just in an argument?
nothing should be expected from a friend; perhaps only respect. Friendship is more than just talking. It's exchanging. You can exchange alot more than words
There is no minimum contact needed to maintain a well-established friendship. If both parties want to make it work after 2 years of no contact, it will.
About supporting your friend; most people do think that you need to support your friend. That is of a personal belief. I, for instance, don't think so. I will if i want to, but my friends don't expect me to support them. One thing you can do is ask your friend if they want your support. THAT is a good sign of friendship.
Friendship is personal, it is not public. Therefore you do not need to acknowledge it publically. But it is sometimes nice to ackknowledge it with your friend! (I'm not kidding: this sounds stupid, but not many people tell their friends that they like them)
In any case, it's not as complicated as you think. It just happens. You need not work at it. If so, it is not a friendship, but a one-way thing. You might end up with a friend and realize it once it's done.
Hope this helps.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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AzureMajesty
Promising
Adventuring Hero
Gaea Mother Earth
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posted February 09, 2005 03:55 AM |
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Online friends in my own opinion are more valuable to me as they honestly don't have to be your friend. They choose on their own accord to be there for you vs simply turning off their computer. As well as you choose to be their for them. (My point in this is that a real life friend may at times feel like they have to be there for you when there are times that they would rather be doing something else; but since they are there in person they don'y have that easy out.
In today's harsh society, friends are made by a lot of people based upon What they look like, How they dress, Who their friends are, Where they live, etc.
I have made many, many online friends in my 4 years of being a part of the Heroes Community and have in fact traveled to different states to meet them. I spent 10 very pleasant, relaxed days with 2 such friends this past April when my husband and I traveled too Chicago for our vacation.
I have a phone list of over 40 friends from the gaming community, most from the states; but about 8 of them are from Canada so calling long distance isn't a problem for me when I really want too talk to a good friend. I've even contemplated calling the UK but haven't got the nerve up to do that yet, hubby might get me for that one.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 10, 2005 11:19 PM |
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**Sigh**......
I think it's a good topic and I have some things to post but not under the auspices of supposed(albeit historically proven) tendencies of this thread's author. I post freely or I don't post at all. Delete as you will. Perhaps someone else(who is a bit more reliable and stable) will start this thread again in the future. Only then will I contribute to this topic. Until then I warn other members of the nature of the thread's author.
"Don't trust her to keep her own material alive!"
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted February 11, 2005 12:45 AM |
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Quote:
Perhaps someone else(who is a bit more reliable and stable) will start this thread again in the future. Only then will I contribute to this topic. Until then I warn other members of the nature of the thread's author.
"Don't trust her to keep her own material alive!"
OMG, Khaelo, how can u be so unreliable and unstable?! I cant believe I trusted you enough to post here. Thanks Consis for opening our eyes and showing us her true wicked nature.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted February 11, 2005 01:21 AM |
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It is not my responsibility to keep this topic alive. People have been answering thoughtfully, and I'm happy (yes, it helps, Conan ). The more, the merrier. If everyone runs out of things to say, so it happens.
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Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 11, 2005 01:32 AM |
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Am I missing something here?? Aren't we just having a good conversation on Friendship?
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