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| Thread: Heroes' Personality | |
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muneeb1234
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 29, 2005 05:13 PM |
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Heroes' Personality
I feel that the heroes in HOMM4 do not have individual personality traits. I think if different heroes (even of the same class) have different skill learning tendancies then the players would wait for a perticular hero to become available (in the tavern) and this would add an extra element of luck and surprise to the game. I remember that the warlock Wrathamont (in HOMM2) used to enhance his Spell Power more that any other primary skill while Vesper on the other hand preferred Knowledge. I don't know whether this was an illusion or it was really intended to be that way but i sure looked forward to recruiting Wrathamont whenever possible.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted March 29, 2005 10:07 PM |
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Quote:
I feel that the heroes in HOMM4 do not have individual personality traits. I think if different heroes (even of the same class) have different skill learning tendancies then the players would wait for a perticular hero to become available (in the tavern) and this would add an extra element of luck and surprise to the game...
I couldn't agree more.
First of all, make heroes race-based (I hate to see humans in each town!). Each race should have certain advantages (skill bonuses, attack, defense, speed etc).
Race-based heroes could have creature abilities, like Thief (Chaos might hero) shared his Stealth ability with Bandit (Chaos creature). Vampire heroes could drain life (suck blood) or strike enemies without retaliation. Human Knights could have jousting bonus, or maximum morale, or first strike, or stun ability, or undead protection. Dark Elf Assassins could have trail of darkness, or poison attack, or seduce ability and so on. Imagine a dragon hero with fire breath!
Give us unique heroes within races. In Heroes III, each hero had a unique specialty. However, a large number were useless or I did not care for most of them. The WoG team introduced specialties like Builder and Darkness in addition to already existing ones (Hopefully, we will see some more in the upcoming 3.58 patch).
There are a lot of other skills that have never appeared in the series before. Think of less abstract yet useful adventure abilities: web, tame, barter, steal, ambush etc.
The current WoG list of Blesses and Curses may be helpful.
Each hero should also have a unique disorder. This feature should balance various advantages and disadvantages. The more powerful specialty, the more serious shortcoming.This is where various protections, immunities, wards and weaknesses come in.
Gelu in my picture is obviously an Elf, which grants him some inherent skills. His unique specialty is Caravan Master (additional speed for caravans), and he has Death Weakness (Death creatures deal double damage).
You'll notice I prefer the Heroes IV skill tree. 
Keep in mind that on the adventure map these heroes would keep their racial apperance (with minor changes, such as an armour or a cap), thus solving the problem of animation).
The list of race-based heroes could include :
Life: Hafling, Gnome, Human, Angel
Order: Dwarf, Genie, Naga, Titan
Nature: Elf, Centaur, Sprite, Dendroid
Chaos: Minotaur, Drow, Medusa, Efreet
Death: Undead Knight, Vampire, Lich, Demon
Might: Orc, Goblin, Ogre, Troll
Neutral: Lizardman, Werewolf, Ghost, Leprechaun
Dragon: Gold, Black, Faerie, Bone
Elemental: Air, Water, Earth, Fire
9 x 4 x 4 (for example) = 144 heroes...
... each of them with unique advantages and disadvantages, and with a chance to advance and gain additional class abilities... with obvious restrictions, of course - it is hard to imagine an Angel who becomes a thief or ranger, for example).
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Ellderon
Adventuring Hero
Lightbringer
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posted April 05, 2005 10:45 AM |
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It would be hard to blance these things...
As you pointed out, in H3 some heroes were so clearly superior becouse of their special bility that everyone wanted them. Some heroes were totally useless.
It's definately possible and I like the idea, as long as they make each hero usefull (at least in particual circumstances).
However, the list of races you posted I don't agree with. You posted an demon in a undead town and put an angel as a hero..I frankly don't like that..
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elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 05, 2005 10:59 AM |
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a agree with ellderon and some of the heroes like titans black dragons dont seem to be very well thought out and are too strong. if a titan was a hero wouldnt he be superior to a gnome by a crazy amount. maybe if you took away the angel, titan and other higher creatures the idea would look better
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 05, 2005 01:54 PM |
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Quote:
However, the list of races you posted I don't agree with. You posted an demon in a undead town and put an angel as a hero..I frankly don't like that..
There is an angel hero in Disciples 2. She is beautiful, fast and heals other units.
OK, I admit I lost my inspiration when it came to the fourth Undead hero type. 
Frankly, I don't like my proposal either and believe that the Demons and Undead don't belong together (as seen in Heroes 4).
What would you suggest then?
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 05, 2005 05:48 PM |
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Quote:
some of the heroes like titans black dragons dont seem to be very well thought out and are too strong. if a titan was a hero wouldnt he be superior to a gnome by a crazy amount. maybe if you took away the angel, titan and other higher creatures the idea would look better
Ah, but that was the whole idea - to have unique heroes.
A Titan or Black Dragon hero would start with higher stats, especially health and damage. They would obviously be fighters in your army. Naturally, they would be balanced by various weaknesses: such powerful warriors would take double damage from low level creatures and not able to learn any kind of magic.
The point is you would need other types of heroes! I've always thought Stealth was one of the most interesting new features. Now imagine that all heroes are as special as Thieves.
You've mentioned Gnome, for example. He could have Estates, Mine and Repair abilities.
Estates - as a supporting hero, Gnome would add gold and resources to your kingdom daily
Mine - Gnome could set landmines in your gold, ore, gem and crystal mines, so they would explode if the opponent takes them over... and kill some of his creatures.
Repair - healers would not be able to heal or resurrect mechanical creatures (Ballistae, Catapults, Golems and Dragon Golems), but a Gnome engineer could repair them.
Add one unique specialty per each hero (for example, our Gnome - and he alone! - could boost artifacts because he was the apprentice of a legendary dwarven weaponsmith or something).
Finally, add a unique disorder (our Gnome is lame due to an old wound from a goblin spear - so he limps, or in other words, has half a movement).
Just think of other possibilities! Elves, Orcs, Genies...
There are countless stories to be told, hundreds of different combinations and endless tactics to implement.
As for balance, no infinite immortality potions and early Beta testing would do...
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 06, 2005 07:55 AM |
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ahhh i see now
u really should have explained this in the first place to avoid confusion
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 06, 2005 03:27 PM |
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Edited By: Vlaad on 6 Apr 2005
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In fact, I should have posted a pic!
Our Joe is a Gnome (like all Gnomes, he is specialized in Estates, Mine and Repair), his unique specialty is Weaponsmith (he can forge and boost minor artifacts) and his unique disorder is Limp (he has half a movement). See my previous post for details.
I think our Joe would be far from useless in the game...
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 07, 2005 12:06 AM |
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excellent work, i would welcome this idea into H5 very much and completely agree about the possibilities of it now
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Ellderon
Adventuring Hero
Lightbringer
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posted April 07, 2005 01:57 PM |
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While elves, gnomes and others you posted sound excellent, there is stil la big balance issue here.
you have a gnome hero - he's a poor fighter but excellent in hoarding resurces.
Then you have an dragon/titan/angel - who is a figting powerhouse.
The problem is - where does that leave normal heroes (lik human knights, elven rangers). No one would ever take them in multi.
So I think it's far better to leave high-lvl monster out of the hero role (dragos, titans, etc..)
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elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 07, 2005 02:01 PM |
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Quote:
A Titan or Black Dragon hero would start with higher stats, especially health and damage. They would obviously be fighters in your army. Naturally, they would be balanced by various weaknesses: such powerful warriors would take double damage from low level creatures and not able to learn any kind of magic.
see here ellderon
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Ellderon
Adventuring Hero
Lightbringer
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posted April 08, 2005 01:23 PM |
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I think you didn't understand what I was trying to say. Pay attantion:
Gnome - resource powerhouse
Angel/Titan - fighting powerhouse
human priest/knight - useless
See the problem?
What would really work if you had:
Magic fighting powerhouse
Melee fightinhg powerhouse
Economy/diplomacy powerhouse
high-level creatures should be left out of hte hero job. How can you explain a human hero that is as powerfull as an angel hero????
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elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted April 08, 2005 01:25 PM |
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They could be clerics and have greater healing powers, or they could be great generals, and give a morale boost.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 08, 2005 01:53 PM |
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Quote:
I think you didn't understand what I was trying to say. Pay attantion:
Gnome - resource powerhouse
Angel/Titan - fighting powerhouse
human priest/knight - useless
See the problem?
What would really work if you had:
Magic fighting powerhouse
Melee fightinhg powerhouse
Economy/diplomacy powerhouse
high-level creatures should be left out of hte hero job. How can you explain a human hero that is as powerfull as an angel hero????
this to me is wierdest post ever
u want a melee powerhouse well thats the dragon or titan as u just explained
economy p/house is the gnome, also explained by u
human priest/ knight= preist is magic p/house and knight is 50% melee, 25% magic and economy, not useless at all
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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muneeb1234
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 16, 2005 05:48 PM |
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Quote:
I think you didn't understand what I was trying to say. Pay attantion:
Gnome - resource powerhouse
Angel/Titan - fighting powerhouse
human priest/knight - useless
See the problem?
What would really work if you had:
Magic fighting powerhouse
Melee fightinhg powerhouse
Economy/diplomacy powerhouse
high-level creatures should be left out of hte hero job. How can you explain a human hero that is as powerfull as an angel hero????
First thing is that the titan knights and other powerful heroes will be very uncommon, so it would be very difficult to have one in the army.
Another thing would be that the powerful heroes would be very very EXPENSIVE so only few would be able to afford them.
Thirdly, the heroes that you say are ""useless"" would be affective when with another powerful hero. These heroes could be affective in healing during the combat. These do not have to be necessarily the fighting heroes.
If you remember, in Heroes Chronicles, the Azure Dragons were far far more powerful than any other unit but the thing is that they were very uncommon. So, having them in the army did have a very big advantage but it was not impossible to beat them.
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 17, 2005 03:19 AM |
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ummm vlaad already explained how it could work and how they could all be equal above
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 18, 2005 02:20 PM |
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I agree a Titan hero would be a powerful fighter, although the starting stats wouldn't be so different.
A level 10 Elven ranger would surely beat a level 2 Titan hero, for example.
Again, the more powerful creature, the more serious disability:
An Angel hero in my picture is a fast flyer and mighty healer, a great help for her troops and heroes in her party. However, she has neither attack nor damage:
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 18, 2005 02:24 PM |
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nice pic and i see about the more severe handicaps but the angel is too disciples. could u make another plz
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted April 18, 2005 04:56 PM |
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If I wanted a hero with a personality I would play an RPG.
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John says to live above hell.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 19, 2005 01:00 AM |
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@ Phoenix:
Yeah, it's because I love Disciples! OK, I'll do something different then... soon!
@ TitaniumAlloy
But there are a lot of RPG elements in Heroes - after all, it's called "Heroes"!
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
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