|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted September 19, 2008 12:45 AM |
|
|
|
Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
|
|
posted September 19, 2008 04:43 PM |
|
|
Anyone know the current poll numbers?
I know it's a in the south but I live in Virginia which is a battleground state this year and while the Obama movement is strong, McCain is still vastly popular here. It seems like he'll pull a big victory here. Obama is doing well with young people and blacks but they are guaranteed to vote democrat anyway. The problem with those two particular groups is they frankly don't vote no matter how energized the candidate gets them. People are saying it will be different with Obama but people were saying it would be different in '04 with that whole Vote or Die campaign. People who vote are whites, asians, women over 39, and the elderly. The elderly usually vote liberal but McCain is identifiable for them so he has an opportunity to steal a chunk of that vote. Palin has locked ALOT of women and women are the ones who vote. People sometimes fail to realize that. If you want to win an election you need to appeal to white middle class women between 39-65 years of age. They're the ones who consistently vote every election in high numbers.
____________
"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
|
|
OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
|
|
posted September 19, 2008 06:55 PM |
|
|
Seems like the middle class is the only group anybody cares about this election.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
|
|
Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
|
|
posted September 22, 2008 06:53 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I think that if Obama knew that McCain was going to pick Palin, he would have picked Clinton. He was hoping that McCain would pick Romney or Pawlenty - thus Biden would have been a better choice. But McCain gambled and chose Palin, and it appears to have paid off, to a certain extent.
Both campaigns are making mistakes, though. If I were David Axelrod, I would send Hillary to attack Palin, send Biden to attack McCain, send Bill to remind everyone how good the 90s were and how the Democrats aren't necessarily tax-and-spenders, and I would have Obama focus on the positive message. If I were in charge of the McCain campaign, I would try to paint Obama as sexist, and try to maintain the status quo until October, at which point I would attack with the Reverend Wright ads nationwide.
Wow, Mvass, if I ever run for office I want you on my staff.
I find myself in need of some political discussion and no one around me, well almost no one, wants to discuss things with me. So I come back here to see what is going on. Consis and Peacemaker still around?
____________
|
|
TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
|
|
posted September 23, 2008 01:58 PM |
|
|
I think it's pretty simple.
Or at least it should be.
Any way you look at it, from any angle or aspect, USA is in a shambles. It's an absolute catastrophe.
The Republicans have been in power for the past 8 years, and I just think it's insane that people are looking to keep the Republicans in power.
"It's going to be different this time." ... Really? Are you sure? 
Quote:
Palin has locked ALOT of women and women are the ones who vote.
Which is ridiculous seeing as Palin is against equal pay, against choice, voted against Hillary on just about everything and basically opposes all of the fundamental feminist ideals... but hey, she's a woman. That's what matters.
Sure Obama will get alot of votes because he is black but at least he isn't playing on the whole African American thing.
____________
John says to live above hell.
|
|
Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
|
|
posted September 23, 2008 03:33 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Any way you look at it, from any angle or aspect, USA is in a shambles. It's an absolute catastrophe.
I think shambles and catastrophe are a bit strong to describe life here. From where I'm sitting here in the middle of the country, life isn't too bad right now. I still have a job, I'm still paying for school and gas for my car is going down in price.
Quote:
The Republicans have been in power for the past 8 years, and I just think it's insane that people are looking to keep the Republicans in power.
The Democrats have been in control of both houses of Congress for two years and they have done nothing either. Gas prices have shot up about $2/gal since the Democrats took control of both houses of Congress and only lately have they started to trickle down slowly. They made a lot of promises in 2006 after they took control of Congress and I have yet to see any real action.
Neither party does anything. George Washington was right, political parties suck and they never should have been started.
Quote:
Quote:
Palin has locked ALOT of women and women are the ones who vote.
Which is ridiculous seeing as Palin is against equal pay, against choice, voted against Hillary on just about everything and basically opposes all of the fundamental feminist ideals... but hey, she's a woman. That's what matters.
Sure Obama will get alot of votes because he is black but at least he isn't playing on the whole African American thing.
I haven't seen this out there. When did she say, "yes, I think men sould be paid more than women. Why should a woman be paid the same as a man, that's ridiculous?" And why is Palin (a Republican) not agreeing with Hillary Clinton (a Democrat) on everything is a problem? They're from different sides of the political spectrum, if they agreed all the time it wouldn't make any sense. I think the fact that Palin was mayor, then governor and now the VP candidate for a major party shows that your comment about how she is against all the basics of feminism is silly. If she was really so against change and women's rights wouldn't she just stay at home washing dishes?
____________
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted September 23, 2008 03:47 PM |
|
|
Mayor in a city (Wassila) with 6,700 citizens.
Governor in a state with 670,000 citizens and only 1 city which has more than 100,000 citizens.
I am not sure this is such a "great" political career...
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
|
|
posted September 23, 2008 03:59 PM |
|
|
Latest percents released to the press were something like: 44% - 47%. For Osama Obama.
Due to the recent economic failure, they say.
____________
|
|
Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
|
|
posted September 23, 2008 04:12 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Mayor in a city (Wassila) with 6,700 citizens.
Governor in a state with 670,000 citizens and only 1 city which has more than 100,000 citizens.
I am not sure this is such a "great" political career...
So because her constituencies were small...that's the equivalent of standing in front of the sink doing dishes? Obviously holding those government offices mean nothing, because it's only Alaska. How big does a town or a state have to be to matter?
____________
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted September 23, 2008 04:30 PM |
|
Edited by Corribus at 16:33, 23 Sep 2008.
|
Quote:
Mayor in a city (Wassila) with 6,700 citizens.
Governor in a state with 670,000 citizens and only 1 city which has more than 100,000 citizens.
I am not sure this is such a "great" political career...
I think that's a complete bunk argument. As I've said before, running any state, no matter what the population is, is not a trivial job, and Alaska in land area is over 20% of the entire continental United States. It has more coastline than all of the other US states combined. It is larger than all but 18 sovereign countries in the world. Do you think YOU could run Alaska easily? It "only" has 670,000 citizens. Do you think YOU could manage 670,000 people? Alaksa has a state budget (FY 2008) of approximately 11.2 billion US dollars, with around 15,000 employees. Do you think you could manage this amount of money?
It takes all of my time and energy to manage a classroom of 30 people and manage my own (comparatively) meager budget.
I'm not a Palin fanatic by any stretch of the imagination. But I believe in giving credit where it's due, and I think being the governor of Alaska is a pretty difficult job. No, it's not California, but to be fair, how many people have Barack Obama and Joe Biden governed, combined? Oh, right. Zero.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
|
|
posted September 23, 2008 04:48 PM |
|
|
That's exactly what my thinking is. It's not an easy job and credit should be given where it's due.
____________
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 23, 2008 10:34 PM |
|
|
Quote:
how many people have Barack Obama and Joe Biden governed, combined? Oh, right. Zero.
You know, they did, and do, run their campaigns.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted September 23, 2008 10:44 PM |
|
|
Maybe I didn't express correctly what I wanted to say with my post.
As far as I heard, republicans always point out the lack of experience Obama has in foreign affairs for example. But on the other hand, they now want a VP for a country with more than 300 million citizens, who has "reigned" a state with about 600,000 citizens.
And you really wanna tell me, being major in a city with 6,700 people is the same as being major let's say in New York? or Mexico City? or Los Angeles?
Of course a major in a mega city isn't automatically a better politician, no doubt. But he/she for sure has much more experience in political work.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
|
|
posted September 24, 2008 02:38 AM |
|
|
I'd much rather have a Vice President with little foreign experience than a President with little foreign experience.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
|
|
TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
|
|
posted September 24, 2008 04:05 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I think shambles and catastrophe are a bit strong to describe life here. From where I'm sitting here in the middle of the country, life isn't too bad right now. I still have a job, I'm still paying for school and gas for my car is going down in price.
What about insurance constraints sending women and newborn babies home with "drive-by" c-sections due to insurance constraints.
What about people too poor to afford health insurance?
What about the roads and the bridges falling apart and the government no money or will to fix them any time soon?
What about bankrupting the economy by fighting two wars on two tax cuts and two rebates, wasting the largest budget surplus EVER and leaving the US with the largest budget debt on record, importing more than you export and borrow more than you lend.
700 billion dollars down the drain.
It's a politicians nightmare.
Quote:
I haven't seen this out there. When did she say, "yes, I think men sould be paid more than women. Why should a woman be paid the same as a man, that's ridiculous?" And why is Palin (a Republican) not agreeing with Hillary Clinton (a Democrat) on everything is a problem? They're from different sides of the political spectrum, if they agreed all the time it wouldn't make any sense. I think the fact that Palin was mayor, then governor and now the VP candidate for a major party shows that your comment about how she is against all the basics of feminism is silly. If she was really so against change and women's rights wouldn't she just stay at home washing dishes?
Palin backed the Supreme Court's 5-4 majority decision that invalidated Lily Ledbetter's equal-pay lawsuit and oppose the Supreme Court's Ledbetter decision, which would severely limit wage descrimination victims ability to sue their employers (a legislation that Obama co-sponsored). In fact, she is under investigation right this minute for ethics violations.
As for the Hillary thing, I was talking more about the women who were supporters of Hillary turning to vote for McCain now that Palin has been chosen as running mate, just because she is a woman, which is absurd.
Think about it. Obviously I didn't mean that she hates women  But why did she stay silent when the Republicans trashed Hillary when she took such a prominent role in Clinton's administration? And make derogatory comments about her weight and appearance when she was running against Obama? If she really admires Hillary Clinton, why call her a whiner when she wouldn't drop out of the race?
What about when she went into labour with her 5th child, spoke in Houston, flew for 10 hours and THEN had her baby?
Also, what does she think about McCain leaving his first wife for Cindy McCain?
Palin is against science, a creationist and a homeschooler, against choice and equal pay, doesn't believe in global warming (and wants to take polar bears off the endangered species list), and is very pro-gun.
____________
John says to live above hell.
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted September 24, 2008 05:47 AM |
|
Edited by Corribus at 05:54, 24 Sep 2008.
|
@TA
Quote:
What about insurance constraints sending women and newborn babies home with "drive-by" c-sections due to insurance constraints.
Could you please point to a source?
Quote:
What about people too poor to afford health insurance?
I hate to sound callous but - why is this my burden?
Quote:
What about the roads and the bridges falling apart and the government no money or will to fix them any time soon?
Dude, the roads have sucked forever. And besides, for the most part roads and bridges are under the jurisdiction of local and state governments, not the federal government (if they're under government jurisdiction at all). I mean, you honestly think the Bush administration is to blame for potholes in the road? That's ridiculous.
Quote:
What about bankrupting the economy by fighting two wars on two tax cuts and two rebates, wasting the largest budget surplus EVER and leaving the US with the largest budget debt on record, importing more than you export and borrow more than you lend.
700 billion dollars down the drain.
I'll agree that the Bush administration has been extraordinarily wasteful with money. As a fiscal conservative, I find it horrendous. A primary reason I'm a registered Republican is because the party is SUPPPOSED to stand for conservative spending habits. Sadly, the Bush administration has been anything but fiscally conservative. I'd like nothing more than to return to a government that believes in minimal intervention into my daily life - in social OR economic issues. But sadly neither the Democrats OR Republicans seem to believe in that anymore.
Nevertheless, the state of the economy could - nay, should - be equally blamed on congress, which passes most of the pork spending in the first place, and the economy has tanked the most under the current congress, which is led by the Democrats, so you can't really lay the state of the economy at Bush's feet alone (or even in major portion). Nevermind the fact that most of the money spent on the war in Iraq was APPROVED BY CONGRESS, which, again, at the moment is held in majority by Democrats. Thus, your analysis of the problem of the economy is extremely one-dimensional and myopic, not to mention completely unfair.
And furthermore, how much government spending is going to be required to institute a state-sponsored health care program that you are obviously pining for? I'm sure the government will handle it efficiently, just like everything else. Actually, what will happen is that *I* will ultimately get to pay for everyone else's health insurance. Whoopie!
Quote:
Also, what does [Palin] think about McCain leaving his first wife for Cindy McCain?
Who cares?
Quote:
Palin is against science, a creationist and a homeschooler, against choice and equal pay, doesn't believe in global warming (and wants to take polar bears off the endangered species list), and is very pro-gun.
I agree. Palin is not my first choice for a running mate for McCain. Or my fiftieth. Her selection has made me much, much less enthusiastic about the Republican ticket.
To be fair, though, I don't really care if she's a creationist or not. How she integrates her personal religious believes into her policy decisions is what I'm interested in. Until that matter becomes clear - hopefully in the debates - I won't condemn her for personal beliefs.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 24, 2008 06:03 AM |
|
|
TA:
Quote:
What about insurance constraints sending women and newborn babies home with "drive-by" c-sections due to insurance constraints.
What about people too poor to afford health insurance?
What about insurance being a flawed concept in the first place?
What about Obama's plan making things worse?
Corribus:
Quote:
How she integrates her personal religious believes into her policy decisions is what I'm interested in.
She's a crazy. She thinks that the Iraq War is a mission from God, and her racist hate-mongering pastor (notice how this is a recurring theme in this election?) says that the troubles in Israel are because the Jews refuse to convert to Christianity.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
|
|
posted September 24, 2008 06:09 AM |
|
|
Quote:
What about insurance being a flawed concept in the first place?
Insurance schemes are proven to work well in other countries.
____________
John says to live above hell.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 24, 2008 06:26 AM |
|
|
So has living in caves. So has feudalism. That's not an argument.
What about long hospital waiting lists? What about doctors not being able to go into the medical profession because they can't make enough money?
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
|
|
posted September 24, 2008 06:31 AM |
|
|
Those are things that need to be addressed in order to make health insurance work, not scrapping health insurance altogether.
@Corribus:
Quote:
Dude, the roads have sucked forever. And besides, for the most part roads and bridges are under the jurisdiction of local and state governments, not the federal government (if they're under government jurisdiction at all). I mean, you honestly think the Bush administration is to blame for potholes in the road? That's ridiculous.
Not really.
In other countries things like this can be fixed easily and readily by the local governments, because the money is available and the system isn't so drawn out, and you don't have bridges falling down that are scheduled to be 'looked at' in 2050.
I never personally pinpointed Bush or his administration.
I'm just reminding you... the definition of madness; "Doing the same thing over and over For ever and ever Expecting a different result" 
Quote:
Nevertheless, the state of the economy could - nay, should - be equally blamed on congress, which passes most of the pork spending in the first place, and the economy has tanked the most under the current congress, which is led by the Democrats, so you can't really lay the state of the economy at Bush's feet alone (or even in major portion). Nevermind the fact that most of the money spent on the war in Iraq was APPROVED BY CONGRESS, which, again, at the moment is held in majority by Democrats. Thus, your analysis of the problem of the economy is extremely one-dimensional and myopic, not to mention completely unfair.
It may be one-dimensional but the election isn't for Congress (that is an entirely different issue), the election is for the President, so that was what I was talking about.
Quote:
And furthermore, how much government spending is going to be required to institute a state-sponsored health care program that you are obviously pining for? I'm sure the government will handle it efficiently, just like everything else. Actually, what will happen is that *I* will ultimately get to pay for everyone else's health insurance. Whoopie!
I'm not pining for anything. I have health insurance.
Sure it could **** up but what can do but hope that it can be done efficiently? Or should we just wallow in despair?
It can and has been done.
Healthcare is a priority of any government. It can't be ignored just because it will cost money.
Maybe if so much money wasn't thrown at trying to increase the welfare of the people in Iraq then it wouldn't be such a blow to the 'hip pocket' nerve.
Quote:
Quote:
Also, what does [Palin] think about McCain leaving his first wife for Cindy McCain?
Who cares?
Feminists, which is who we were talking about.
Quote:
To be fair, though, I don't really care if she's a creationist or not. How she integrates her personal religious believes into her policy decisions is what I'm interested in. Until that matter becomes clear - hopefully in the debates - I won't condemn her for personal beliefs.
Exactly, we don't know to what extent she is going to enforce this belief on others.
____________
John says to live above hell.
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
