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| Thread: Heroes V - techtree concept | |
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Fiend_Master
Hired Hero
Master of Hellish Chaos
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posted June 04, 2005 05:35 PM |
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Heroes V - techtree concept
Providing there will be 6 towns in Heroes V, I've come-up with a concept as to techtree-heroe relationships:
There will be six towns, reffered to according to their ~starting heroe~, rather then allignment: Knight, Prophet, Warlord, Acolyte, Oceanid, and Aasimar.
~Like HoMM2!
Each heroe would soon advance into one of three advanced classes, according to their secondary skills; let's take the Knight for example:
--Might secondary skill--Paladin
--Adventure secondary skill--Lord
--Magic secondary skill--Wizzard
-Until the heroe, being the natural mayor of the capitol town (providing the game has just begone), advances to one of these classes, his town is very much limited:
the Mage-Guild can only advance up to lvl 2, and only the 4 lvl 1 creatures can be trained.
~the four lvl 1 creatures each represent a tactic type:
*Peasent\Militia - strength in numbers; these weak units will naturaly be trained in greater numbers then the other lvl 1 units.
*Apprentice\Squire - slow, but very powerful; high attack, high defense, high HP, high dmg - for lvl 1 ofcourse.
*Bandit\Rogue - loaded with special abilities: stealth, magic-resistance, pillaging, etc.
*Crossbowman\Marksman - ranged shooter.
Now, providing that the heroe advanced to an advanced class (approximatly sometime during week 2), the town may advance more: lvl 2,3,4,5 units will be enabled. Lvl 2 units are single and remain the same for all towns no-matter what heroe class.
*If the heroe advanced to Wizzard (aka Magic), then the town could build and recruit: Pikeman, Golem, Mage, Genie - whom we recognized from "Order" allignment.
-In addition, the town could advance it's Mage Guild to lvl 5, and build "library" structures.
*If the heroe advanced to Lord (aka Adventure), then the town could build and recruit: Pikeman, Dwarf, Healer, Elf - whom we recognized from "Nature" allignment.
-In addition, the town could advance it's Mage Guild to lvl 4, and build "creature horde" structures.
*If the hero advanced to Paladin (aka Might), then the town could build and recruit: Pikeman, Swordsman, Balista, Griffin - whom we recognize from "Life" allignment.
-In addition, the town could advance it's Mage Guild to lvl 3, and build "heroe-item-shop" building.
When it comes to lvl 6 units, each town would choose between two of them, in a fashion similar to HoMM4:
In this case the two are:
Cavalier\Champion - champion distance bonus
Captain\Centurion - troop morale bonus
-------In lvl 7, again each heroe class has it's unit:
Firebird\Phoenix - Paladin
Giant\Titan - Lord
Magic Dragon\Faerie Dragon - Wizzard
Thus will be in every one of the six town, with these heroe classes:
(Life)Prophet
-Zealot (might)
-Emissary (adventure)
-Cleric (magic)
(Chaos)Warlord
-Barbarian (might)
-Beastmaster (adventure)
-Heretic (magic)
(Death)Acolyte
-Death Knight (might)
-Renegade (adventure)
-Necromancer (magic)
(Aqua)Murmaster
-Myrmidon (might)
-Admiral (adventure)
-Oceanid (magic)
(Conflux)Aasimar
-Planeswalker (might)
-Elementalist (adventure)
-Druid (magic)
____________________________________________________
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Death is my servant,
it paces with haste,
it cares not for your age,
for your sex, for your race.
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted June 08, 2005 02:52 PM |
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Quote:
(Aqua)Murmaster
-Myrmidon (might)
-Admiral (adventure)
-Oceanid (magic)
btw doesn't the word myrmidon have something to do with ants? unless it's a misspelling of merman or something, what's the special connection with myrmidons and water?
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Fiend_Master
Hired Hero
Master of Hellish Chaos
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posted June 08, 2005 05:32 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
(Aqua)Murmaster
-Myrmidon (might)
-Admiral (adventure)
-Oceanid (magic)
btw doesn't the word myrmidon have something to do with ants? unless it's a misspelling of merman or something, what's the special connection with myrmidons and water?
First of all, let me thank god for this reply. After 100 viewes, it's good to have someone atleast give me a single comments.
Now, to the matter at hand:
I dont know much about ants, but Myrmidons were ancient Greek elite warrior-adventurers, who traveled through the seas with Jason and Achiles. Their connection to the ocean, and adventures of it + being supreme warriors, made me think they are fit to be in this town.
But I willl gladly change the heroe class if I find a better suggestion.
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Death is my servant,
it paces with haste,
it cares not for your age,
for your sex, for your race.
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted June 08, 2005 05:40 PM |
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myrmidons...
yep... they are related to ants... since according to the legend thats exactly what they were before Zeus (if memory serves) turned them into a human army... and yes, they were the ones with achilleas...
now, how do myrmidons fit with an oceanic town? ...blame warcraft3x for that
...in the meantime i blame blizzard cause the europe wow signup servers are down 
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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Fiend_Master
Hired Hero
Master of Hellish Chaos
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posted June 08, 2005 07:05 PM |
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well, how 'bout ***Nerean***
- as in **Nereus** - father of the Nereids?
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Death is my servant,
it paces with haste,
it cares not for your age,
for your sex, for your race.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted June 08, 2005 08:45 PM |
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Nereid
Also the name of my Night Elf Hunter in WoW.
Strange how these Blizzard connections keep appearing eh?
As soon as I saw the word 'techtree' I thought of WC3.
The techtree in Heroes is the caste/capitol/upgrades in your town.
Then it's the heroes you upgrade.
This doesn't sound true to Heroes tradition, which Ubi are going to HAVE to uphold if they want to please returning fans.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Polaris
Promising
Known Hero
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posted June 09, 2005 12:24 AM |
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Overall, I would say I find your techtree idea interesting. But I find the direct link between the town and the hero both worthless and confusing. How do you handle multiple towns (or multiple heroes)? Why not let the player pick the path of hero growth and town growth independently to allow for greater strategic depth and adaptability?
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Fiend_Master
Hired Hero
Master of Hellish Chaos
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posted June 09, 2005 08:49 AM |
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Quote:
Nereid
Also the name of my Night Elf Hunter in WoW.
Strange how these Blizzard connections keep appearing eh?
As soon as I saw the word 'techtree' I thought of WC3.
[\quote]
I'm sorry, you might not be familier with Greek mythology, but Nereids are oracle-women of the ocean - a fitting creature and class for the Aquatic town.
I'm sorry about the word "techtree" maybe i should call it: "RPG-townbuilding"
____________
Death is my servant,
it paces with haste,
it cares not for your age,
for your sex, for your race.
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted June 09, 2005 11:16 AM |
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i dont get why u made this thread and told us all this.
could u tell me why???
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Fiend_Master
Hired Hero
Master of Hellish Chaos
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posted June 10, 2005 03:19 PM |
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Quote:
Overall, I would say I find your techtree idea interesting. But I find the direct link between the town and the hero both worthless and confusing. How do you handle multiple towns (or multiple heroes)? Why not let the player pick the path of hero growth and town growth independently to allow for greater strategic depth and adaptability?
!!!Multiple Towns & Heroes!!!
When starting a game with two towns but only one heroe, the heroe will automatically become mayor of the prime town, the stronger town, the town which spawned him. It is important to note that heroes can change their mayorship only before they reach an advanced class.
When starting a game with multiple heroes but only one town, the town will start mayorless.
In case of mayorless town, any visiting heroe will be offered position as mayor.
When a town's mayor dies, a new mayor can be assigned, but the town will remain might\magic-wise loyal to the last mayor.
____________
Death is my servant,
it paces with haste,
it cares not for your age,
for your sex, for your race.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted June 10, 2005 11:18 PM |
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Actually, I read one comment somewhere (forgot exactly where) to the effect you could only have one hero of each type.
If "type" translates to faction or town type, then this idea would make it rather easy to associate town growth, equipment and advancement of monsters to the one hero you have hired belonging to that faction. (And of course, if you have no hero then you have no bonuses either.)
From the screenshots we've seen heroes seems to have both the normal secondary skills, and something called "abilities".
The additional abilities could very well be benefits to creatures in your faction, or towns in your faction, and then again it could be combat related abilities.
So this I think is an idea with some merit, and perhaps something we could see in the game.
It might work for more heroes types per town as well if each town has clearly separated bonuses per hero type, so the situation where a player can have several heroes giving the same bonus will never occur.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted June 13, 2005 07:39 AM |
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Quote:
i dont get why u made this thread and told us all this.
could u tell me why???
ANSWER NOW!!!
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Fiend_Master
Hired Hero
Master of Hellish Chaos
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posted June 14, 2005 12:11 PM |
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I thought it could be cool. I know H5 is in rather "not-early" stages of development, but perhaps... perhaps...
____________
Death is my servant,
it paces with haste,
it cares not for your age,
for your sex, for your race.
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted June 14, 2005 01:09 PM |
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well i wouldnt say the stage is finishing up. too me this idea is way to much way too late
____________
'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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mr_niceguy
Famous Hero
of power
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posted June 14, 2005 01:36 PM |
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whats wrong with showing your ideas even if it's pointless. telling him just not to bother posting his idea because it's to late would be like saying to someone "stop painting ur crap at it, just give up!", it's not very nice. There's nothing wrong with a little false hope n' encouragment, thats how alot of people become great 
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted June 15, 2005 08:23 AM |
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actually no. its like telling a painter that he is doing something wrong and trying the help the painter in future. timing is everything
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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mr_niceguy
Famous Hero
of power
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posted June 15, 2005 08:42 AM |
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well they could still use the ideas in "heroes vi", so it would be like telling a painter to give up because the most recent art exibition is over.
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted June 15, 2005 11:19 AM |
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well then he shouldve posted it then. if ubi make heroes vi then i dont think they would search HC for a thread like this.
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Fiend_Master
Hired Hero
Master of Hellish Chaos
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posted July 12, 2005 12:59 PM |
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Here's the full table:
********
KNIGHT
********
lvl 1:
Peasent\Militia
Apprentice\Squire
Bandit\Rogue
Crossbowman\Marksman
-lvl 2:
Pikeman\Halberdier
Paladin
3)Murmillo\Swordsman
4)Musketeer\Gunslinger
5)Griffin\Royal Griffin
7)Firebird\Phoenix
MG lvl 3. Item shop.
University skills: War Magic, Tactics, Leadership, Learning
Lord
3)Dwarf\Battle Dwarf
4)Healer\Medic
5)Wood Elf\Grand Elf
7)Giant\Titan
MG lvl 4. Creature Horde buildings.
University skills: War Magic, Tactics, Nobility, Estates
Wizzard
3)Stone Golem\Gold Golem
4)Mage\Archmage
5)Genie\Master Genie
7)Magic Dragon\Faerie Dragon
MG lvl 5. Library building.
University skills: War Magic, Tactics, Wizzardry, Charm
lvl 6:
Cavalier\Champion
Captain\Centurion
********
PROPHET
********
lvl 1:
Messanger\Winged Messanger
Immortal\Immortal Judge
Nymph\Nymph Matriarch
Gnome\Brave Gnome
-lvl 2:
Monk\Patron
Zealot
3)Hunter\Slayer
4)Archon\High Archon
5)Pegasi\Silver Pegasi
7)Chariot\Blazing Chariot
MG lvl 3. Iem shop.
Life Magic, First Aid, Tactics, Unit Speed
Emissary
3)Frior\Black Frior
4)Centaur\Centaur Captain
5)Feathered Serpant\Flying Serpant
7)Angel\Archangel
MG lvl 4. Creature Horde building.
Life Magic, First Aid, Eagle Eye+Scholar, Logistics
Cleric
3)Synth\Cloud Archer
4)Sphinx\Chairosphinx
5)Roc\Thunderbird
7)Angel\Guardian Angel
MG lvl 5. Library building.
Life Magic, First Aid, Ressurection, Wizzardry
lvl 6:
Resistor\Spell Breaker
Valkyrie\Valkyrie Queen
********
WARLORD
********
lvl 1:
1)Goblin\Hobgoblin
2)Trogoldyte\Infernal Trogoldyte
3)Orc Berserker\Orc Chieften
4)Gnoll\Gnoll Slinger
-lvl 2:
Imp\Familiar
Barbarian
3)Minotaur\Minotaur Brute
4)Ogre\Ogre Magi
5)Cyclop\Cyclop King
7)Behemoth\Terrasque
MG lvl 3. Item shop.
Chaos Magic, Scouting, Resistance, Pillaging
Beastmaster
3)Cockalisk\Cockatrice
4)Basilisk\Greater Basilisk
5)Chimeara\Blood Chimeara
7)Green Dragon\Black Dragon
MG lvl 4. Creature Horde buildings.
Chaos Magic, Scouting, Nobility, Pathfinding
Heretic
3)Hell Hound\Cerberi
4)Inccubus\Succubus
5)Pit Fiend\Pit Lord
7)Devil\Archdevil
MG lvl 5. Library building.
Chaos Magic, Scouting, Sorcery, Intelligence
6)Hydra\Chaos Hydra
6)Efreetie\Efreetie Sultan
********
ACOLYTE
********
lvl 1:
Skeleton\Skeleton Archer
Zombie\Infector Zombie
Ghoul\Frenzied Ghoul
Shade\Shadow Guard
-lvl 2:
Ghost\Waight
Death Knight
3)Abomination\Unholy Abomination
4)Banshee\Banshee Queen
5)Witch\Narhaul
7)Bone Dragon\Ghost Dragon
MG lvl 3. Item shop.
Death Magic, Necromancy, Offense, Terror(anti-leadership)
Renegade
3)Gargoyle\Obsidian Gargoyle
4)Werwolf\Dire Werwolf
5)Giant Spider\Spider Queen
7)Wraith\Fallen Angel
MG lvl 4. Creature Horde buildings.
Death Magic, Necromancy, Stealth, Charm
Necromancer
3)Spectre\Headless Spectre
4)Mummy\Mummy Pharoe
5)Vampire\Vampire Lord
7)Reaper\Grim Reaper
MG lvl 5. Library building.
Death Magic, Nercromancy, Estates, Alchemy
6)Black Knight\Dread Knight
6)Lich\Power Lich
********
MURMASTER
********
lvl 1:
Triton\Triton Warrior
Pirate\Pirate Captain
Man'O'War\Men'O'War
Ahuizotl\Savage Ahuizotl
-lvl 2:
Myrmaid\Siren
Myrmidon
3)Locatha\Locatha Javelineer
4)Coutl\Golden Coutl
5)Hippoquatus\Hippocampus
7)Scylla\Chaos Scylla
MG lvl 3. Item shop.
Order Magic, Navigation, Artillery\Balistics, Scouting
Admiral
3)Flying Boat\Flying Ship
4)Harpy\Caledraeia
5)Naga\Naga Queen
7)Charibda\Wrathfull Charibda
MG lvl 4. Creature Horde building.
Order Magic, Navigation, Tactics, Logistics
Oceanid
3)Nereid\Ancient Nereid
4)Sea Lion\Turtle Lion
5)Waterwalker\Water-Caster
7)Kraken\Great Kraken
MG lvl 5. Library structure.
Order Magic, Navigation, Resistance, Alchemy
6)Octipus\Dark Octipus
6)Evil Sorceress\Lilipoua
********
AASIMAR
********
lvl 1:
Air Disciple\Air Elemental
Water Disciple\Water Elemental
Fire Disciple\Fire Elemental
Earth Disciple\Earth Elemental
-lvl 2:
Pixie\Sprite
Plansewalker
3)Gnome\Brave Hobbit
4)Satyr\Satyr Trickster
5)Ki'rin\War Ki'rin
7)Chamelion\Superior Chamelion
MG lvl 3. Item shop.
Nature Magic, Summoning, Archery, Unit Speed
Elementalist
3)Ice Messanger\Azure Messanger
4)Storm Messanger\Energy Messanger
5)Magma Messanger\War Messanger
7)Magic Elemental\Power Elemental
MG lvl 4. Creature Horde building.
Nature Magic, Summoning, Nobility, Eagle Eye+Scholar
Druid
3)Will-o-Wisp
4)Dendroid\Treant
5)Unicron\War Unicorn
7) Telcalipoca\Telcalipoca Panther
MG lvl 5. Library building.
Nature Magic, Summoning, Wizzardry, Sorcery
6)Enchanter\Lightning Enchanter
6)Sun Templar\Moon Templar
____________
Death is my servant,
it paces with haste,
it cares not for your age,
for your sex, for your race.
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Polaris
Promising
Known Hero
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posted July 15, 2005 11:59 PM |
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Quote:
!!!Multiple Towns & Heroes!!!
When starting a game with two towns but only one heroe, the heroe will automatically become mayor of the prime town, the stronger town, the town which spawned him. It is important to note that heroes can change their mayorship only before they reach an advanced class.
When starting a game with multiple heroes but only one town, the town will start mayorless.
In case of mayorless town, any visiting heroe will be offered position as mayor.
When a town's mayor dies, a new mayor can be assigned, but the town will remain might\magic-wise loyal to the last mayor.
Perhaps I am not giving myself enough credit, but if I have 8 heroes and 10 towns I think I would be liable to forget who was mayor where. Regardless, even if it were easy to tell who was mayor, there are further problems with the hero link:
1) I am liable to capture most new towns with just one or two of my strongest heroes. Are you expecting me to bring a "junk" hero along just to become mayor of a newly conquered town?
2) Say I have a large number of towns, do I really NEED to have 1 hero per town?
3) It sounds like a town is "junk" before it advances. We have seen limits on the number of heroes you can have in previous games. Do you think it would be better to remove the hero limit, or force a practical limit on the number of towns you own?
I think you have a good idea, but on the detail of linking towns with heroes, I think you have needlessly degraded it. The advantages of removing the link:
1) Simplicity... allows me to focus on strategy and not on who matches with what
2) More mix and match potential... Although a might hero probably wouldn't work well with a magic town, increased diversity generally makes it harder for one faction or one strategy to be the "best," (that might hero with magic troops might be the best combination against one specific strategy)
3) Adaptability... I probably can't change my hero's build, but I might want to shift to a different town type later in the game. Is there something wrong with this?
Quote:
Actually, I read one comment somewhere (forgot exactly where) to the effect you could only have one hero of each type.
This would be simple, but are you seriously advancing it as a good idea?
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
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