|
| Thread: The conundrum of Heroes 4 | |
|
Polaris
Promising
Known Hero
|
posted June 07, 2005 06:08 PM |
|
|
The conundrum of Heroes 4
It is no secret that I am not a fan of the 4th installment of the Heroes franchise. And time after time, Nival has sided with people like me. Every time there is an option between the H3 way of doing things and the H4 way of doing things, Nival/Ubi picks H3 (latest being retaliation). Yet I find myself continually dissappointed by this.
No, I am not a closet H4 lover, I really didn't like the game. But I think many of the ideas were good, even if the game itself wasn't. Nearly all of the changes from H4 are being shot down as quickly as they are being brought up, and I think this sets a bad precedent. H4 tried to move the series forward, but ironically it appears to be holding the series back.
I can see Ubi, the publisher, pressuring Nival to avoid H4 ideas as the game is perceived as having merely a vocal minority that defends it, while H3 is beloved. But that is Ubi's role- as they are financing the game they should care about money. But Nival should be sharp enough to recognize that the reason one game is loved and the other is derided is not because H4 had bad ideas, but merely because H4 was poorly executed. Nival should incorporate at least SOME ideas from H4 just to show us that they are up to the challenge of moving the series forward, rather than backward. And they should convince Ubi that focusing solely on H3 ideas will stifle innovation, thus cannibilizing future profitability.
What do you guys think?
|
|
HellFast
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted June 07, 2005 10:15 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I can see Ubi, the publisher, pressuring Nival to avoid H4 ideas as the game is perceived as having merely a vocal minority that defends it, while H3 is beloved. But that is Ubi's role- as they are financing the game they should care about money.
i'm not necessarly agreed
I don't think that is 100% money...
maybe 60-80% money and 20-40% make pleasure at most part of fans which are 80% H3 (20% H4)
____________
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
|
posted June 08, 2005 12:00 AM |
|
|
I agree with you for most of your oppinion.
It's hard to say what went bad in the overall H4 at least statistically, for people have dismissed it as playable for different reasons. I don't play it because of the graphics and atmosphere, although I thing the skill tree and magic was far better than H3. (and I don't like that H5 returns to 3 level system and fewer magic schools for that matter) I'm sure others may have exactly contrary opinions.
So what I can't understand are the polls of Nival asking how many heroes games have I played, what's my favorite town or school of magic; these aren't serious questions and cannot help improve the game. They should really poll about the important (and sometime detailed) aspects of the game. The fow was an exception I think.
I think they really don't know where they're headed, they only think they do. And they most probably try to carboncopy H3 hoping in an easy success. i don't think we're so easy to fool.
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
|
posted June 08, 2005 02:06 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I don't play it because of the graphics and atmosphere, although I thing the skill tree and magic was far better than H3. (and I don't like that H5 returns to 3 level system and fewer magic schools for that matter) I'm sure others may have exactly contrary opinions.
Not me. Totally agree.
Magic in H4 was far better and far more balanced than in H3. I think the too rigid system of magic alignments (and from here, learning of spells) can be improved though. Tech tree was superior to H3, although again, i think it requires and offers a lot of space for further development.
other H4 features: mobile guards - no; cravans - yes, army without heroes - no; two choices for creats - yes, but for some levels only; prisons - yes; sieges - deff no; no more chaining - good; retaliation - not sure. i think thats about it. its more acceptable ideas from H4 than i expected at first thought.
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
|
posted June 08, 2005 04:18 AM |
|
|
and so it begins...
...i guess it had to come to this... once people realized homm5 has a very good chance of being a 3d homm3, people saw past their previous misconceptions and saw homm4 for what it was... a lousy implementation of many great ideas (along with a few lousy ideas)
...and no, no closet homm4 fan here... i liked the game since day 1... even if the sterile feeling i kept getting made me play it way less than homm3 (of course one has but to look at the so-called "elves" to actually name me a hero for standing this atrocity for that long)
...anyway, nival and ubisoft are not to blame for this... we, the fans of homm, are ...if we had given homm4 a chance despite all of its (numerous) flaws, the future of the series would look less bleak than a step forward in the past
____________
You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted June 08, 2005 05:53 AM |
|
|
Lo
And the Lord heard when Lith-Maethor spoke. And it was good. And when God spaketh unto me he said: Listen to Lith-Maethor, for My will is done and you shall be entertained when HOMM5 is released. I then knelt in prayer thanking the Lord my God for His great humble grace and the path of good Heroes of Might&Magic games.
Amen.
____________
Roses Are Red And So Am I
|
|
gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted June 08, 2005 11:22 AM |
|
|
|
lol, i think it sounds like lith and some others have just read posts with a filter that censored out all statements that said there was something positive about homm4. and now that filter was suddenly removed.
|
|
Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
|
posted June 08, 2005 11:52 AM |
|
|
hehehhe...
okay, truth be told i did overdramatise things... but seriously, what percentage of HoMM4 related posts, in this board or others, was to provide some critisism and what percentage was to simply state "HoMM3 rocks, HoMM4 sucks" dismissing all good parts of it?
as for consis' follow-up... not sure if i should be amused or offended... 
____________
You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
|
|
vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
|
|
posted June 08, 2005 07:32 PM |
|
|
Quote:
And the Lord heard when Lith-Maethor spoke. And it was good. And when God spaketh unto me he said: Listen to Lith-Maethor, for My will is done and you shall be entertained when HOMM5 is released. I then knelt in prayer thanking the Lord my God for His great humble grace and the path of good Heroes of Might&Magic games.
Amen.
That Lord doesn't really know what He's doin', don't listen to what He says. Now Lord has becometh an Entertainer, cool..... he must be a God of Might and Magic without Religion
Errrr, Contra-Amen (?)....
____________
MANE, TEKEL, FARES
|
|
Polaris
Promising
Known Hero
|
|
posted June 09, 2005 12:04 AM |
|
|
Quote:
...i guess it had to come to this... once people realized homm5 has a very good chance of being a 3d homm3, people saw past their previous misconceptions and saw homm4 for what it was... a lousy implementation of many great ideas (along with a few lousy ideas)
...and no, no closet homm4 fan here... i liked the game since day 1... even if the sterile feeling i kept getting made me play it way less than homm3 (of course one has but to look at the so-called "elves" to actually name me a hero for standing this atrocity for that long)
...anyway, nival and ubisoft are not to blame for this... we, the fans of homm, are ...if we had given homm4 a chance despite all of its (numerous) flaws, the future of the series would look less bleak than a step forward in the past
You H4 people always sound so high-and-mighty, which is why H3vH4 arguments got so dogmatic (unconstructive) in the first place. Of course there are also dogmatic H3 lovers and one side fuels the other. I admit there are problems with H3- thats the foundation of this topic and most of my others.
But anyway, my realization was not about H4 in the first place. It was about Nival/Ubi, and that they will consider hardly any of the changes from H4. They couldn't all have been bad.
And one last point, I would hardly hold fans responsible for criticizing a bad game. Nor is it the fan's responsibility to have good ideas/suggestions for a game under development. That falls squarely on the shoulders of the developer. If they listen to fans when the fans are wrong, then that is their mistake, not the fans. Besides, they seem to have sided with the most fanatic H3 fans, and ignored both moderates and H4 fans.
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
|
posted June 09, 2005 02:25 AM |
|
|
I wouldnt agree that the frame of the game is entirely adopted from H3. We still dont know almost anything about skills and magic, so maybe precisely these two aspects will be the improved versions of H3.
Furthermore, when we speak about developers, I've always wondered, what is their professional profile in fact? Are they simply computer programers with questionable creativity, or there are some other people which are specifically responsible for the gameplay decisions? Which makes them what... artists, Ph.d gamers, or as it seems most likely to me - marketing agents?
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
| |
|
|
