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| Thread: Re-Enlistment |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted August 05, 2005 06:57 PM |
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So I was riding in a cab some 6 years ago. I was preparing to go into the marine corps felt anxious, excited, and wanting to broadcast it to the world.
The driver just so happened to be a former Iraqi soldier. And he wasn't very impressed with my decision.
His feeling was that those who go into the volunteer for the military are more motivated by the fact they don't think they can hack it on the outside world than anything else.
His words rang a little too uncomfortably close to me. So I question your decision at this stage of your life. It is obvious that you're drifting. You have little direction save this drive to be this knight in shining armor.
What's your real reason for this Consis? Are you trying to escape familial responsibilities? Are you hooked on your comp and can't break the habit? Does the simple(not necessarily easy) life style that the military offers appeal so much that you're willing to make your wife a widow and your child fatherless?
What could possibly prompt you to give up your freedom to take orders yet again? And to go into a warzone no less?
Don't be distracted by Valeriy's mixture of pinko pacifism and naive idealogy. Though I am less than thrilled about our support of the Afghan warlords, the Taliban had to go. And their last vestige needs to be squashed.
The country you'll be going to is populated by tribal peoples with primitive and savage tribal sensibilities. You will see and possibly do things that will scar your soul for the rest of your life. And god forbid you survive to come home and take it out on your wife and children.
If your decision is final, then good luck and godspeed.
If you find yourself wavering but interested in still serving explore your options. You can save lives without putting yourself so close to harm's way. You owe your family that much.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted August 05, 2005 08:48 PM |
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The_Gootch,
You sound a lot like my wife. She also thinks I'm going to die and that the experience might 'scar my soul' as you so eloquently described it. And you've got just as much right to say such things as she does. Well actually she has a bit more weight in my decision-making process than you(you understand).
All that talk about not hacking it in my current position is rubbish. I'm not some 18 year old highschool grad with a gung-ho glory-hogging mentality. I'm 30 years with a wife of 5 and three children. I'm not going full active duty either. I'm enlisting in the Guard so that I can be contracted to the nearest base to my house and so that I don't do much more than a single rotation or maybe only two. If I sign for 6 years then I figure that'll give me two full rotations total. Each one is 18 months. Otherwise I'm a 'weekend warrior'. Guard works one weekend a month and 2 weeks in the summer. That's not even close to full active duty. And I can also get a better G.I. bill amount by re-enlisting. I haven't used the old one yet which is far out-dated as economic inflation goes. As I said in the letter to all the important people in my life, I believe I can do both successfully.
Also, I'm still waiting on the recruiter to get back to me my background check. That's what he's doing right now. When he does, I go straight to asking a woman to be a nanny(a dear close friend of the family). If she says no and I can't find anyone to cover for me on the 18-month rotation then I can't re-enlist. It's really all riding on the nanny at this point. I've already asked but she is refusing to give me an answer until the recruiter gets back to me with the go-ahead from the background check. It's been about 2 weeks so far. We'll see what happens.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Korejora
Promising
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posted August 07, 2005 01:42 AM |
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Quote:
I've heard a lot of meaningless idealistic arguments ranging from 'stop killing trees by using so much paper' to 'don't shake my hand in today's bacteria-ridden world'.
I can understand you thinking the latter is a paranoid belief (especially considering how unsusceptible the hands are to bacterial invasion) but the former has a point, in my opinion. If one uses less paper, the need for it decreases, and less trees are used for it. If everyone, therefore, follows this, then a great deal of trees that would otherwise be harvested for paper are left standing. Call me a tree-hugger, but I see this as a positive thing. However, anyone who uses a phrase so... accusatory as 'stop killing trees by using so much paper' is most likely only saying this because they have been told that 'using paper kills trees' and that 'we needs the trees to lives'. The statement in itself seems to not realize that you need a great deal of people to follow this idea (however valid it may be) before it is effective.
Quote:
I've never swayed a single soul to change even one opinion. People don't listen when I speak and probably for good reason.
I believe the fact that you are speaking to us is in some way disproof of that. I know it's not face to face, but pray don't tell me that it has no value. As a matter of fact, you have changed my opinion before, and though I spare the details of it, I assure you that I am at least one soul who you have swayed to change one opinion.
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That's the best part. 
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted August 07, 2005 02:02 AM |
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Uh . . .
Quote:
As a matter of fact, you have changed my opinion before, and though I spare the details of it, I assure you that I am at least one soul who you have swayed to change one opinion.
I'm not sure how to respond to that. You didn't say much except that I changed your opinion. I'm hoping it was for the better. If it was for the worst then I rest my case.
And as for my skill with diplomacy, you need look no further than the way I poorly handled my frustration/confusion with bort. Such is one of many flaws I carry with me through real life. I often learn my lessons too late; long after the damage has been done.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Korejora
Promising
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posted August 07, 2005 03:17 AM |
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Quote:
You didn't say much except that I changed your opinion.
That is all I intended to say. You said you had never swayed an opinion. I pointed out an opinion you had swayed. If it makes you feel better to know, I do believe it was for the better. 
What I intended by telling you of your accomplishment is that your alleged lack of skill in diplomacy may not be quite as real as you think it is. Many times you have made contribution to the Heroes Community that I am sure have swayed opinions. Your tendency to edit posts that I have heard of (I haven't seen you do it to excess) redoubles the proof of care and compassion that you put into your communication with us. Having this much care for the way you speak to other people is an important skill in diplomacy, which many do not have, so I have to say that you have superior diplomacy skills to a mentionable number of people.
As for that incident, although I didn't see it, it doesn't sound like an unusually feeble reaction. Being calm and composed when you are experiencing frustration and confusion is not something you should expect of yourself. Strive for it, certainly, but don't consider yourself greatly flawed for lack of it. It is simply an undeveloped ability. Learning your lessons long after the damage has been done is more normal than you seem to think. What would be something to frown upon is if you never learned the lesson at all, or even never tried, which is what I can accredit many people to.
Something important I need to say: Just because the 'lesson has been learned' doesn't mean that you can apply it at every instant you need to. Believe it or not, like any other skill - playing a musical instrument, excelling in a sport, anything - diplomacy, and all that comes with it, takes practice! You need to practice realizing when you become frustrated or confused, or whatever the problem is, and then practice handling it in the fashion you strive for. It seems like something that you would simply know after you figured it out the first time, but it is actually derived from experience. It is like in war, I suppose, when you have to recognize what situation is occurring and how to handle it, and if you don't handle it correctly, then you must (should?) accept the consequences, learn from your experience, and try to do better in the future. It's all you can do. Well, I suppose you could give up on it altogether, but then you wouldn't make a very good commander.
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That's the best part.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted August 07, 2005 05:28 AM |
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Wisdom and Understanding . . .
Thankyou Korejora. Thanks for listening. Thanks for understanding. And thanks for offering such good advice. It's a good thing, learning from others, and I am fortunate to be blessed with good company that offers advice of the same merit.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted August 26, 2005 06:47 PM |
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Clear
The recruiter called me this morning, not too long ago. He says I've been cleared for re-taking the ASVAB test and physical evaluation/examination. I've a M.E.P.S. date for September 10th(Saturday). One thing he told me to be sure not to do was to not attend wearing a "F*** Iraq" t-shirt. It made me laugh pretty hard. I couldn't believe anyone would do that but the recruiter says people actually come in with political t-shirts all the time.
I'm acutely aware of the nature and role/responsibility of a United States soldier. Politics goes to utter privacy and duty becomes paramount. If anyone has ever seen any sort of national address made by the President, you might notice the handful of generals sitting in the front row don't behave like the other people in the room. You might notice that they are allowed to clap but not stand. And on some subjects they are told to not clap at all. I don't know about other countries but here in the U.S.A. we believe our entire military should be ultimately governed by a civilian. That's why we have a secretery of Defense under the President.
Anyway I just wanted to let you folks hear the news of my biggest hurdle being cleared. If I hadn't been cleared then I wouldn't even be allowed to take a physical examination. It all had to do with the way I got out 7 years ago. What with my wife and all, well that's another story. Some of you guys have been asking me if I've heard yet. I won't say names(privacy builds confidence of trust between friends). Anyway there it is for everyone to form their opinions.
Thanks for listening.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted August 26, 2005 07:03 PM |
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Thanks for the update, keep them coming
*rushes off to send Consis a **** Iraq T-shirt for the big day*
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 27, 2005 11:40 PM |
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QP applied for your second post on page one
Hi Consis,
Great post and topic. Even though I strongly disagree with what you are doing, I gave you a QP for the fine thinking you have done about your present situation, and for sparking a very interesting discussion.
I don't have time right now to say all I want to say as it's the week-end  but I'll post another time with my thoughts on the subject.
Take care,
Conan
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted August 29, 2005 04:17 PM |
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The Fool's Errand
It's done. After almost losing my marriage, my wife and I finally came to an agreement that would keep me from entering the military once again. Of the many different important reasons why I felt so compelled to re-enlist, the absolute top of the list was based on a conversation I had with my wife around 2-3 months ago. I recall it very well. We were driving home from the store when I finally opened up to her and said that I was very interested in studying for a degree in English and writing. I said that I wanted to "go to college". And then she said, "what do you mean 'go to college'?". And I replied, "you know...go to college; get my degree". After saying that, she immediately responded with vigor saying, "ok then where's the money going to come from? Who is going to pay for it?" I then replied that I had intended to use a portion of our own money. After hearing this she became enraged and declared that I wouldn't get a penny. So I then argued that even though I was staying home, I was still entitled to half the money she was earning from her job. She rather obstinately and dramatically protested with screaming, name-calling, and hitting the nearest inanimate object. At this point I simply sighed in silence and shook my head in disregard of what was clearly a child-like tantrum.
We've been together for many years. It has been about 7 years. For most of that time, I've given full control of and use of all our joint earnings. When I saw her react the she did, I simply saw it as utterly infantile. I saw it as her inability to control herself and act like an adult. At that point I'd thought she surely has had control of our joint account for too long. I thought it was time for me to reign in my half to use for my own furthering of education.
After that episode I had decided not to tamper with the issue, thinking that it would surely destroy our marriage. I felt cornered and with very little options without having the money for college. So I then decided to fall back on the only skills I have ever known. A school teacher friend of mine called it "tried and true". It was something I knew I was capable of and I had plenty of documents to prove it. I was sure that this was my only option.
The weeks passed on and one day I came to sit at my computer. After turning it on and reading my daily news reports, I stumbled across the latest proposal from the pentagon asking congress to raise the recruiting age a few more years to 42. Upon reading this I made my decision. I felt this was a good time to re-join and help when help was the most needed.
Since that time I've been arguing, yelling, crying, hurting, defending, and all the more to my wife on why I had to do this. And for a very long time, we would fight followed by the dead silence of stark disagreement. Divorce was slowly becoming a very real consideration by both of us. She was absolutely unwavering in her disagreement with me possibly getting sent to a war that she whole-heartedly disagreed with. She would continually express her hatred for President Bush and how it was somehow his fault for my decision to re-join. She was very insulting, judgmental, and deliberately combative in her arguments. (that's one of the reasons I love her)
After fighting so long, yesterday morning came. It was Sunday and we were getting up and getting ready to go to church as a family. (We do that together because we both agree it helps our children know that we love each other. We also think it's a good place for them to learn good morals. And I go to learn to forgive more often) After getting all dressed-up and ready I walk back to our room and see her laying on the bed in tears. I act confused even though I know the root of the problem. I ask her why she isn't ready to go and she responds, "Why, what's the point? It doesn't matter. Nothing matters anymore. Nothing matters!" I knew then that she had finally reached her breaking point. I knew I was hurting her more than she was hurting me. I felt awful and guilt-ridden. So then I began to talk to her in a more gradual and calm manner. I tried to explain how I felt that I had no other option. I told her that she said I wouldn't get a penny from her for college classes. She looked at me confusingly and asked what I was talking about. I reminded her of the conversation we had a long time ago about me "going to college". She then drifted for half a minute, recalling the time, before finally responding the same way she did last time. She said, "Yes I remember! You're not getting a penny. You think you can just leave us for any old reason!" But that last part came as a puzzle to me. I responded with, "what the hell are you talking about woman? Haven’t you heard anything I've been telling you for the past several weeks? I'm not trying to leave anyone! I just wanted to take some college classes!" She responded saying, "Yeah! And you think you're going to live in a dormitory, go full-time, and leave me with these kids to work and do everything else!" After hearing her say this I finally realized the problem. I told her that wasn't the case at all. I said that I wanted to "go to college" but after hearing say her peace, I realized it meant something different to her. I said, "when I said 'go to college' I meant take some classes. You know? Go to college and get a degree? Those people who are taking classes at home are going to college?" When I told her this she looked at equally as puzzled as I originally was. Then she said, "That's not what 'go to college' means. 'Go to college' means you are going away to college!"
As you can easily imagine, she and I realized that we had a very serious miscommunication. In fact our entire marriage was put on the line because we misunderstood each other. She of course remarked that she was perfectly fine with me using our money to take a few classes as long as I wasn't going off and away leaving everything behind. I'll tell yah, I've never come so close to losing my wife and kids. She was going to leave me for sure if I had joined. There is no doubt in my mind. I was frightened but I felt cornered. I felt it was the only way to get the money and prestige that I was looking for in order to eventually get my degree in English. It was an absolute loner-crusade too. I've been to the moon and back searching for people that might help me with the kids. And not a single person, neighbor, friend, or family member would help me based on their disagreement with the damn war over in Iraq. It became my fuel to complete the task because I believe nothing in life worth having is easily obtained. And let me tell you it was damn near impossible for me to go back in what with everything and everyone against me. I was sure it would be a good thing because of all the obstacles.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Khayman
Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
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posted August 29, 2005 04:39 PM |
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From personal experience, Jake, I believe you made the right choice. I am happy for you. Good call.
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted August 29, 2005 08:01 PM |
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Edited By: Consis on 29 Aug 2005
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Thanks Khayman, Conan, and Leo_Lion
But I still can't believe how many people were against it. I mean I seriously went door to door at one point. Folks were ready to say their peace about the war and everything. I thought I was being a hero and everything. But the more I held my chin up, the more people told me to my face that I was a complete idiot! I didn't do anything wrong you know? But it sure didn't seem like that the way some people were carrying on about me leaving the kids for some war we weren't supposed to be fighting.
I learned a serious lesson. I sit here, watch the kids, flip through cable channels, and play on the computer all within the confines of my own house. And nobody gives a damn. But the second I step out that door for wrong reasons, folks won't hold back in telling me what's on their mind. I guess it's something I've learned about people in general. I think people are relatively peaceful and pretty much keep to themselves until issues like the war walk up and ring the door bell. They don't slam the door and say that they don't want to talk about it either. If you just happen to be standing there then guess what; you're getting an earful whether you like it or not. And that especially goes for the wannabe foolhardy young men of soldier age too. People don't normally say it, but I now know that they are definately thinking it!
So here I am right where I started with a tad-bit more wisdom. Just a little something for a young fella like myself to chew on whilst I go about my daily routine.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted August 29, 2005 08:18 PM |
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Consis, when I read your account of your discussion with your wife about college, it reminded me of what I said to you about fear when we spoke on IM She is just afraid of losing you, that kind of love can never be a bad thing.
I am so relieved to hear you will be staying, and pursuing your writing. I'm especially glad that your stories won't further be jaded by the misery of war, and that you can continue with the stories you've begun.
Be happy in your decision
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 30, 2005 05:45 AM |
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Edited By: Conan on 29 Aug 2005
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Consis,
One point that I'd like to make is that when you are doing a good job, some people will tell you aswell, just not as many. As in this thread, Khayman came straight out and told you that you made the right decision.
And so do I. I'm happy you saw things in a different light now.
On to the next point: The reason you created this thread was to hear about other people's take on the choice you were faced with. An international take, that is But I have a feeling you are that kind of person; a person that seeks what others think before he acts... a person that is open to critism. You know, others could learn from you aswell!
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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