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| Thread: Haven |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted August 11, 2005 10:50 PM |
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Haven
Haven
Introduction:
“For Honor, Order and Duty.”
Aka: The Knights of the Light
Associated colors: light blue, white and gold
Worship: Elrath, the Dragon of Light, and its first servants - the Angels
Core philosophy: “Law & Order” rather than “Good & Mercy”
Country / kingdom: The Holy Griffin Empire
Capital city: Talonguard
Key symbols: The “holy sun”, the griffin
Description:
A feudal Holy Empire, the strongest realm of Ashan.
It is a kingdom of medieval knights and monks, with prevalent access to “Light / Life” Magic and “Angelic” elite troops.
The Empire chose the Griffin as its symbol. Tamed griffins are used by the nobility as “flying hounds”, and sometimes as mounts.
On the battlefield, Haven troops are known to be extremely resistant, relying more on the mighty power of brutal force than on the delicate art of magic. The heroes of the Haven faction will develop skills and abilities to support the hurricane of steel and fury that will rush into the enemy’s rank.
Brief History:
The origins
> 3 YSD: Birth of the Falcon Empire
Falcon the Great unifies the human kingdoms (founding the empire that will one day become the Haven faction). A prophecy tells that the Falcon line shall endure as long as the world does.
> 28-40 YSD: Wars of Fire
- First great demon incursion
Most of the Angels perish during these wars. The survivors take refuge in the Falcon Empire, which is increasingly turned away from the Dragon of Air – Sylath, and toward the Dragon of Light.
> 48 YSD: the Falcon Empire becomes the “Holy” Falcon Empire
– Founding of the Free Cities of the East
Emperor Brian Falcon gives absolute power to the Church of the Dragon of Light. The Human kingdom is renamed “Holy Falcon Empire”. Dissent grows among many citizens who resent being forced to abandon their faith in Sylath. Many will leave the Empire’s territory to found the Free Cities of the East.
The modern ages
> 843 YSD: 4th Eclipse - Falcon’s Last Flight
The Demons storm the capital of the Falcon Empire and massacre the royal house. As soon as the Demons are repelled, fighting breaks out as the various noble houses attempt to claim the throne. Duke Ivan of Griffin conquers the bloody crown. The Empire is renamed “Holy Griffin Empire”.
> 951 YSD: 5th Eclipse - War of the Gray Alliance
Demon armies are confronted by a combined force of Haven Knights allied with two other factions. Emperor Alexei Griffin pursues the Demons into the very underworld, and is killed. His soul is rescued by a mysterious and legendary knight known as Tieru, and bound up in an artifact called the Heart of the Griffin. Alexei’s son Nicolai, aged 6, ascends the Imperial throne.
> 969 YSD: 6th Eclipse - Queen Isabel's War
An eclipse not forecast on any calendar grips the Empire in a panic. The Demons emerge in force and march towards Haven’s capital.
This war will be known as Queen Isabel's War and is the topic of Heroes V’s campaign.
Creatures:
Peasant > Conscript
Click here for bigger image
---Peasant
The peasants are the basic infantry of the Holy Griffin Empire. Those troops are weak and not efficiently trained, but they are numerous. On top of that the peasants are an important source of revenue, as they pay taxes and bring additional income to their master every day.
---Conscript
The conscripts are the basic infantry of the Holy Griffin Empire. Those troops are still quite weak, but they received basic training in combat. As a result they may confuse their enemies in the melee and stun them if their attack is successful.
Archer > Marksman
Click here for bigger image
---Archer
The archers and marksmen are key in battle to weaken the enemy ranks before melee combat. The archers of the Griffin Empire excel in the art of drowning the enemy under barrages of arrows. They have a special shooting ability that allow them to attack not a single target but a large area. All creatures within the attacked area suffer half the normal damage.
---Marksman
The marksmens’ crossbows are more powerful and precise than the archer bows. When shot at close range, a crossbow bolt will skewer the enemy’s armor and inflict maximum damage by resetting his Defense value.
Squire > Knight
Click here for bigger image
---Squire
The squires and knights are the backbone of the Haven forces. Protected from enemy shooters by their large shields, they are also resistant and can sustain enemy charges while other troops will maneuver to take the enemy from the rear. Thanks to their mastery in the art of melee combat, they may stun their enemies.
---Knight
The knights are the elite infantry of the Haven Empire. These seigneurs are expert in long, intense melee combats. Not only will they defend themselves, but their large shields will also provide shelter from enemy projectiles to the other Haven troops on the battlefield.
Griffin > Imperial Griffin
Click here for bigger image
---Griffin
A magical-born mix of lion and eagle, the Griffins are the fastest troops of the Haven faction and also its emblematic symbol. They excel in skirmish attacks, swooping down on enemy ranks from afar. They are quite weak when forced in a real melee, but they will always retaliate on enemy attacks nonetheless. Additionally the Griffins sharp eye makes them immune to blinding spells.
---Imperial Griffin
The Imperial Griffins have been intensively tamed for the art of war. Gifted with all abilities of their races, they have the special ability to fly high over the battlefield, to then strike a key area in a deadly dive before evading. That makes them the perfect weapon against shooters of all kind.
Priest > Inquisitor
Click here for bigger image
---Priest
The priests are the keepers of the true faith in the Holy Dragon of Light.. As priests, their primary task is not to enter the melee, but rather to summon the wrath of their God on enemy troops. However, when forced into hand-to-hand combat, they will prove valorous warriors.
---Inquisitor
Usually secluded in retired Temples, the Inquisitors are fanatical clerics whose task is too ensure that the Order of Elrath remains pure from any soiling or deviant influence. As such they will fiercely fight any non-believer (basically any non-Haven creature). Like priests, they will rather attack the enemy from afar. On top of that, they have the unique ability to cast protective and support spells on their allies...
Cavalier > Paladin
Click here for bigger image
---Cavalier
The cavaliers and paladins are the ultimate guardians and elite troops of the Holy Griffin Empire. Mounted on powerful horses and heavily armored, they are at their best when they charge on enemy troops from afar.
---Paladin
The paladins are the ultimate warriors in the Holy Griffin Empire. Their life is dedicated to their faith in the Holy Dragon of Light, and all their combats are devoted to its glory. They are blessed with the vital power of Elrath, and have the unique ability to cure any injured ally on the battlefield.
Angel > Archangel
Click here for bigger image
---Angel
The angels are the incarnation of Elrath on Ashan, and as such they are the most ultimate representation of his power. These creatures of light are fierce in combat and their attacks are always deadly. An angel cannot be killed; if its substance is endangered, it will become a pure spirit again and rejoin its master.
---Archangel
The archangels are the highest ranking creatures within the divine hierarchy of Elrath servants. Their souls are those of the most valorous and faithful heroes of the Ancient times. As lieutenants of Elrath, the archangels are blessed with the supreme power of resurrecting the champions who died in combat, giving them another chance to serve their Lord.
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ChimTheGrim
Adventuring Hero
That guy ...
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posted August 14, 2005 12:37 PM |
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So far. I have to say Ubisoft and Nival are doing a great job keeping the HoM&M feel with the return of a lot of the creatures form heros 2 and 3.
I love how they changed a little here and there, but that they also kept many of the cool units/creatures.
The Preist for example, is a natural addition to the Haven/castle town. Yet, I'm glad they kept the marksmen and cavaliers.. and even brought back the "Paladin" in a way.
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To My Fellow Americans, look into this (watch the bottom videos first): http://www.barackobama.com/tv/
The people are funding his campaign more so than corporate lobbyists.
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MuadDib
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 14, 2005 06:17 PM |
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A note, special abilities listed here are only "educated guesses" by fans 
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Fabrice
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vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted August 14, 2005 07:36 PM |
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Quote:
A note, special abilities listed here are only "educated guesses" by fans
You are right, of course. I'll edit my post to make it clear.
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drlucifer
Adventuring Hero
The Surgeon of Death
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posted August 14, 2005 09:48 PM |
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Time to get analyzing...
Quote:
ID card
"For Honor, Order and Duty"
Associated colors: light blue, white and gold
Worship: Elrath, the Dragon of Light, and its first servants - the Angels
Core philosophy: "Law & Order" rather than "Good & Mercy"
Country / kingdom: The Holy Griffin Empire
Capital city: Talonguard
Key symbols: The "holy sun", the griffin
Description:
A feudal Holy Empire, Haven is the strongest realm of Ashan. It is a kingdom of medieval knights and monks, with prevalent access to "Light / Life" Magic and "Angelic" elite troops. The Empire chose the Griffin as its symbol. Tamed griffins are used by the nobility as "flying hounds", and sometimes as mounts. On the battlefield, Haven troops are known to be extremely resistant, relying more on the mighty power of brutal force than on the delicate art of magic. The heroes of the Haven faction will develop skills and abilities to support the hurricane of steel and fury that will rush into the enemy's rank.
BRIEF HISTORY
The origins
3 YSD: Birth of the Falcon Empire
Falcon the Great unifies the human kingdoms (founding the empire that will one day become the Haven faction). A prophecy tells that the Falcon line shall endure as long as the world does.
28-40 YSD: Wars of Fire First great demon incursion
Most of the Angels perish during these wars. The survivors take refuge in the Falcon Empire, which is increasingly turned away from the Dragon of Air - Sylath, and toward the Dragon of Light.
48 YSD: the Falcon Empire becomes the "Holy" Falcon Empire
Founding of the Free Cities of the East Emperor Brian Falcon gives absolute power to the Church of the Dragon of Light. The Human kingdom is renamed "Holy Falcon Empire". Dissent grows among many citizens who resent being forced to abandon their faith in Sylath. Many will leave the Empire's territory to found the Free Cities of the East.
The modern ages
843 YSD: 4th Eclipse - Falcon's Last Flight
The Demons storm the capital of the Falcon Empire and massacre the royal house. As soon as the Demons are repelled, fighting breaks out as the various noble houses attempt to claim the throne. Duke Ivan of Griffin conquers the bloody crown. The Empire is renamed "Holy Griffin Empire".
951 YSD: 5th Eclipse - War of the Gray Alliance
Demon armies are confronted by a combined force of Haven Knights allied with two other factions. Emperor Alexei Griffin pursues the Demons into the very underworld, and is killed. His soul is rescued by a mysterious and legendary knight known as Tieru, and bound up in an artifact called the Heart of the Griffin. Alexei's son Nicolai, aged 6, ascends the Imperial throne.
969 YSD: 6th Eclipse - Queen Isabel's War
An eclipse not forecast on any calendar grips the Empire in a panic. The Demons emerge in force and march towards Haven's capital. This war will be known as Queen Isabel's War and is the topic of Heroes V's campaign.
Ahh, backstory. It seems that the human town is no longer the "good" town that it has been in the past. It is instead a "holy" town and seems to be more religious-centered than it has been in the past. The town seems to be based on values like nobility and pride (hence the griffin) rather than just being the human / castle / life town. Clearly, there will be some deep stuff for each town, an interesting shift from past games...
Hmmm... "brutal force" was something I always associated with the barbarian / stronghold / might town, but it seems like the humans have it as a characteristic now as well... this isn't exactly a positive characterization the way it is made either. "Steel and fury"- no, this is not your Homm2 human town, no sir.
Basic summary of the history: mighty empire becomes feudal religious empire, demons are annoying but always crushed by Haven. One emperor is named Nicolai- an Erathian connection, perhaps? I know that a new universe is being created for this game, but I find this interesting.
All right, on to the units.
Quote:
Haven creatures
EDIT: Special abilities are not confirmed.
level 1: Peasant (tax payer) > Militia Guard(stun)
level 2: Archer (multiple ranged attack) > Marksman (close range)
level 3: Squire (resist charge) > Knight (resist charge / magic resistance ?)
level 4: Griffin (unlimited retaliation) > Royal Griffin (dive-bomb)
level 5: Priest (spellcaster) > Inquisitor (spellcaster + melee)
level 6: Cavalier (charge) > Paladin (remove curse)
level 7: Angel (sustain life) > Archangel (resurrection)
All pictures (including the concept art) can be found here.
Peasant / Militia Guard: Right away, a shift from the "plastic past" of former Heroes games. This unit is fat, poorly equipped, has bad teeth, etc. However, I believe that it will continue the tradition of HOMM peasants / squires being cannon fodder, eating up enemies' retaliations, and standing in front of archers to keep them from getting hit.
Archer / Marksman: "close range"? In H4, didn't the crossbowman have "long range" meaning that he suffered little range penalty? And now we have a "close range" crossbowman? Oh well it is the only range attacker and a level 2 one at that; I get the feeling that Haven armies will have to charge at their opponents across the battlefield due to their lack of range troops. The unit actually looks pretty good and orderly.
Squire / Knight: The shield is a bit big... but it seems that here we have a decent level three melee unit that can stand toe to toe with other lvl 3 melees and maybe even fight up a few levels.
Griffin / Royal Griffin: We've got a flyer! They excel in skirmish attacks (?) but seem to be more about speed than strength. My guess is that they will make great units for attacking opposing shooters or suicide units. The Knight's description mentions other Haven troops manuevering to attack enemies from the rear- that sounds like a job for Griffins. Could there maybe be a tactical bonus for this?
Priest / Inquisitor: If these guys don't fight, why the big hammer? Once again, combat spells will be based on strengthening their own forces... probably these guys will be in the rear of the fighting. Note that they are willing to fight "non-believers." Intolerance seems to be a big part of the human town.
Cavalier / Paladin: Cavalry. They have lances and once they get within range of the enemy line they will charge. There's really nothing to analyze here.
Angel / Archangel: "attacks are always deadly" "cannot be killed" "the supreme power of resurrecting the champions who died in combat"... yes sir, this is a level seven unit. Hopefully the balance between Angels and other units is better than it sounds. The speculations on their special abilities are interesting, but could it really be that as soon as an Angel is defeated in combat it returns to its recruiting ground? What if it is a random monster? Of course, if this is true then Haven will need A LOT OF MONEY but if they get it they will be pretty unstoppable. Rich maps will be tilted so much towards Haven it would be tough to balance the game. Btw, if peasants pay taxes, this is a source of money... so maybe take back what I said about cannon fodder...
So we've got a good spellcaster, a low-level shooter, a good, an okay, and a bad melee troop, a speedy but weak flier (Griffins are faster than Angels?) and a possibly ultimate unit. Moderately balanced town, although in most battles they will have to cross the field to combat their enemies rather than waiting for the attack. Let's hope Priests can cast Mass Haste.
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Doctors are not necessarily your friends.
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lord_crusader
Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
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posted August 17, 2005 01:31 AM |
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Hey fabrice good to see you here too , I don't think you visit this forum
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2XtremeToTake
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 17, 2005 01:53 AM |
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Where do u see fabrice??
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I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.
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Angelspit
Famous Hero
Warrior of the Heavens
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posted August 17, 2005 02:10 AM |
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted August 17, 2005 03:16 AM |
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OK, a few words:
1. Developers have made a real effort to give a historical background to the game. That itself is good, but is also bad for several reasons: it takes energy that could be used for other aspects of the game, and it might persuade young ones to start learning "homm" history instead of the real history at school. I'm sure that more children have heard of Mordor than Persepolis, for example, and many might believe that Uruk is just a Tolkien stronghold. Anyway, the rest (me included) will disregard the history and just play the game.
2. The symbols: griffin banner ?! Well, I'm puzzled here, but are we talking of a population worshipping the "Dragon of light" but gathered as "Holy Griffin Empire"? That seems far-fetched to me, but well, I may be shallow and this would be sort of situation like the Akhenaten of Egypt who switched religion from Ra to Aton. Although I don't believe developers ever thought about that.
3. From what I know, total moon eclipses are quite frequent, am I to believe that each time the demons invade the Earth? If I was that wizard I would not have sacrificed myself for that. Not a very good prison, if you ask me.
4. Creatures now:
I like militia, archers, griffins.
But:
a) Knights: rather hunchbacked to be the backbone of an army, allow me... 
b) Inquisitor: Several questions give me nightmares - why does he wear boots (maybe in Russia those are fashionable this season?), why does he have a saint halo, from what I know in reality that would be impossible, and why, my God, a hammer? The idea of priest invoking the divine wrath was fine, they had to spoil it...
c) Paladins: now, they had to overdo it by putting wings on the head of the horse...
Why should he be able to dispell curses and not the priest?
And for Muad'dib, a word: you can tell this is a french endeavour, the cavalier (blue) wears the english lion and the upgraded paladin the french lily. I guess French can never get over the past...
d) Angel: as we know it. Complete turn-off.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted August 17, 2005 07:26 AM |
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Art looks great. Creatures have character, and that's a very big thing. 
One minor detail: on concept art angel does not have feet, but on in-game screenshots there are feet. I just think the feet should be changed to be a bit more angelic because when I noticed them my whole impression of the angel dropped 
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted August 21, 2005 01:37 AM |
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Quote:
It seems that the human town is no longer the "good" town that it has been in the past. It is instead a "holy" town and seems to be more religious-centered than it has been in the past. The town seems to be based on values like nobility and pride (hence the griffin) rather than just being the human / castle / life town. Clearly, there will be some deep stuff for each town, an interesting shift from past games...
What shift?! Order, honour and law have been ever-present trademarks of the human towns, not particularly the goodness. Maybe your intuitive understanding of humans as “good” is what confuses you now. The way I see it, there are no ideological strayings from the tradition. “Hurricane of steel and fury” being an overly poetic metaphor; i see no problems with the “brutal force” bit as well, because armours, weapons and all that army-centralized culture is just that. Humans (in castle/haven) have never really excelled in magic so far, and staying truthfull to the preceding examples, they wont in this one too.
The rest of your freelancer comments also lead to that to bring judgements about the balance of the town and even effectiveness and applicabillity in various situations of the creatures. All that based on… their looks only. But feel free to speculate, no? 
Quote:
That itself is good, but is also bad for several reasons: it takes energy that could be used for other aspects of the game, and it might persuade young ones to start learning "homm" history instead of the real history at school.
You arent serious, are u? Whats next, banning the use of names as “Erathia, Axeoth” to save the future of geography as a subject?
As for the first reason, u r out of track. To write those histories and invent the universe for the game takes one person with a vivid imagination and few hours of office work to type all that.
Also i don’t see problem with demons attacking during eclipses. How do u know how often that phenomenon happens on their planet, whichever it is?
Militia - Yikes! Calories! A lucky thing is he looks more sturdy and less bellied, so that softens the whole impression
Rating: 6 out of 10
Archer – Very good.
Rating: 8 out of 10
Knight – Very very good.
Rating: 8 out of 10
Griffin – Now, at first glance, looks ideal. But i think my abillity to play with this town in the future will be hampered by the fact that i will never upgrade this beast, only due to the terrible eyesore its superior canned version would be.
Rating: 8 for the unupg. / 5 for the upg. out of 10
Inquisitor - Wow, i think this “creature” belongs with the Inferno. Yep! Looks like an ideal candidate to work on their torturing machines. This guy is a metaphor for unmatching appearance and job, his RL equivalent being Schwarzeneger in the role of a governor. Wow, I now see where the artist got his inspiration from. Or maybe it is the hip-hop subculture, with the massive chains and crosses they wear? The mystery remains.
A ray of optimism though - the unupgraded version on the screenshots looks comforting.
Rating: 3 out of 10
Paladin – Classy, dignified, powerful.
Rating: 9 out of 10
Angel – Who? The manga hermaphrodite with Baroque clothes and a two meter long sex toy? No, there is no angel in the game.
Rating: 2 out of 10
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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DragonMaster
Known Hero
Master of Dragons
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posted August 21, 2005 06:49 PM |
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My ratings:
(That I'm new to this site doesn't mean I don't know about HoMM)
Peasant/Militia Guard.
I dislike fat people in the military,
and there's no such thing as a fat farmer.
5-10
Archer/Marksman.
Good thing they dropped the crossbow for the Archer.
It should be for veterans(Marksmen)only.
Looks pretty cool.
7-10
Squire/Knight.
Squire looks better than H3's Swordsman.
Knight looks worse than H3's Crusader(thet did their best, tho).
6-10
Griffin/Royal Griffin.
Beautiful. The upgrade could be much better tho.
7-10
Priest/Inquisitor.
Arnold Schwarzenegger turned catholic!!
Lose the Halo and it's an Ogre.
2-10
Cavalier/Paladin.
The best of Haven.
The spell-casting is strange tho.
8-10
Angel/Archangel.
They messed it up again.
Why can't there ever be an Angel that looks like an Angel?
5-10
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Fire is not a dragons only strength, so don't come to close to it's mouth, when he is not flammable.
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted August 21, 2005 08:38 PM |
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vladpopescu:
Quote:
And for Muad'dib, a word: you can tell this is a french endeavour, the cavalier (blue) wears the english lion and the upgraded paladin the french lily. I guess French can never get over the past...
Not only that, but what's the issue with the Inquisitor wearing a cross? Sure, I don't mind Christians being portrayed as evil butcherers (), but this is fantasy! I mean, how difficult could it be to come up with a symbol they could use that hasn't been used by a RL group most educated people know of?
Hopefully, they'll remove both the French Lilys, the English Lions and the crosses in the finished version.
Amd stop whining about the Angel. It looks perfect; everyone knows that Angels are genderless. At least these ones doesn't have beards...
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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DragonMaster
Known Hero
Master of Dragons
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posted August 21, 2005 08:44 PM |
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Ok ok.
But look, Angels are holy beings. Holy.
And they give them a sword Nightmare from Soul Calibur 2 would be jealous of.
And that halo-thingy is what they used to indicate Jesus.
I'm sorry, but I feel they just can't get it right.
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Fire is not a dragons only strength, so don't come to close to it's mouth, when he is not flammable.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted August 21, 2005 08:57 PM |
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Quote:
Amd stop whining about the Angel. It looks perfect; everyone knows that Angels are genderless. At least these ones doesn't have beards...
We have different views of perfection...
Or mabe I should just say that the angel is perfectly horrible.
What about the beards? I know of many depictions of bearded archangels.
If I am to scale the angels, they get a perfect 0 out of 10, because therer is not a single thing that is well done about them. They are perfect, in a way...
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted August 21, 2005 09:45 PM |
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Taste's like arses, like we say here in Norway...
Anyway, I suspect this has been said before, but if so, here it comes again: I just connected some things about the Angel and the sword. The sword is an Irish cross, right? And the hilt of the sword is at what would/should have been the top of the cross, right? Doesn't this mean that the Angel is holding the cross upside down?
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted August 21, 2005 10:41 PM |
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Quote:
And the hilt of the sword is at what would/should have been the top of the cross, right? Doesn't this mean that the Angel is holding the cross upside down?
Then all swordsmen do...
In addition, the Devil holds the cross in the right way, doesn't he?
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DragonMaster
Known Hero
Master of Dragons
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posted August 21, 2005 10:44 PM |
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Quote:
And the hilt of the sword is at what would/should have been the top of the cross, right? Doesn't this mean that the Angel is holding the cross upside down?
Well, I believe they started holding it upside-down,
when they discovered that if they held it right,
it would hurt their hands sooner than it would hurt the enemy.
____________
Fire is not a dragons only strength, so don't come to close to it's mouth, when he is not flammable.
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DragonMaster
Known Hero
Master of Dragons
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posted August 21, 2005 10:49 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
In addition, the Devil holds the cross in the right way, doesn't he?
But the Devil isn't supossed to carry a cross.
The creators were confused, I guess.
____________
Fire is not a dragons only strength, so don't come to close to it's mouth, when he is not flammable.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted August 22, 2005 04:59 AM |
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Quote:
The creators were confused, I guess.
Yes, but don't tell them that, they might get upset and do an even worse job for the add-ons.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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